Huh?  :)  Seriously dude, I don't even see how that is possible.

 

Haha, I see what I did, but I don't know how I did it.

How long is Ubaldo locked up for?  That is a LOT to give up unless he is signed through at least 2013.

How long is Ubaldo locked up for?  That is a LOT to give up unless he is signed through at least 2013.

 

3 years they said

How long is Ubaldo locked up for?  That is a LOT to give up unless he is signed through at least 2013.

 

Yeah, he wouldn't be a full-fledged free agent until 2014.

 

There's a lot to like about this trade assuming Jiminez isn't hurt.

It's exhilarating but also a big gamble.  In the world of small market windows, it means the FO is going all in for 2012 and 2013, and I suppose this year too.

It is refreshing that we finallly made a trade for the now...for the first time in a while

Absolutely crazy day for Indians.  Can't wait to read more about the Ubaldo deal tomorrow.  After spending so much effort getting myself psyched for Pom and White it's a lot to lose, but there's a lot to like with our rotation over the next couple years with Ubaldo (assuming he's healthy...)

 

And Clefan98, I'm very sorry for your loss ;)

 

 

 

I like who we're getting in return and I was the one who said last month that San Fran wanted O-Cab.  Wonder why a first place team would be trading to get him??

Team leadership trade; guys like OC have intangibles for a young, playoff contender like SF

^agreed. 

Wtf is Santana doing these days?  He just interfered with a runner and then didn't back up the relay throw, allowing a run to score.  Wake up!

Ugly game.  And good shot this upcoming road trip will end this season's chances.  Here's hoping Detroit and the White Sox continue to stink too.

Ugly game.  And good shot this upcoming road trip will end this season's chances.  Here's hoping Detroit and the White Sox continue to stink too.

 

Yeah it's over.  They went 2-6 on the homestand, which is unacceptable.  The Tribe really messed with this town's psyche by jumping out to such a hot start and making us believers.

I think we have a real chance of winning the Central. I am more afraid of CHW than I am of DET. I would call the White Sox the prohibitive favorites despite their current position. They did not unload their talent and are going for it. They can do it. So can we.

 

Jimenez Trade: Overall, I like it. He may not be the model of consistency, but for the price, we got a very talented guy with a favorable contract. We paid dearly, but in a currency we can afford to spend right now, and one the Rockies wanted. We have a good bullpen, we needed an ace. We got one. And, we sent a signal to everyone on the team - we want to win, now. That's not a signal many of these guys have gotten in their few years here. Also, we did not give up people like Kipnis or Chisenhall, which leaves some faint hope one of them will emerge into a real offensive complement to A-Cab among the infielders. Well done, Antonetti.

 

Fukudome: Not bad - we definitely needed someone out there. If Sizemore comes back and is productive, the outfield is good enough to support a run for the division. It's the infield that's really lacking.

 

O-Cab to SF: Whatever. I liked him, but it made sense if SF gave us someone good. Offensively, it's probably a wash, Kipnis can probably hit .240 with some time to adjust. No sense keeping O-Cab around if he's not going to outdo the prospects.

 

If there was money to add another serious bad/serious starter, or if Sizemore/Santana were even close to living up to their abilities, I think this team would be a sure bet to win the Central. As it is, I think we have about even odds of pulling it off. If that puts people in the seats - it's worth it. And Jimenez isn't that expensive for what he could be.

PORTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

I was at that game. I was ripping on LaPorta all evening for his lack of discipline at the plate and then he goes and whacks that dinger. Every so often a blind squirrel finds the acorn!!! :)

 

BTW, the fireworks afterwards was the best I've ever seen at an Indians game, and one of the best, period, that I've seen.

 

Then they lay another offensive egg on Sunday... Can Jimenez hit instead of pitch???

Do you guys think Carrasco should be suspended the rest of the season (if not longer) for flagrantly throwing a fastball to that batter's head? That kind of conduct should be criminal (how the hell it isn't is beyond me, but then again look at all the hockey fights), and the Indians should make an example that head-hunting = we do not want you. What if he had connected, and we'd have another Ray Chapman incident... It's inevitable, you know.

 

And it doesn't hurt that Carrasco's been crappy lately, plus he's supposedly a jerk.

^yeah.  Carrasco/Carmona are both headcases.  No composure at all.  From what i hear from people who are close to the clubhouse is that they both have unhittable stuff, but are empty between the ears.  I also hear that many hispanics in the league are like that. 

 

After this weekend i am devastated that they made that trade.  It is clear that this team just isnt good enough to do anything special.  They just gave away two really strong prospects.  Pomeranz was going to be a beast for us.

 

If you cant get up for a game for the royals the day after a walk-off homer and signing Ubaldo Jimenez, then you are not a team of winners.

Indians: GOING....... GOing............gone!

 

I'm not sure that I'm happy with the trade.  BUT... the Indians wouldn't have made it if it was just for this year.  They would probably never say it publicly, but this team is built to contend next year and beyond.  It's also a bit silly to predict that a pitcher who has played a grand total of 3 AA ball games is a guaranteed ace.  You can go here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cleveland_Indians_first-round_draft_picks and tell me which combination of two of ANY of these players since 2000 you wouldn't trade for Ubaldo.  That's not to say the Indians didn't get totally burned.  But I've got a Strasburg, Ankiel, Wood, and hell, even a Marte and a LaPorta that say things don't usually turn out like they're supposed to with prospects.

i for one find the trade refreshing. I'm 35 I've been following prospects since I was 8. Guess how many championships we have to show for it?...

 

IF pomerantz ends up being as good as jiminez now, it won't for about 3 years. He wouldn't even get the call up until late next year. At the point he'll hit his stride we'd probably have masterson under contract for 1 more year. This isn't about this year... it is about 2012 and 2013 with a nasty 1-2 punch. This now puts the pressure on the FO to go out and find a bat this off season by any means necessary. Our window just got moved up about 2 years.

 

Frankly I'm tired of overvaluing prospects the vast majority of which never pan out, particuarly pitchers. If this doesn't pan out, hell, at least they tried for once instead of holding on to the adam millers of the world at all costs.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-passan_indians_rockies_jimenez_prospects_073111

PORTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

I was at that game. I was ripping on LaPorta all evening for his lack of discipline at the plate and then he goes and whacks that dinger. Every so often a blind squirrel finds the acorn!!! :)

 

BTW, the fireworks afterwards was the best I've ever seen at an Indians game, and one of the best, period, that I've seen.

 

That was actually my first Indians (and MLB) game ever.  The metaphorical fireworks during the game and the literal ones afterward were both fun to watch.  Shame that apparently they're back into a slump already after that.

McCleveland, we must have been channeling the same baseball nerd spirits at 2:47 this afternoon.

I'm fully on board with the trade too for the reasons cited above.  And Ubaldo's demise since the first half last season has been greatly exaggerated if you look behind the record and ERA (which involve a lot of normal variation).

 

Even as the Tribe fades this summer, I'm still psyched to watch Ubaldo and to see Chis and Kipnis evolve and mature, because those guys are going to have a ton to say about how competitive the team is next year.  If things go reasonably according to plan (no need for fantastically improbably), the team could be at least slightly above average at several positions next year which should be enough to compete in our garbage division.

FYI, I heard that the club option for 2014 on Ubaldo's contract is void now that he has been traded.  If true, we have him for the next two years (unless he sucks it up and we are able to re-sign him), not the next three.  I am still OK with the deal.  It was nice to be a 'buyer' for once.

^I respect everyones opinions.  Im just saying Pomeranz had the size and make up to be another Sabathia type guy...intimidating his batters.  If this was last year i would have been nuts about Jiminez.  Heck, if we only gave up ONE of our top two pitching prospects i would be psyched...i just felt we dumped alot for a guy who lately hasnt been outstanding.

Not knowing exactly what you're giving up certainly makes the psychology of the trade interesting.  It's really only fair to judge the trade as of now, because it really is such a crap shoot which pitchers break through, but if White and Pom do both end up distinguishing themselves, ooooh man our Tribe better be good next year and 2013.

 

FYI, I heard that the club option for 2014 on Ubaldo's contract is void now that he has been traded.  If true, we have him for the next two years (unless he sucks it up and we are able to re-sign him), not the next three.  I am still OK with the deal.  It was nice to be a 'buyer' for once.

 

Technically I think it converted to a player option, which is arguably worse than the club option being voided if he ends up tanking.

though I think they are still looking for some clarification from MLB on when he has the ability to void that option. with that in mind...

 

as someone at 35 who has NEVER seen the Indians make a bold move and part with one of their dear prized prospects for a legitimate player, like I said... I find this refreshing. While they are at it, I would like to see them make another bold and refreshing move. Tear up and throw away that current club friendly deal and buy an extra year or two while we still have some leverage. If that doesn't get done this summer... he leaves in 2014. That is just the reality of mid and small market teams until baseball drastically changes its financial model.

though I think they are still looking for some clarification from MLB on when he has the ability to void that option. with that in mind...

 

as someone at 35 who has NEVER seen the Indians make a bold move and part with one of their dear prized prospects for a legitimate player, like I said... I find this refreshing. While they are at it, I would like to see them make another bold and refreshing move. Tear up and throw away that current club friendly deal and buy an extra year or two while we still have some leverage. If that doesn't get done this summer... he leaves in 2014. That is just the reality of mid and small market teams until baseball drastically changes its financial model.

 

I've heard this suggested by other folks and I was thinking the same thing.  Throw some more money/years at him and get him on board through maybe 2015 or so while he's still somewhat affordable.  Lock up a few other guys and put together a core than can have this franchise competing for a pennant in the worst division in baseball and bring some hope back to us fans for the "now" rather than continually point to "next year."

^ Sorry i wouldnt do this.  Once again.  Ubaldo Jimenez had a beautiful 19 win year....and good start to last year.  Carmona had a 19 win year in 2007 and a beautiful start to 2008 and we locked him up.  Now we are stuck with a headcase. If we lock up Carmona jr., we spend valuable dollars and set our franchise back...if he turns out to be great and we locked him up...then wonderful....but what are we basing his contract on?  WHat he did in the previous years or what he has done for us lately?

^Nice win last night. I just want to say that it's nice to still be excited about the Indians in August. I find myself scanning past Browns training camp articles to get to the Indians coverage. Go Tribe. 

^^Ubaldo has had far more success than Carmona.  The three years previous to this one he pitched 200 innings, had ERAs under 4, and was close to a K/inning.  And he did all of this while pitching in the most hitter-friendly park in baseball.  I don't know why everybody seems to think he only had one good year.  Carmona has been wildly inconsistent and doesn't strike anybody out (I know he's a sinker pitcher).  Point being, Ubaldo is much more of a proven player, and has almost nothing in common with Carmona except for winning 19 games once. 

^I think the smell test will be Friday night against Texas.  This is big for Ubaldo.  There is no excuse why he shouldnt pitch his very best in this game.  He needs to show his new fan base that he is in to win it and who better to shut down than the deadly Texas Rangers.  I dont want to hear "he just didnt have it tonight".  Thats not acceptable given the urgency of a pennant race and how this team needs a booster shot.

^I think the smell test will be Friday night against Texas.  This is big for Ubaldo.  There is no excuse why he shouldnt pitch his very best in this game.  He needs to show his new fan base that he is in to win it and who better to shut down than the deadly Texas Rangers.  I dont want to hear "he just didnt have it tonight".  Thats not acceptable given the urgency of a pennant race and how this team needs a booster shot.

 

Baseball is a game of large sample sizes.  I think it's a little short-sighted to expect to judge the man one way or the other based on one performance, especially when he's probably going to make another 70-80 starts in an Indians uniform.

True.  But we are running out of time.  We are down to less than two months left and the season is incredibly shorter.  If he is an "ace" like everyone says and deserves a contract before pitching in an indians uniform...he needs to win big games.  Friday night, no matter how you slice it is a big game.  We 9 games in a row with Boston, Texas and Detroit.  This essentially can be our season.

Ubaldo's start Friday night will be exciting and significant, etc., but for the love of god I hope nobody reacts to the trade based on that one night.  Pitching in Texas after just being traded after an awkward period of rest sounds like a pretty tough outing even for the very best out there.

 

Last night's game was really awesome.  I forgot how nice it was to score runs.  Seems like cheating to say now, but I'm pretty confident Kipnis is already going to be a major offensive upgrade over O-Cab, in case the Tribe manages to hang around this season.

Ouch

 

http://larrybrownsports.com/baseball/asdrubal-cabreras-controversial-home-run-hits-fan-in-leg-leaves-seams-mark/80173

Tweet from Alex White from about an hour ago:

 

"Denver or Cleveland, Denver or Cleveland? Let's be honest, ill take Denver. With the exception of a few people."

 

Just awesome.

Anyone who would say that is an a-hole.  Its ok to think something, but to go public with that?  Lets see how much you like denver when every shmuck fly ball leaves the yard.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ycn-8902451

What an immature dick

White is what, 22 years old?  Has he even been to Denver before?  I have, lived there for 6 years, and CHOSE to move to Cleveland.  The only regret I had was that I didn't do it sooner.

 

Apparently White didn't ask Carmelo or Cutler for their opinions of Denver..

he came back and told people to lighten up.  Still...punk move...way to take the high road

Nevermind the fact that pitching at coors field is like pitching batting practice. Even if it is an NL team.

 

Good game tonight for the rookies.

Man, it is all about the rookies in this series.  Sure didn't take long for Kip to catch up with O-Cab's HR total.  I could live without the tension and crushing disappointment of these last two games though.  And f'ing Texas decided to roll over up in Detroit.

well lets hope they keep rolled over.

^Starting tomorrow, yes.

 

Even though I know it could be a tough outing, I am PUMPED for tomorrow's Ubaldo start.

Detroit lost today.  We really need to get back to 3 games out tonight.

Well at least boston was kind enough to move lester back to friday to start against ny...

Man, it is all about the rookies in this series.  Sure didn't take long for Kip to catch up with O-Cab's HR total.

 

Too bad they're all solo shots.  Can't wait til his RBI's catch up w/O-cab. 

Man, it is all about the rookies in this series.  Sure didn't take long for Kip to catch up with O-Cab's HR total.

 

Too bad they're all solo shots.  Can't wait til his RBI's catch up w/O-cab. 

 

Even with his HRs all being solo shots (which are more an indication of how bad the rest of our offense has been as of late than anything), he's still on pace to have 30% more RBIs than O-Cab once he reaches 324 at bats.

Man, it is all about the rookies in this series.  Sure didn't take long for Kip to catch up with O-Cab's HR total.

 

Too bad they're all solo shots.  Can't wait til his RBI's catch up w/O-cab. 

 

Ahhh, yes, O-Cab gets credit for all the base runners in scoring position he got to bat with, but Kip gets dinged for not having anyone on base.

 

I also liked the suggestion up-thread that O-Cab's leadership was necessary for SF's "young" team, considering how ancient that roster is by baseball standards.  O-Cab was brought in to replace Miguel Tejada, one of the few position players who has played worse than O-Cab this year, and the rookie who was brought up to replace Tejada when he was injured (Crawford).  In the [tweeted] words of ESPN's Keith Law:

 

The Giants, tired of playing a statue (Tejada) or an automatic out (Crawford) at short, acquire Orlando Cabrera, who is both.

 

 

EDIT: I'm not trying to be a jerk, and I really do wish O-Cab the best on his new team.  It definitely has to stink to be relegated to Hafner's pinch runner after such a long, generally good career.  But even for the sake of winning now, not for "player development" purposes, I am very happy Kip is playing, and I really wish they had transitioned away from O-Cab quite a bit earlier.  I'm sure Kip will struggle at times, but O-Cab's production really was very bad by just about every one of the more advanced metrics [which were not invented to smear O-Cab].  For the SABER-inclined, his wRC+ (a measure of "runs created" weighted by league and other factors), O-Cab was 154ths out of 156th qualified batters.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2011&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0