I enjoyed that Choo got the game-winning RBIs after all that fracas. That was an entertaining game.

^ Payroll is up by almost 20M this season.

 

Right, but up from what? $47 million is a near pathetic figure to spend on salary for a Major League baseball team.  I'm not saying $100+, but at least around the middle of the pack for the league. And if this is the "window" why not spend to win in 2012-14? 

 

It's half-a$$, which is what this franchise has been since Hart left.

 

I can go on forever on that topic, but how great was that game last night?  Choo and Hanahan getting in the middle of that melee and Choo getting redemption in the 10th.  High drama baseball, and they face the Royals another 17 times or something crazy.  Fun.

 

 

It's way up from 47. With Damon, it will be almost 78. There's not a huge problem with the amount at this point, it's more where they've chosen to put the money. 5M on Sizemore looks like a waste at this point - not much need for him with the way Duncan is playing, and the addition of Damon. Hafner's contract ends after this year, which will give them a lot of relief. Pretty sure Lowe and Kotchman are one-year deals, so there's a lot of open space next season.

 

http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/baseball/mlb/Indians/salaries/2012

I cant wait till Sizemore and Hafner, and their salaries are gone forever.

I'm not sure where the discrepancy is, but Baseball Reference has $67M.  http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2012-roster.shtml

 

I'm assuming that has something to do with the $10M Atlanta is paying of Derek Lowe's contract.  I won't get on them for saving that money though.  All I'm saying is $67M/$78M isn't really "going for it" in your window.  Though I do like signing Santana and Cabrera to extensions.  That's what the 90s teams did so well, signed their young talent early.

 

The Indians have just been burned using that same approach recently.  The two guys they do decide to risk and sign long term don't turn out to be worth it, with Hafner being hurt or not producing and Grady being hurt.  Also Fausto/Roberto got an extension, but was erratic after it.  Teams like Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Minny and Oakland just can't afford to miss on long team deals like that.

 

But hell, they just swept the Royals.  Maybe Shapiro/Antonetti are actually geniuses.  :roll:

Heard the stat that, in the weekend series against KC, the Tribe just scored the most runs in a series since 2000 or something like that. I realize it's KC, but perhaps it can help build some confidence at the plate.

Obviously, I'm thrilled with the results in KC, but our suddenly amazing bats really covered up some seriously mediocre pitching this weekend: Ubaldo was all over the lot (5 innings, 4 runs, 110 pitches and, yet, was at the right place at the right time= game winner), and Raffy Perez wouldn't know a strike zone if it was 5 feet wide -- he really needs more work, but has no options.  Sat we blew a 7-run lead but still pulled it out in 10 inns... If we played KC every week (with their lousy starting pitching) at Kauffman, we'd be great, but... I think we can hit: Santana can be our horse with help from Cabrera and Choo (hopefully), Kipnis and Hafner... But we've got to get our pitching act together (besides Justin) or it could be a loooooooong summer.

I think our SP will still be above average at the end of the day.  He's obviously not as good as his stats through 2 starts, but getting Lowe was a really smart "buy low" move by Antonetti.  If nothing else, he's a great M/BOR inning-eater who is better than last year's ERA suggests.  Gomez has also looked really sharp in limited innings.  And, FWIW, KC has a pretty legit line-up, so it's not like we gave up all those runs against the Twins or something.

 

It's very likely, though, that Sipp and Chris Perez are going to continue to struggle.  We've got great RP depth at AAA that coult help, but the stupidly high arbitration salary to C Perez ($4.5M) probably means he's going to be given more high leverage pitching opportunity than he should.

Well, what can you say...

 

First place!

I think our SP will still be above average at the end of the day.  He's obviously not as good as his stats through 2 starts, but getting Lowe was a really smart "buy low" move by Antonetti.  If nothing else, he's a great M/BOR inning-eater who is better than last year's ERA suggests.

 

YUP!

Well, we knew Jason Kipnis was a gamer when he came up last year; which is why his premature injury was among the most devastating to the team last year... Now he's showing everybody reason to be so hopeful.  Dude swings a pretty bat... He does need to improve his D, but hopefully that'll come.  We're playing good ball now.  Most of our starters are pitching well, esp. Lowe, Tomlin & Gomez.  Our B. Pen, aside from the hiccups in the opening Toronto series, has been lights out... Now, if we can somehow get Jiminez to DO SOMETHING!!  Jeez, what a bust, to date...

Yeah, Jiminez is a real mess.  And unlike last year, it's not just normal variance/bad luck.  He's completely unable to strike people out now.  Definitely takes our rotation down a notch.

 

I've really enjoyed the first month of baseball, but this weekend against Texas could bring us back down to earth pretty quickly.  This is really first good team the Tribe's faced since Toronto.  Texas is just scary good.

It's a nice thing to see, the Indians in first place, and over in the AL East the Yankees and the Red Sox in the cellar

It's a nice thing to see, the Indians in first place, and over in the AL East the Yankees and the Red Sox in the cellar

 

It's still early.  Last year they played well in June, July & August, then in September......bupkis!

It's a nice thing to see, the Indians in first place, and over in the AL East the Yankees and the Red Sox in the cellar

 

It's still early.  Last year they played well in June, July & August, then in September......bupkis!

 

We struggled to hit after May.  But I really think injuries decimated this team, MTS... Hafner, Sizemore and Kipnis were all hitting well, and all were injured; out for the season -- well, we know Grady and Travis have had their injury issues, but that didn't make it any better.  But losing the kid Kipnis, so soon after he'd exploded out of the minors,... really hurt.  On top of that, we lose Carlos Carrasco to Tommy John (gone the rest of last year, and all of this year), a major blow to our rotation as Carlos had been  pitching well.... I don't like making excuses, but it would be hard for any team to maintain thier momentum after being bitten by such an extensive injury bug to key people late in the season.

Not a peep out of anyone here after that series?

^true it was a big series and we just took 2 of 3 from the best team in baseball IMO. However, i have trouble getting too excited to comment (unless asked).  Its such a long season and we have two good teams right behind us.  I will definitely enjoy this, but we have 8 games  in the next 7 days against the sox (red and white).  This stretch will surely tell where we are.  I will gladly take 4 of 8.  5 of 8 is gravy and 3 of 8 would be disappointing.

Most significant thing in that series was Ubaldo pitching well and Johnny Damon hitting well - two big question marks answered in a positive way.

 

Perez leads MLB in saves easily, with 11, and 11 straight after blowing only his first attempt.

Awesome series. I saw only the 8th-11th innings on Saturday night. Missed everything else.

 

Perez leads MLB in saves easily, with 11, and 11 straight after blowing only his first attempt.

 

I still hate Perez. He puts way too many guys on base and scares the hell out of me.

Not a peep out of anyone here after that series?

 

Even when we're laying low, I think there are more fans here on UO than in the Prog these days.  :|

 

 

Great series though.  Today was a very unexpected win :)

^true it was a big series and we just took 2 of 3 from the best team in baseball IMO. However, i have trouble getting too excited to comment (unless asked).  Its such a long season and we have two good teams right behind us.  I will definitely enjoy this, but we have 8 games  in the next 7 days against the sox (red and white).  This stretch will surely tell where we are.  I will gladly take 4 of 8.  5 of 8 is gravy and 3 of 8 would be disappointing.

 

Well there's 2 in one day!

^true it was a big series and we just took 2 of 3 from the best team in baseball IMO. However, i have trouble getting too excited to comment (unless asked).  Its such a long season and we have two good teams right behind us.  I will definitely enjoy this, but we have 8 games  in the next 7 days against the sox (red and white).  This stretch will surely tell where we are.  I will gladly take 4 of 8.  5 of 8 is gravy and 3 of 8 would be disappointing.

 

Well there's 2 in one day!

 

And yet ESPN still feels that they don't deserve to be ranked over the Tigers

^true it was a big series and we just took 2 of 3 from the best team in baseball IMO. However, i have trouble getting too excited to comment (unless asked).  Its such a long season and we have two good teams right behind us.  I will definitely enjoy this, but we have 8 games  in the next 7 days against the sox (red and white).  This stretch will surely tell where we are.  I will gladly take 4 of 8.  5 of 8 is gravy and 3 of 8 would be disappointing.

 

Well there's 2 in one day!

 

And yet ESPN still feels that they don't deserve to be ranked over the Tigers

 

It's for last week.  And frankly if I was sports writer I would be skeptical also.

---

 

 

Cleveland moved six games over .500 for the first time this year.

The doubleheader drew just 19,679 total fans.

Despite being in first place, the Indians have the lowest average attendance in the majors.

 

The fans aren't convinced the Tribe is "for real" either.

 

And yet ESPN still feels that they don't deserve to be ranked over the Tigers

 

They don't even give them more than a blip of news coverage. But until Tribe fans show up at The Prog, I can't complain too much about national networks paying attention to them either.

And yet ESPN still feels that they don't deserve to be ranked over the Tigers

 

They don't even give them more than a blip of news coverage. But until Tribe fans show up at The Prog, I can't complain too much about national networks paying attention to them either.

 

Agreed!

And yet ESPN still feels that they don't deserve to be ranked over the Tigers

 

They don't even give them more than a blip of news coverage. But until Tribe fans show up at The Prog, I can't complain too much about national networks paying attention to them either.

 

I still dont understand this.  We are not bad fans because we dont go to the games.  I watch every game at home or listen on the radio.  I am sure hundreds of thousands do the same.  I would say that we love the tribe and are good fans.  I try to go to a game per homestand, sometimes its just not realistic though.  I wouldnt say I am a bad fan.  I will stick with my assumption that when schools let out, fans as a whole will be willing to go down to the ballpark on a Tuesday night.

 

Secondly, fine, let ESPN keep ranking their pet teams ahead of us.  As long as we win games, I could care less what ESPN thinks.

MTS, KJP, how many games have you guys been to this year?

 

Besides, MTS, a lot of the reason fans aren't showing up is not because they don't believe in the team, but because the weather has been awful for nearly every homestand so far.  Look at yesterday.  Both games had rain delays.  And who's going to show up to a rescheduled Monday day game that's rain delayed?  This is not an excuse.  We should be drawing more fans.  But the reasons fans aren't showing up are a lot more varied than simply them not believing in the team.

I don't know if tribe fans are "bad," but we can definitely say that as a whole they are uniquely uninterested in seeing the team play in person. Even in good weather against good teams. Must stink for the players who can't hear us cheering to our tvs an iPads.

 

And I don't blame ESPN for not buying the Tribe yet.  Despite our gaudy record, we've barely outscored our opponents thus far, which suggests a lot of unsustainable luck and good timing.  Plus unproven players like Kip, and jeanmar. Plus an unbelievably easy schedule so far.  And probably some leftover taint from last year's collapse.  The good news is that those 17 wins still count all the same :). Go tribe!

Fans over the past 10 years have been screaming for the ownership to NOT get rid of our favorite players... just think of how many we've lost.  Example: the difference between Jim Thome staying or leaving was a measly $500,000.  Then there's the trading of Bartolo Colon, Cliff Lee, and CC Sabathia.  Then there's the constant "rebuilding" (sort of like another orange-and-brown Cleveland team).  My question is- has the ownership of the Cleveland Indians given a product the fans can believe in?

 

Even if fans believe in the team, they don't currently believe enough in it to buy a ticket to actually see them play.  Currently, the team is doing great and I hope they continue to stay healthy and play great baseball.  I think if  ownership did a little more marketing of the team, the fans would come in.  This is the same town that set a record for the most consecutive sold-out games; if you give this town a product they can believe in, they will come.       

I don't know if tribe fans are "bad," but we can definitely say that as a whole they are uniquely uninterested in seeing the team play in person. Even in good weather against good teams. Must stink for the players who can't hear us cheering to our tvs an iPads.

 

And I don't blame ESPN for not buying the Tribe yet.  Despite our gaudy record, we've barely outscored our opponents thus far, which suggests a lot of unsustainable luck and good timing.  Plus unproven players like Kip, and jeanmar. Plus an unbelievably easy schedule so far.  And probably some leftover taint from last year's collapse.  The good news is that those 17 wins still count all the same :). Go tribe!

 

Ahh i dont know about the easy schedule so far.  If it werent for us, Chicago would be over.500.  They are a good team.  The Rangers are the best team in the league, IMO, we could have swept them.  Seattle is 5-0 against Detroit this year, and we took care of business against them.  Oakland ran through Boston like nothing and we won the series against them.  I dont care what the angels record is, they are still a Mike Scocia team and have multiple all-stars.  The tribe has player really good baseball...and most losses can be blamed on one or two plays that are correctable.

ESPN's Mike and Mike in the Morning will be broadcasting out of Progressive Field tomorrow morning for their LIVE show.

Well, I would certainly disagree that we have had an unbelievably schedule thus far - Rangers, Angels, White Sox, Oakland and Toronto certainly aren't slouches.

 

In terms of fans showing up, we frankly don't want to support those boobs running the team. The Dolans gleefully have an adversarial relationship with Tribe fans and have made horrible decisions with trades and propsects without abandon, all the while bemoaning overpaying for the team and being in a "small market". All to the tune of, what, $40 million profit last year?

 

Clearly attendance will go up if the team stays strong, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why Clevelanders are just burnt out by these idiots at the front desk.

^^^White Sox are below .500 against the rest of the league too.  In any case, regardless of current, early season records, KC, Oakland, White Sox and Seattle are all below average teams.  I'm not getting down on the Tribe though; I do think they are underrated and actually think they're capable of playing even better, even if not at quite the same winning percentage.  I know it sounds crazy, but I'm looking forward to seeing Grady come back for one more sot at refinding his old skills.  This team can't get by forever on these one and two run wins. They need to start torching some teams with more regularity.  The Red Sox starters would be a nice place to really pile up the run differential :)

ESPN's Mike and Mike in the Morning will be broadcasting out of Progressive Field tomorrow morning for their LIVE show.

 

On this morning's show after he got done looking like a little girly man while dancing to Living La Vida Loca, Mike Greenburg was moaning that he really didn't want to throw out the first pitch tonight. Gee, step aside and let me or many others who would love to do it throw at the first pitch! Some people don't realize anymore what they got.

^I'm guessing it was meant more as a joke/jab to Mike Golic, since he is constantly giving shout-outs to the Indians as his favorite team.

 

 

 

 

Power Rankings are still heavily weighted towards expected wins/losses at this point.  The ESPN baseball podcast  while talking rankings yesterday went on for a good 5min about who was the "Cleveland" of this year and the consensus was Baltimore.

 

WFNY had an article on attendance that was actually interesting.  Well, the back half of it was interesting.

 

Dolans need to fight the law even if the law wins

May 7, 2012 By Craig Lyndall

 

...

 

People love Dan Gilbert’s Cavaliers even as they distrust David Stern and the large majority of NBA stars. Dan Gilbert bites the hand that feeds him and tells them that the food needs to get better. The Dolans are seemingly good little boys that take what’s given and do the best they can to spruce it up for the fans. It’s O.K. to serve Cleveland Indians baseball and expect people to show up, but don’t try to tell me that the playing field is fair.

 

The Indians need to stop mentioning the size of the Cleveland market and market dynamics so much and get a little indignant at the league that allows such payroll disparities. At least send out a letter saying that the state of the labor deal stinks and needs to move toward a salary cap. At least this would create an “us against the world” mentality instead of fans so closely associating the Dolans with all the ills of Major League Baseball as a whole.

 

...

 

http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2012/05/dolans-need-to-fight-the-law-even-if-the-law-wins/

I guess I'm more tolerant of the Dolans than the average fan, but even so, I don't really get the logic of the protesting fan behavior.  The Dolans are bad for not investing enough in the team to support winning baseball, so even when the team is winning, they should not be supported, because the Dolans need to be punished?  Just seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face.  Not really sure what the end game us for that kind of strategy.  And life's too short to bank on the next owner group, IMHO.  Better to hold your nose, enjoy the relatively cheap tickets and watch some wins.  ymmv.

I spent two years "protesting" MLB which is a distinction without much of a difference.

I guess I'm more tolerant of the Dolans than the average fan, but even so, I don't really get the logic of the protesting fan behavior.  The Dolans are bad for not investing enough in the team to support winning baseball, so even when the team is winning, they should not be supported, because the Dolans need to be punished?  Just seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face.  Not really sure what the end game us for that kind of strategy.  And life's too short to bank on the next owner group, IMHO.  Better to hold your nose, enjoy the relatively cheap tickets and watch some wins.  ymmv.

 

Well said.

 

^I'm guessing it was meant more as a joke/jab to Mike Golic, since he is constantly giving shout-outs to the Indians as his favorite team.

 

 

I still think Mike Greenberg is a twerp. :)

Attendance lags record.  If they keep winning, people will come.  If they collapse again, they won't.

^Changes in attendance lag record.  It's not clear how absolute attendance relates to record though.  The season's young, but I don't think folks realize what a [low] outlier Indians attendance has been thus far.  We're drawing 5k less per game than the next worst team.  We're drawing more than 10k less than the hopeless Pirates.  I don't think there's some tidy single explanation, like weather, Dolan hatred, team record, etc.  But I do increasingly think the 1990s were just an extreme aberration and Cleveland's just not a great baseball town.  Not the end of the world; come June, even though attendance will still be low relative to other teams, the Prog won't be embarrassingly empty like it was yesterday, rain and all.

I guess I'm more tolerant of the Dolans than the average fan, but even so, I don't really get the logic of the protesting fan behavior.  The Dolans are bad for not investing enough in the team to support winning baseball, so even when the team is winning, they should not be supported, because the Dolans need to be punished?  Just seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face.  Not really sure what the end game us for that kind of strategy.  And life's too short to bank on the next owner group, IMHO.  Better to hold your nose, enjoy the relatively cheap tickets and watch some wins.  ymmv.

 

+1. Dolan made money without huge attendance so who got hurt? Plus, 'punish' the owners long enough and all you end up with is the owners crying about how they can't be successful in this market and they want to move the team to some other city .

 

I think a lot of fans are still stuck in the 90's too. The current ad campaign doesn't help that. In that sense, the Indians are a like the city itself. They're on the upswing, but nobody cares because they miss Higbees / Sandy Alomar.

They're on the upswing, but nobody cares because they miss Higbees / Sandy Alomar.

 

Anyone missing Sandy Alomar isn't paying attention ;)

Lol

You can't make the playoffs once in 10 years and expect attendance to remain high.

 

EDIT: Unless you're the Browns, then you can get away with making the playoffs once every 20 years and still solid attendance.

Browns make the playoffs once in 10 years and people still fill up that stadium to watch that awful mess.

 

Hell the Indians went 80-82 last year. When was the last time the Browns were better than 8-8? Embarassing.

 

It's one of the best places to watch baseball. Cleveland deserves the barbs on this one.

 

 

They're on the upswing, but nobody cares because they miss Higbees / Sandy Alomar.

 

Anyone missing Sandy Alomar isn't paying attention ;)

 

lol...fine, how about Al Rosen.

Anyone think the casino opening will help attendance tonight?

Browns make the playoffs once in 10 years and people still fill up that stadium to watch that awful mess.

 

Hell the Indians went 80-82 last year. When was the last time the Browns were better than 8-8? Embarassing.

 

It's one of the best places to watch baseball. Cleveland deserves the barbs on this one.

 

 

 

Terrible comparison.  If the indians played 8 games per year at home, you can guarantee they would be sold out.  81 games. 81!!  Tens of thousands of people arent worried about missing tonights game, because they know they can go 40 more times this summer.  If you miss a Browns game, you basically miss 1/8 of the season.  Plus, completely different crowds.  half the browns audience goes to act like its st. patricks day.

^ to add another point.  Dont misinterpret this coming from me because im a huge fan.  Ill be there tonight for my 4th game.  The tribe sold out in the 90's 455 straight times, because essentially tribe fans were witnessing as close to greatness as it comes in this town.  They were royalty. Alomar, Thome, Vizquel. Lofton.  Household names.  Same with the Lebron era.  Try convincing a casual sports fan that they are watching greatness.  Throw a couple names at them:  "Better get to the park, some day you will see the names Hannahan, Brantley and Duncan in Cooperstown".