So when the media covered the "protests" by Native Americans at the Indians home opener over the past several years, did any of them seek out Native Americans who were OK with the name and logo?  The answer is no.  A real news organization would have done that.   Sadly, they now only cover the side that fits their agenda.

 

 

Edited July 26, 20213 yr by skiwest

10 minutes ago, skiwest said:

So when the media covered the "protests" by Native Americans at the Indians home opener over the past several years, did any of them seek out Native Americans who were OK with the name and logo?  The answer is no.  A real news organization would have done that.  It is sad that media outlets only promote one side of an issue nowadays.

 

Over the past few years I've seen quotes in the media from the Sockalexis' descendants saying they were ok with the name as long as the Wahoo logo was gone, as well as several editorials in support of the Indians name, as long as there was money funneled to scholarships and education. 

 

If native groups in support of the name were more vocal then they would have garnered much more attention.  The fact of the matter is there just wasn't that much support from native groups in favor of keeping the name.  

3 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

 

Over the past few years I've seen quotes in the media from the Sockalexis' descendants saying they were ok with the name as long as the Wahoo logo was gone, as well as several editorials in support of the Indians name, as long as there was money funneled to scholarships and education. 

 

If native groups in support of the name were more vocal then they would have garnered much more attention.  The fact of the matter is there just wasn't that much support from native groups in favor of keeping the name.  

There was almost none. Given the team's use of the exceptionally racist "Chief Wahoo" up until a couple years ago, their complete disconnection from any Indigenous tribe or nation, and their refusal to acknowledge the racism of the team and mascot, they haven't scored any points in favor of keeping anything associated with Indigenous people. They had decades to prove otherwise, and did nothing. Good riddance. 

Reading some rumors there be some trouble with the name due to a local roller derby team that is already called the Guardians?

Yeah somebody posted the roller derby team's website/blog a few pages back. Hey a free million bucks or so to add to the roller derby team's budget!

Is the issue just the conflict of websites or the team's names in and of themselves? It used to be common to have sports teams in the same city with the same name.  Has anything changed in that regard besides the need to buy the roller derby team's website?

I would assume and hope (though I may be wrong) that the Indians front office would have had, ya know, lawyers and what not, who check into stuff like that beforehand.

The Indians/Guardians are registered both as an LLC and as a corporation. Maybe the LLC does some things and the Corp does other things? I'm assuming that's why. In any event, both CLE entities (LLC and Corp) have filed name changes effective 7/23/21:

 

CLEVELAND INDIANS BASEBALL COMPANY, INC.  is now:  CLEVELAND GUARDIANS BASEBALL COMPANY, INC.  

CLEVELAND INDIANS BASEBALL COMPANY, LLC is now: CLEVELAND GUARDIANS BASEBALL COMPANY, LLC

 

Here's the name change document for the Corporation:  https://bizimage.ohiosos.gov/api/image/pdf/202120402696

On 7/26/2021 at 12:01 PM, E Rocc said:

 

If one believes in luck and jinxes, and most baseball people do, it should be noted that the team hasn't done as well since they took the Chief off the uniforms.

It's not a talisman

18 hours ago, Pugu said:

The Indians/Guardians are registered both as an LLC and as a corporation. Maybe the LLC does some things and the Corp does other things? I'm assuming that's why. In any event, both CLE entities (LLC and Corp) have filed name changes effective 7/23/21:

 

CLEVELAND INDIANS BASEBALL COMPANY, INC.  is now:  CLEVELAND GUARDIANS BASEBALL COMPANY, INC.  

CLEVELAND INDIANS BASEBALL COMPANY, LLC is now: CLEVELAND GUARDIANS BASEBALL COMPANY, LLC

 

Here's the name change document for the Corporation:  https://bizimage.ohiosos.gov/api/image/pdf/202120402696

 

The team is still called the Indians for the rest of the season.

19 hours ago, Pugu said:

The Indians/Guardians are registered both as an LLC and as a corporation. Maybe the LLC does some things and the Corp does other things? I'm assuming that's why. In any event, both CLE entities (LLC and Corp) have filed name changes effective 7/23/21:

 

CLEVELAND INDIANS BASEBALL COMPANY, INC.  is now:  CLEVELAND GUARDIANS BASEBALL COMPANY, INC.  

CLEVELAND INDIANS BASEBALL COMPANY, LLC is now: CLEVELAND GUARDIANS BASEBALL COMPANY, LLC

 

Here's the name change document for the Corporation:  https://bizimage.ohiosos.gov/api/image/pdf/202120402696

 

1 hour ago, E Rocc said:

The team is still called the Indians for the rest of the season.

 

They can operate however they want; companies use DBA's all the time. But legally the corporation is now CLEVELAND GUARDIANS BASEBALL COMPANY, INC.  The link above is the filing with the Ohio Sec of State. 

Some first hand perspective from the marginalized group might be helpful here since I haven't seen it in the thread yet (sorry if I just missed it, would gladly hear from you). Also includes some good historical context which also seems sorely needed...

 

Vox.com: A Native American on the long-overdue Cleveland Indians name change to the Guardians.

 

https://www.vox.com/first-person/22596477/cleveland-indians-racist-name-change

More about our famous men's roller derby team!

 

 

"Earlier in the week, it appeared that the baseball team and the roller derby team were coming to some sort of agreement, or were in talks, as both remained pretty mum on the subject. However, the MLB team filed a trademark application on July 23rd, and the roller derby team followed suit on the 27th. It goes deeper than that, as the baseball team filed a trademark in April in Mauritius, which it will claim gives it priority...."

 

https://deadspin.com/all-they-had-to-do-was-check-clevelandguardians-com-and-1847403859

That Deadspin article is, for the most part, garbage (surprise surprise). 
 

The Guardians are a $1 billion+ business, and anyone who thinks that the organization (and it’s trademark lawyers) weren’t well aware of all of the copyright and trademark implications of the chosen name change — let alone not realize that clevelandguradians.com was already in use — has an exceedingly quaint view of how a baseball team in the 21st century operates. 
 

This week’s Crains has an actually researched, sourced, and journalistic look at this issue. Deadspin is about as reputable in such arenas as…Triv. 

The baseball club, contrary to some online speculation after the announcement, was aware of the Cleveland men's roller derby team that goes by Guardians and has a website tied to the nickname. But the Indians, after consulting with their legal team, were "very confident" that there wouldn't be any serious roadblocks in moving ahead with the name unveiling, multiple sources told Crain's.

 

A look inside 'massive undertaking' that was switch from Indians to Guardians

 

 

Edited August 4, 20213 yr by brtshrcegr

7 hours ago, brtshrcegr said:

The baseball club, contrary to some online speculation after the announcement, was aware of the Cleveland men's roller derby team that goes by Guardians and has a website tied to the nickname. But the Indians, after consulting with their legal team, were "very confident" that there wouldn't be any serious roadblocks in moving ahead with the name unveiling, multiple sources told Crain's.

 

If it's someone's nickname, there's no issue. The Cleveland Guardians is not the Cleveland Guardians' nickname---its their (legal) trade name, registered with the state of Ohio in 2017 and first used, according to the 2017 filing in 2013. (Their legal name is CLEVELAND MEN'S ROLLER DERBY LLC).  See the official filing here:   https://bizimage.ohiosos.gov/api/image/pdf/201700403198.

 

Trade names are real. The TRADE NAME "Cleveland Indians" was just filed on 7/23/21 by the "guardians" baseball team--see here:  https://bizimage.ohiosos.gov/api/image/pdf/202120402726

 

If trade names aren't "real" then you or I could just start using "Cleveland Indians" today (since the baseball team legally abandoned it in July 2021) and do whatever we wanted with it--and yes I know the team is still playing today with that name.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Pugu said:

 

If it's someone's nickname, there's no issue. The Cleveland Guardians is not the Cleveland Guardians' nickname---its their (legal) trade name, registered with the state of Ohio in 2017 and first used, according to the 2017 filing in 2013. (Their legal name is CLEVELAND MEN'S ROLLER DERBY LLC).  See the official filing here:   https://bizimage.ohiosos.gov/api/image/pdf/201700403198.

 

Trade names are real. The TRADE NAME "Cleveland Indians" was just filed on 7/23/21 by the "guardians" baseball team--see here:  https://bizimage.ohiosos.gov/api/image/pdf/202120402726

 

If trade names aren't "real" then you or I could just start using "Cleveland Indians" today (since the baseball team legally abandoned it in July 2021) and do whatever we wanted with it--and yes I know the team is still playing today with that name.

 

There is probably more bark than bite here.  When it comes to trademarks (and trade names and service marks), in general the legal question is whether there is a "likelihood of confusion" in the mind of the average consumer.  How likely is the Cleveland Guardians roller derby consumer going to be confused over their relationship to Cleveland Guardians major league baseball and vice versa?  (Similarly, you can buy "Ballpark" mustard at Progressive Field and "Ballpark" hot dogs (mustard came first) and everyone knows the difference between owners Bertman's and Sara Lee, respectively.)

 

The roller derby's earlier use of the Guardians name, for roller derby, probably means that the baseball club cannot expand into roller derby in the future.  Which seems unlikely anyway. 

^That's why the whole "the World Wildlife Fund made the World Wrestling Federation change their name" thing sounds totally made up by Vince. CBS Personnel Services and the Ford Modeling Agency would be totally out if so.

now this is a name that would have resonated. I guess the problem is that no one under, say, 60 (or older??) would have understood the reference🤔

 

^ oh i can see it now in the ball park. 

 

"where should we sit?"

 

"ovah dey!"

 

you know its really a shame there is only like 15min of footage of ernie anderson as ghoulardi. considering the guy basically inspired punk rock pop culture with the dead boys, pere ubu, the cramps, devo, and etc. etc. from there. you are right evd ghoulardi and that history are so little known these days.

 

who would be the mascot? froggy no doubt. ha.

Cleveland Indians strike $435 million public-private deal for Progressive Field renovation, 15-year lease extension

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2021/08/cleveland-indians-strike-435-million-public-private-deal-for-progressive-field-renovation-15-year-lease-extension.html

21 hours ago, mrnyc said:

^ oh i can see it now in the ball park. 

 

"where should we sit?"

 

"ovah dey!"

 

you know its really a shame there is only like 15min of footage of ernie anderson as ghoulardi. considering the guy basically inspired punk rock pop culture with the dead boys, pere ubu, the cramps, devo, and etc. etc. from there. you are right evd ghoulardi and that history are so little known these days.

 

who would be the mascot? froggy no doubt. ha.

I guess most people, if they know Ernie Anderson at all these days, know him as the official voice of the ABC network, where he worked for years after moving to LA and no doubt was far more lucrative than his stint as Ghoulardi. re Pere Ubu: A couple of years ago while taking a poll worker training class (I know, you probably didn't think there was any training involved in this as an NYC voter), two of the instructors were originally from Ohio, a woman from Columbus and a guy from Parma. When I told them where I was from, the Parma guy, apparently a big Pere Ubu fan, excitedly noted that Suma Studios in Painesville (actually located in a remote wooded area outside of town) was where they did their recordings! (Black Keys also did an album there) I just kept thinking, how many Ohioans work at the NYC Board of Elections? (I think Suma went out of business after the owner died a couple of years ago. I could be wrong) Sorry to go off topic

Edited August 5, 20213 yr by eastvillagedon

Saw this on a retail store in N Olmsted.  The whole Guardians name and logo is fine with me. I would have preferred  a change in colors but whatever. I do hope there is at least one alternate  logo with  a more traditional  Guardians  image. Maybe on one of the caps.

latest power rankings — tribe is #17 — that’s about right for a .500 team:

 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/32004851/mlb-power-rankings-week-18-where-all-30-teams-stand-playoff-races-heat-up

Now that’s some crazy baseball history:

 

 

Does anyone know when they closed the Gateway Plaza to vehicular traffic?

 

I tried to go to the Indians game last night, but it took two hours to get off the Innerbelt bridge and down Ontario St to the Ontario and Huron Rd intersection. All but the far left lane of Ontario St heading north was a parking lot. I had planned to enter the Gateway Garage from Ontario. The cops directing traffic just followed the traffic lights, so they were useless. By the time I got to the Huron Rd intersection it was already the 7th inning, so I went home.

 

I only go to one or two games a year and I walk to the stadium since I work downtown. I drove this time because the office is closed due to the pandemic. Next time, I'll take the RTA red line.

 

 

There was a concert at the RoMoFiHo last night. I can’t remember where, but I did see some PSAs over the last week advising of altered traffic patterns and to expect congestion and use RTA. 

The Cleveland Indians are the only team in MLB to be no hit three (3) times on one (1) season. Congrats, Dolan.

I get that Cleveland is a smaller market team and that the pandemic was brutal on their finances.  Having said that, if the Dolans can't at least shell out enough money for

a "decent' lineup, I really wish they'd sell the team (locally, of course.).  I saw the Indians in person this week and their lineup is probably the worst I can remember.  There's

really only a few guys that are legitimate threats to get on base with any proficiency.  The result is being no-hit three (nearly four or five) times this season and being non-competitive

against teams like the Twins.  I also feel no sense of urgency from the team whatsover - but that's probably just the lack of talent manifesting itself.   And just imagine where

this team would be had they been able to retain the pitching they did have just a year ago.  Here's hoping that

they make a couple moves in the off season to somehow upgrade the lineup.   

 

Dolans are going to sell in a few years. Several ownership groups are stepping up to take a minority share which would put them at the front of the line to acquire the team. I've written about it several times recently in the context of real estate development around the ballpark. 

9 hours ago, CleveFan said:

I get that Cleveland is a smaller market team and that the pandemic was brutal on their finances.  Having said that, if the Dolans can't at least shell out enough money for

a "decent' lineup, I really wish they'd sell the team (locally, of course.).  I saw the Indians in person this week and their lineup is probably the worst I can remember.  There's

really only a few guys that are legitimate threats to get on base with any proficiency.  The result is being no-hit three (nearly four or five) times this season and being non-competitive

against teams like the Twins.  I also feel no sense of urgency from the team whatsover - but that's probably just the lack of talent manifesting itself.   And just imagine where

this team would be had they been able to retain the pitching they did have just a year ago.  Here's hoping that

they make a couple moves in the off season to somehow upgrade the lineup.   

The only reason that this team has been competitive over the years is that they have had some success in drafting talent and getting some decent returns when they do one of their regular "fire sales", especially in finding pitchers.  When the time nears where bigger contracts are coming into the picture, the discussions start of when is <fill in name here> is going to be dealt.  It also becomes tiresome hearing the Dolans (or their mouthpieces) are "patting themselves on the back" when one of their former players (either dealt or allowed to sign with another team) doesn't have success with their new team.  

 

For fans, why bother getting "invested" with the team or particular players when the owners won't do so themselves.  Granted at this time, there isn't a reasonable hope for getting into the post season.  A month or so ago, I wouldn't get caught up in the hype of that possibility.  Too many holes to plug and there was little expectation of "pulling the trigger" on deals to get the needed pieces. 

 

It is very stale to keep on hearing ownership and management falling back on the "small market" excuse.  Other teams succeed in "small markets".  If they cannot play on the major league level, then they need to get out.  They seem to be content in charging major league prices for minor league talent.  The pandemic is also another excuse.  The financial issues have gone back much longer than the pandemic.

 

On a related thought, I'm wondering if some of the injury problems that pitchers have suffered is in some way related to the lack of hitting talent on the team.  I know that pitchers do have their share of ailments, but with the Indians, the injury problems seem worse.  One cannot help if mentally, pitchers realize they have to be at the absolute best to have a chance for winning.  Do they try or push excessively hard to give the team a chance win?  Is this leading to some of those injuries?  How does it feel for someone like Plesac to be on the losing end of THREE no-hitters?

Not sure about the cause of the injuries. Maybe their conditioning program (or lack of one) needs to be looked at.

6 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said:

Not sure about the cause of the injuries. Maybe their conditioning program (or lack of one) needs to be looked at.

I just have to wonder.  It has to be on the mind of every Indians pitcher.  They can take the mound knowing that they may have another game of minimal hitting and run support.  With the potential of every single run meaning the difference of winning or losing, in their mind they could have no margin for mistakes.  Throw a little harder/faster.  Put more break on the ball.  Make sure that curve is just right.  Do that regularly and too much, fatigue sets in with muscle and ligaments suffering.  Being a major league operation, they should know how to have a proper conditioning program in place.  It is harder to get inside the heads. 

we went to the game at yankee stadium saturday. funniest thing — a guy suddenly got up in the 5th or whatever and started yelling ef cleveland ... and immediately the tribe erupted. then he did it again ... and same thing. the crowd finally yelled at him to shut the ef up you freakin jinx. i was howling with laughter. i looked around in the 6th and he was long gone lol. otherwise, beautiful day at the ballpark and well worth the bargain $10 ducats.

 

and of course here on sunday the tribe spanks the crap out of the yankees again in the rubber match, plus toronto and boston win, so i can go into work monday with a smile and haa haaaa the yankee fans.

here are a few gameday pics

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

welp so the white sox won the rubber match and now the season is wound down to only two more meaningless three games series' -- with the terrible royals and the more terrible rangers. let's go out on a winning wave tribe!

At this point, I just want to finish above .500 -- which is still doable!

the tribe ends the season ... and its existence as the indians ... a loser at 80-82.

 

what a strange, but hopeful time for the organization and us fans.

 

imo the thread header should not have been changed until today, but that is water under the bridge now!

 

 

 

fans weigh in:

 

 

As the team finishes their tenure as the Indians, fans hope to see them come back strong after the off-season as they begin their time as the Guardians.

 

“Hopefully still keeping Francona, the manager, our pitching get better,” said fan Joseph Nailor.

 

“I think if we make the right off-season moves, we’ll be good,” said Austin.

 

 

more:

https://fox8.com/sports/clevelands-always-been-a-winner-fans-weigh-in-on-name-change-stadium-upgrades-as-indians-season-ends/

 

 

Let's hope the pitching staff can stay healthy next season.  It would be nice if they could get another big bat (or two) in the lineup so they don't have to rely on Jose and Franmil constantly.  But I don't expect Dolan to open up his checkbook.

37 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said:

Let's hope the pitching staff can stay healthy next season.  It would be nice if they could get another big bat (or two) in the lineup so they don't have to rely on Jose and Franmil constantly.  But I don't expect Dolan to open up his checkbook.

Dolan would be wise to.   The surest way to make everyone forget the "Indians" (and buy new Guardians swag)  is to make a run at a World Series with some big free agents.   Strike now before the fans get any more grumpy about the matter.  

 

Indians looking for new hitting coach.

 

https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/mlb/indians/ty-van-burkleo-wont-return-indians-2022/95-1c0bd67c-be91-4464-9a69-c48e05db05b0

If you were looking for the Tweet of the Week, here it is

 

 

 

not good -- the cubs hired away the india...err, guardians asst. gm:

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10014952-carter-hawkins-officially-hired-as-cubs-gm-after-14-seasons-with-cleveland

indians logo being removed --

 

 

Indians logo being removed from Progressive Field scoreboard in Cleveland

Nov 2, 2021

Associated Press

 

 

CLEVELAND -- The Indians began removing the team's scripted logo atop the giant scoreboard at Progressive Field on Tuesday as they transition their name to the Guardians.

 

Crews started dismantling the letters, beginning with the "I" on the 80-foot-long sign. It's another step in the offseason change for the Major League Baseball team, which has been called the Indians since 1915.

 

The removal of the letters is expected to take several days. After cutting into the first letter, workers had to delicately remove a section to be lifted with a crane between two of the ballpark's toothbrush-like light towers.

 

Windy conditions forced the crew to shut down after a few hours.

 

Once completely removed, the sign will be placed in storage while the team evaluates options for a permanent spot for it.

 

In July, owner Paul Dolan joked that it was too big to fit in his basement.

 

 

more:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/32533821/indians-logo-being-removed-progressive-field-scoreboard-cleveland

And meanwhile in Atlanta, they are planning a parade.  I'll bet there will be a lot of Native Americans in attendance.

 

Edited November 3, 20213 yr by LibertyBlvd

8 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said:

And meanwhile in Atlanta, they are planning a parade.  I'll bet there will be a lot of Native Americans in attendance.

 

 

Get over it.

On 11/3/2021 at 1:03 PM, LibertyBlvd said:

And meanwhile in Atlanta, they are planning a parade.  I'll bet there will be a lot of Native Americans in attendance.

 

 

 

some fan, you forgot to add it was the braves first world series win since ... 1995  🤬🦃

Wait, there was a baseball season??

1 hour ago, mrnyc said:

 

 

some fan, you forgot to add it was the braves first world series win since ... 1995  🤬🦃

And we know who they beat in that World Series. Surprising that the Braves only won it all once in the 90s-00s - I think they won their division 14 years in a row.