July 31, 200915 yr The first comment on the cleveland.com message board for the Brian Robiskie signing is: "DOLAN SUCKS"
July 31, 200915 yr Prince made them pay 8 mill though, when they wanted to pay 6. To keep him around they ponied up. That at least gets keeps him around a few more years. Im just arguing that point because we would have paid Lee equivalent money next year. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. All i know is Cincy pays two of their crap starters a ton of money. It just doesnt make sense for me We can agree to disagree... but Dolan "ponied up" to extend grady, CC, Lee, Victor, and others. Milwaukee just did what the indians have done countless time, avoided arbitration with a multiyear deal. They signed prince to a 2 year deal that saved them a whopping one year of free agency. Dolan has an 82 million dollar payroll. That should be more than enough to compete. Teams with consistently lower payrolls than ours still compete. We are in this mess because our front office stinks. They have made an incredibly poor use of 82 million dollars and now we as fans have to suffer the consequences.
July 31, 200915 yr Prince made them pay 8 mill though, when they wanted to pay 6. To keep him around they ponied up. That at least gets keeps him around a few more years. Im just arguing that point because we would have paid Lee equivalent money next year. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. All i know is Cincy pays two of their crap starters a ton of money. It just doesnt make sense for me Dolan has an 82 million dollar payroll. That should be more than enough to compete. Teams with consistently lower payrolls than ours still compete. We are in this mess because our front office stinks. They have made an incredibly poor use of 82 million dollars and now we as fans have to suffer the consequences. I dont remember where i read this, but I read an artical Tuesday on ESPN.com and it quoted a NY media person in the article. Basically it said Lee would be traded (already happened) as well as Martinez (maybe Boston) before todays deadline, and that Dolan was going to try to lower payroll to $55 million for next season.
July 31, 200915 yr Probably because he lost about 30 mil this year (as I've heard). He also got his clock cleaned last year, and I'm sure they know that with or without lee / martinez, attendance is going to be abysmal next year after the last two seasons. Hell no one even showed up in 2005 until the last series against Chicago and that team was fantastic.
July 31, 200915 yr ESPN 850 Cleveland says that Victor Martinez is on his way to Boston and that the deal is done. I didn't see the news posted elsewhere.
July 31, 200915 yr I am calling for an economic boycott until Shapiro is sent packing. I think Dolan is horrible, too. He has allowed this mess to transpire. Absolutely an abomination. I thought I would never see this day, and was foolish enough to believe that the mid to late 90's weren't just an aberration. It honestly makes me want to vomit. Plus, Shappy's eye for talent is atrocious. The guy made one good trade (Grady) and everyone still thinks he's a genius. He's an freaking a-hole who has perfected Orwellian logic and talks to the fans like we're a bunch of morons. I HATE HIM. Look for any journeyman who had a career threatening injury this year, and I will guarantee that will be Shappy's blockbuster acquisition. See: Foulke, K Pavano, C Nixon, T Wood, K
July 31, 200915 yr By the way... I was in favor of trading victor. And this is why I have come to detest professional sports. I'm sorry, but part of the fun is having an attachment to the players. Victor was the heart and soul of this team. He cried after the loss to the BoSox, and wants to remain an Indian. To look at this from simply a dollars and sense standpoint is to deny the bond fans develop with players. I look at it the same way with old, historic buildings. A building like the Terminal Tower is part of the fabric of this city, just like Victor was the heart and soul of the team. You don't just tear the damn thing down bc you're going through a rough patch, just like you don't ship Victor off solely for financial reasons. If that is how baseball has become, then I don't give a damn about any of it. Also, who are you guys kidding? Do you honestly think we won't lose LaPorta and any other prospect once they become studs? If Grady hadn't signed such a horrible contract (from his standpoint), he'd be long gone, too. This is a joke. We've become a farm system for the rich and powerful, and the best we can hope for is that very rare season where EVERYTHING works out.
July 31, 200915 yr ^Welcome to major league baseball. I highly suggest not getting emotionally attached to any player if you are the fan of a small or mid market team. It is impossible to keep them. Impossible.
July 31, 200915 yr This whole organization should be charged an 'embarrassment tax' for how this has been managed and how it has made us look in the sports world. It is the 70's all over again...We are a farm club for big markets. I so much wish we'd stop letting the sports scene define us so much. Let's be winners at some other things...I will not go to another game..and believe me... I was as big a fan as any. All a joke. What else can I say? It is almost as if this organization is on purpose, self destructing. Even the Andre Thornton, Toby Harrah, and Jerry Dybzinski years were sweet compared to this! You have a few core players to build around...you don't get rid of them all.
August 1, 200915 yr Martinez bids Tribe a tearful goodbye Veteran catcher's professionalism, emotion on display By Anthony Castrovince / MLB.com 07/31/09 6:48 PM ET CLEVELAND -- Victor Martinez sat in front of his locker one last time in the Indians' clubhouse Friday afternoon, with his 4-year-old son, Victor Jose, in his lap. Martinez sobbed as he explained to his son that he had just been traded to the Red Sox. "My wife has been talking to him a little bit," Martinez told reporters soon after. "He woke up this morning, and the first thing he said was, 'Daddy, are we still an Indian?' "I told him, 'So far, yes,' and he started screaming, 'Yes! Yes!'" But around noon ET on Friday, talks between the Red Sox and Indians heated up. And around 3 p.m., an hour before baseball's non-waiver Trade Deadline, the swap sending Martinez to Boston for Major League right-hander Justin Masterson and prospects Nick Hagadone and Bryan Price was consummated. Full story at http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090731&content_id=6171070&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
August 1, 200915 yr I actually saw a good line on cleveland.com. The indians show 0 loyalty to their players. I will never get mad at another player who leaves for money. This team isnt loyal to them. its obvious Vic wanted to stay here and would have not robbed this team. The front office doesnt deserve any fans...but i cant not root for them. Luis Valbuena, Asdrubal, Choo, those guys didnt do anything to deserve no fans...they just go out there and play their tails off.
August 1, 200915 yr I'm tearing up a little bit reading that. I really can't think of a move that effected me this much by any of our teams. Victor was the kind of guy that loved the city and the city loved him back. I'm going to miss his handshakes and passion for the game the most. I know I'll be a fan again, but it won't be any time soon. Old habits die hard.
August 3, 200915 yr I think the silver lining in this mess is getting to see a lot of quality young players bring in a lot of energy to finish off the season. I watched most of every game this weekend and these young ones are really fun to watch. Valbuena, Cabrera, Marte, Gimenez, and Crowe looked pretty good this weekend. If they can find some pitching down on the farm they may have a decent year next year.
August 3, 200915 yr Baseball is a joke of a sport, MLB is a joke of a league, and this just goes to further my case. I love baseball as a sport, but MLB is run terribly and is in desperate need of a salary cap like the ones seen in every other professional sports league in this country.
August 3, 200915 yr i heard a stat the other day, not sure if it holds true today still, that each division leader was the team with the largest payroll...wouldnt be a surprise
August 3, 200915 yr What does everyone think the Indians main problem is, inability to identify talent, or inability to develop talent? Both or neither?
August 3, 200915 yr I'm not sure what it is. It seems like a lot of these guys are studs in AA and AAA, then they get called up and look like they couldn't start for the bad news bears. Pitching wise i would say its more identifying the talent.
August 4, 200915 yr I went to one of the games last weekend against Detroit and I was pleased to see they are still hustling to first base and playing defense very well. I'd like to see more offense, but the starting pitching and defense seems pretty decent. Get some bullpen help and a couple of big bats and I think this can be a good team. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 4, 200915 yr that article. wow. so obviously from the heart. well, i guess the best of it is victor is with a contender now. he deserves that at least. this tribe is morphing back into the 20 yr reign of terror stouffer-mileti-bonda-o'neill ownership era. broke and pathetic. the shame of it is, it's not like they don't have it, but the dolan family money is being spent elsewhere instead of back home.
August 5, 200915 yr I lost interest a few years back right before I moved to cincinnati. I'm suprised that they havnt tried to trade jacobs field errrr the pro to someone for a sandlot and a bucket of tennis balls... new ownership please then perhaps Ill attend a game.
August 5, 200915 yr Playing Devil's advocate: up to this season the Dilan's have payed enough payroll to keep the team competitive, I don't have the numbers but I would guess the amount would be on par with most of the central division. There is a problem with the young talent coming up from the farm system. As I posed my question earlier, it is either they are not as talented as the scouts thought, or that they have not developed well. So, I am looking at the scouts and the developmental coaches. Both of those people are under the direction of the GM. I like Shapiro, but I'm starting to think he just got lucky with the Colon trade that brought Sizemore and Lee. Bring back Hart and Grover for a few years, couldn't hurt at this point
August 5, 200915 yr There is one other difference from the Dolan's and Mr. Jacobs. The Dolan's have told Shapiro that they want to keep and develop pitching as a top priority. While Mr. Jacobs was supposed to be a hands off guy, I think he dug the long ball.
August 5, 200915 yr The problem is they develop that pitching, then they give them away!! I think the Dolans are investing as much as the next guy, and there doesn't seem to be someone ready to step up with big bucks he's willing to lose. Its hard to believe that all of the guys who did well in 07, are so bad today. I would think coaching and leadership has something to do with it. At least its time to investigate alternatives.
August 5, 200915 yr I think there's a consensus among the hard core Indians geeks that the current management's drafting is a big culprit for the team's disappointing performance. Really, none of the upper level picks from the last several drafts have developed into high level players.
August 5, 200915 yr They have drafted very poorly, but they seem to be able to identify talent in other club's systems pretty well. They have a done a pretty poor job of signing relief pitchers of the past few years. I wonder if 2005 set this team back a few years. It bought Shapiro some time--everyone was praising him as a genius because he plucked a few players out of the trash heap and they produced. Ever since Hafner broke his hand in late 2006, he hasn't been the same. He's better this year, but he costs a lot of money for what we're getting out of him.
August 5, 200915 yr ^The Hafner, Wood and Westbook contracts eat up a huge chunk of the team's payroll no, sadly. Can't really fault management for those- all just bad luck. Showed willingness by Dolan to spend some money though. If only Shapira made all his trades with Seattle- getting Choo and Asdrubal were some of the best Tribe deals in recent history.
August 5, 200915 yr ^ Not to be confused by the best trade ever with Seattle, Felix Fermin for Omar!!
August 5, 200915 yr Ever since Hafner broke his hand in late 2006, he hasn't been the same. He's better this year, but he costs a lot of money for what we're getting out of him. Steroiddddddssssssssss.
September 30, 200915 yr While the full Cleveland Indians Discussion is getting cleaned up (47 pages! :-P) this thread can act as a stand-in for it. Couldn't wait any longer because of today's news ... see below. Once the full discussion thread is cleaned, it will be merged with this one. So go ahead and discuss away on this thread in the meantime. Indians fire manager Eric Wedge CLEVELAND - The Cleveland Indians have fired manager Eric Wedge in the final days of a disastrous season. Wedge guided the Indians to one playoff appearance in seven seasons, and this year the club fell out of contention early and is currently one game out of last place in the AL Central. Wedge will finish out the season as manager. Cleveland's coaching staff has also been informed it will not be retained, but some of the staff could be re-hired by the Indians' next manager. Full story at http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10147916/Indians-fire-manager-Eric-Wedge
October 1, 200915 yr The full discussion thread is now edited and cleaned up. A big thank you goes out to buckeye1, one of our volunteer thread cleaners, for editing at least 35 of the 47 pages in the original thread! Good job buckeye1!
October 20, 200915 yr Hmm: I suffered with this team from 1960 to the mid nineties (when they supernova'd), and now with the resulting dwarf star. If I could, I would do a stochastic mathematical model given the tribe budget, percentages of prospects that become good, how long the team could keep them, the percentage of free agents that work out and how long the team could keep THEM, with periodic team personnel turnovers (resets) every few years, and see what the model predicted in terms of what would be the average frequency of the Indians doing well: 8 years, 22 years etc. It probably could be done, but I do not have enough anti-depressants to see the results.
October 25, 200915 yr new tribe skipper!!! Updated: October 25, 2009, 4:22 PM ET Indians sign Acta as manager CLEVELAND -- The Cleveland Indians hired Manny Acta to be their manager, giving him the job about three months after he was fired by the Washington Nationals. Acta signed a three-year contract with a club option for 2013, Indians spokesman Bart Swain said Sunday. Additional terms were not disclosed. "I am very excited to become part of the Cleveland Indians family," Acta said. "I look forward to working with this talented group of young men who seem to possess a lot of energy and passion for their work." Acta was offered the Houston Astros' managing job before agreeing with the Indians, sources told ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney. The Indians chose Acta after a second interview over former New York Mets manager and current ESPN analyst Bobby Valentine and Indians Triple-A manager Torey Lovullo. The team had been expected to interview Dodgers hitting coach Don Mattingly this week. "We are very excited to have Manny Acta on board as our major league manager," Indians general manager Mark Shapiro said in a statement. more + news video: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4593663
October 26, 200915 yr Well, I have heard of selecting a manager that matches up well to your (player) talent, but I never thought it meant hiring a losing manager to manage a losing team. The curse lives on.
October 29, 200915 yr so are you all enjoying cc vs cliff lee & ben francisco is game one of the world series? i want to throw a brick at the tv.
October 29, 200915 yr so are you all enjoying cc vs cliff lee & ben francisco is game one of the world series? i want to throw a brick at the tv. No doubt I'm a little sick. We're talkin' about probably the two best pitchers of this era and they both performed magnificently tonight. Lee pitched an absolute gem against the highest paid offensive machine in MLB and save Mr. Utley, Sabathia was nearly as good. So who do I blame that these two ACE's are no longer in my beloved hometown...?... I'm shakin' my head, I just don't know. Good mornin' Friends, Go Cav's.
November 17, 200915 yr Cleveland Indians name Sandy Alomar Jr. first base coach By Paul Hoynes, The Plain Dealer November 17, 2009, 4:37PM CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Sandy Alomar Jr. is coming home This is good to hear... more at: http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2009/11/cleveland_indians_name_sandy_a.html
December 7, 200915 yr any ideas yet on who is going to catch for the tribe with martinez and shoppach gone?
December 7, 200915 yr i wouldn't expect them to pick anyone else up. marson/toregas... probably until June or July. And then santana / marson.
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