Comparing their over 500 records is a little disingenuous as the Tribe went 81-81 in 08 and 80-82 last year. So I can just as arbitrarily say they're up 4-2 in the around 500 record. Not to mention they'll be in the mid 80 wins area this year as opposed to the Browns winning more than a few, barring a miracle.

 

More importantly, at least the Indians are somewhat competitive. Outside of those two good years, in what way have the Browns even come close to being remotely competitive since the 80s. The Indians might be medicore over the last 10+ years, but the Browns have been catastrophic.

The point is, they have the same amount of winning seasons.  Let me ask you a question, if the Indians only played eight home games a year, do you honesty believe those games wouldn't be at if not near capacity?  Also, in terms of the records, both teams have been lousy over that ten year span, it's just that in the NFL the bad teams have really bad records.  You will never see baseball teams win 25% of their games, which happens 4 or 5 times a year in the NFL.  It's the different nature of the sports.  Football is more conducive to larger variations in records, that's why it may seem like te Browns are so much worse.

Comparing their over 500 records is a little disingenuous as the Tribe went 81-81 in 08 and 80-82 last year. So I can just as arbitrarily say they're up 4-2 in the around 500 record. Not to mention they'll be in the mid 80 wins area this year as opposed to the Browns winning more than a few, barring a miracle.

 

More importantly, at least the Indians are somewhat competitive. Outside of those two good years, in what way have the Browns even come close to being remotely competitive since the 80s. The Indians might be medicore over the last 10+ years, but the Browns have been catastrophic.

 

I don't even think that trying to compare the teams based on winning percentage is a fair comparison.  Only the worst teams in MLB history will win ~40 games in a season.  The worst teams in NFL history will win zero or just one game.  So just because the Indians appear to have more seasons of near .500 play does not necessarily mean that they've been the better franchise.  Statistically, baseball records tend to be packed in closer to .500 by nature of the game.  In the NFL, the standard deviation from the mean is much greater. 

 

Now that's not to say that the Clowns haven't been terrible for most of the last dozen years.  It's just to say that the Indians haven't been significantly better...at least not to the point that people should be arguing that there's any reason for Cleveland to all of a sudden be turning into a baseball town.  Especially not after a decent, but not great start to this season.  It takes more than half a season of slightly above-average play to get fans in this town excited about the Tribe because the recent track record of the franchise based on larger sample sizes does not give us much reason to get excited.  Now if the Tribe were coming off of two or three consecutive playoff appearances and were sitting .5 game out of first place in late June and still receiving paltry support, I would understand Perez's feelings. 

"Closers" and "saves" are arbitrary and meaningless. Closers come in only when the team is ahead, and they come in at the start of an inning with nobody on base and little pressure.  A "save" means nothing more than that the pitcher did not screw up in his low-pressure situation. Why is that celebrated? And why should we care what a closer says about fans or cities or other sports?

Besides the cheap seats, which fill up pretty decently, its hard for families to justify the expense. At $25 per ticket, for a family of four it costs $100, not including parking or any food and drinks. At $50 a ticket, its $200. Even for a couple to go, it could cost 50 to like $200. I dont blame people for not going, and I dont think he should continue to openly bash the fans. I like him as a player a lot though. The team isnt that great, and doesn't really have any big names. The fans dont like the owners either.

Well, regardless the reason why the fans aren't coming, I can assure you that bashing them in the NY Times is not going to bring them back. The first time when he was just venting, I agreed with him. Now he's just making a spectacle of himself, and not in a positive way.

OK, he said his peace once. If he keeps ragging on Indians fans, then he is holding a grudge and is now starting to sound more like the Lebron haters he admonishes. If he wants to rally Indians fans to buy tickets, there's better way of doing that. Otherwise he should forever hold his peace from now on.

I've had it with this guy.  Trade him while he's hot.

Besides the cheap seats, which fill up pretty decently, its hard for families to justify the expense. At $25 per ticket, for a family of four it costs $100, not including parking or any food and drinks. At $50 a ticket, its $200. Even for a couple to go, it could cost 50 to like $200. I dont blame people for not going, and I dont think he should continue to openly bash the fans. I like him as a player a lot though. The team isnt that great, and doesn't really have any big names. The fans dont like the owners either.

 

What do you expect?  Honestly? 

Two Indians made the AL All-Star team: The aforementioned Chris Perez and Asdrubal Cabrera.  Unfortunately Jason Kipnis was snubbed (IMO).

Barf.  I get in car at weekend fun place with Tribe up 4 zip an ZMac dealing and me daydreaming about strong showing against good teams as I drive back home.  I get home after returning car to lot three hours later and check final score.  :(

Yep, I figured we'd need Choo's insurance run in the 8th with Perez coming up in the 9th. I just didn't think we need two more of 'em. If you read my posts about Perez, I don't trust the guy. He always seems like he's a misstep away from total catastrophe. He's the kind of guy who will walk the bases loaded and then strike out the side. And other times, his Russian roulette pitching style produces outcomes like today. He's aces wild. And this year he's been lucky. Mostly.

He's definitely a very good pitcher, but he's overrated.  And you're right, there's been quite a bit of luck on his part that we haven't seen more outcomes like yesterday during the first half.

 

Interestingly enough, on the day before the All-Star break, the two guys that really cost the Tribe the game on the defensive end of things were the two guys going to Kansas City as All-Stars.

This is the only kind of closer we ever get, since Mesa.  Remember Bob Wickman?

This is the only kind of closer we ever get, since Mesa.  Remember Bob Wickman?

 

In reality it's the only kind of "good" closer that most teams ever get.  Guys like Rivera are once-in-a-generation.  Some guys may be able to match his stat line for two or three years, but that type of consistency at the closer position is incredibly rare.  It's part of the reason why I would like to see the Tribe unload Perez right now...I don't see his success lasting long enough to warrant paying him as much as he's getting or holding on to him like he's an incredible asset.  Not to mention the fact that his diarrhea of the mouth is getting old.

And he's gettintg expensive...due for another arbitration bump next year.  I agree now would be an excellent time to trade him but I'm not too hopeful.

Free RTA and parking!

 

Cleveland Indians announce initiatives to get more fans to Progressive Field

 

http://videos.cleveland.com/plain-dealer/2012/07/cleveland_indians_announce_ini.html

Not to throw cold water, but with this weekend's listless performance again the Blue Jays, I fear the Tribe is about to take yet another midseason/post All Star swan dive just as they did last year, only this time, they can't use injuries for an excuse.  Our productive hitters like Cabrera (who seems somewhat disinterested for some reason) and even Kipnis, are struggling right now.  And of course, our potentially best hitter, Carlos Santana, has been MIA all season....

... On top of that Ubaldo, who had been pitching well, reverted to You-Bum-O once again on Saturday, reawakening gripes, once again, that you just can never be sure which guy is going to show up on the mound.... This team is very fragile and in order to win we usually have to get near perfect pitching to match our popgun offense... This weekend showed the frustation of rooting for this club:  we score 1 run, and win, then 9 runs, and lose... Today Lowe was very good (3 runs) and, of course, we go 0-10 w/ runners in scoring position and get shut out...

...par for the course for this oft frustrating franchise.

I don't know if it will matter at this point, but they need to make a trade deadline splash.

Season's not quite over yet.  Detroit and White Sox are both pretty flawed too.  And Tribe's onely 1 game out of the second wildcard spot.

 

The RISP has been terrible of late, but that's more an issue of luck/timing than of talent.  Even despite the slumps of certain players, the bats have looked pretty good overall the past several weeks.  Choo and Brantley have actually gone a long way to make our outfield respectible (offensively).  I'd love a Chase Headley type to add more punch to 3b, but I'm wondering if the main focus shouldn't be on upgrading the rotation...  No way they bench Ubaldo, but I could see Tomlin going to middle relief or down to AAA...

I agree the Tribe should (if they can afford it prospects wise, etc.) make a splash.  I know some commentators have focused on the negative run differential as an indication that they are going to take a dive, but to me that just means they should go for it this year--take advantage of their overachievement so far (at least from a SABR perspective) and build on it with a trade that improves the team.  No reason they can't outscore people by the same margin from here on out.   

 

Is there a chance that the front office will be wary because the Ubaldo trade has not worked out as they might have hoped? 

Fausto Carmona, errr, Roberto Hernandez Returning to Cleveland After Receiving Visa

Jul 21, 2012 -- 3:18pm

http://www.espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=1841

I don't think this team is a real contender and in reality I think that unloading some assets to help re-build the farm system would be their best bet for the long-term.  However doing so would obviously alienate the fanbase even further so that's not really an option.  It's kind of frustrating that they ended up in this gray area right before the trade deadline. 

 

I don't see last year's Ubaldo trade as preventing them from making a move this year, I just don't believe they have much left in the minor leagues at the moment to put together a trade for a potentially game-changing piece (and really I think they're multiple pieces away from being a true contender, but that's completely out of the question IMO).

How awful are the Indians to watch right now?  I turn on the game and we're down 2-0 with the bases loaded and Carlos Santana was up.  Somehow, I knew he'd strike out.

They just need to play Detroit more and this season could work, hehe.

Great game to go to.  Back to Back jacks.  Awesome!

 

 

We're still in this thing!!

 

With Soriano in this lineup, we are sooo much better. Come on Shapiro/Antonetti, lets make this happen [clap clap clap].

That win last night was most satisfying. I must admit that when Detroit went up 3-1, I changed channels. The Indians have had a hard time rallying against most pitchers, let alone Verlander (I know we've had some success against him, but the law of averages has to win out, right?). But I switched back a while later, and was shocked to see we were leading 5-3!

That win last night was most satisfying. I must admit that when Detroit went up 3-1, I changed channels. The Indians have had a hard time rallying against most pitchers, let alone Verlander (I know we've had some success against him, but the law of averages has to win out, right?). But I switched back a while later, and was shocked to see we were leading 5-3!

 

That was a momentum game for sure.

 

Now is the time for the owner to win over the fans on the fence with a big acquisition.

That game was just too awesome.  I was stuck on a semi-disabled train with intermittent internet so felt I like was following the game via telegraph in 1915 or something.  I literally didn't believe my eyes when the mlb gameday showed Pronk's HR.  I thought it was confused and still stuck on Carlos. The people near me probably wondered WTF was wrong with me when I got all excited.

 

Now would be an excellent time for a randomly occurring 7 game win streak.

That win last night was most satisfying. I must admit that when Detroit went up 3-1, I changed channels. The Indians have had a hard time rallying against most pitchers, let alone Verlander (I know we've had some success against him, but the law of averages has to win out, right?). But I switched back a while later, and was shocked to see we were leading 5-3!

Ditto

Still not sold.  This feels like fool's gold and coming at the worst possible time (tricking the management into buying when they probably should be selling).  With 63 games left, the Tribe still has a roster that is several pieces short of being a playoff team.

I haven't posted until now, but getting swept by a loser like the Twins and by the three-game combined score of 27-4 is tragic. The fact that the Indians haven't made a move to improve the team either by trade or promotion is a crime. And they wonder why the attendance is the worst and their TV audience is shrinking. If you don't want to spend money to make money, then sell the f---ing team!

Lets just hope Randy's true love has always been baseball and he is selling the Browns so that he can buy the Indians and own a team in a sport where his money actually matters.

I think Randy's true love is football...of the international variety. 

 

As for the Tribe...ughhhhh.

 

Yesterday it was rumored that the Tribe may have been in discussions with the Pirates regarding Choo.  I think it makes sense to trade Choo before 2014 and I'd be thrilled if they could snag Marte from Pittsburgh.  In fact that's a near dream scenario for me.  I think they also need to get rid of loud-mouth Perez soon, too.  His stock is as high as it will ever be right now.  I don't understand these Masterson rumors.  I believe that they need to hold on to him.

Why would we get rid if choo? He is basically our best bat on the team

Basically he can bring a lot more in trade because he still has team control at a reasonable price for next season.  You get more for players that are going to be around a bit than for a straight "rental player." 

He's due for about $7.5-8 million in arbitration next season, which means that if (or actually more likely when) he heads into free agency in 2014, he'll probably command $10+ for at least five years, if not more.  You can bet that bidding by the usual suspects (Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers, Phillies, Rangers) will prevent the Tribe from getting Choo at any kind of a reasonable price.  While I do think that the Tribe can be pseudo-competitive again next year, once again they'll likely be several pieces away from actually winning the division and I wouldn't be shocked if they're in the exact same position at the trade deadline.  As a result, it's not a bad idea to trade Choo now because as mentioned above he will have a higher value.  Further, in theory taking his salary off the books could free up that money for other roster purposes.  Also if they can get Marte from Pittsburgh I would say that he's really not that far off from being an everyday player and he could likely replace Choo in the outfield. 

^It's the right move, as I doubt Choo is motivated to stay in Cleveland anyway, but god-d@mmit, it hurts. How do I get off this merry go round?

 

 

^It's the right move, as I doubt Choo is motivated to stay in Cleveland anyway, but god-d@mmit, it hurts. How do I get off this merry go round?

 

Well it's too late now.  I just hope that Pittsburgh wasn't really offering Marte.  If so and the Indians passed for whatever reason...I just hope the front office didn't blow it.

 

 

 

That's hilarious.  And so true.  I love the shot at Perez, too.

I just heard the interview of Nick Antonnetti (sp?) on WKNR today. Man, that guy got on my nerves in a hurry.  To me the Dolans, ShapIro and this  guy come across as soooo condescending.

 

I'm paraphrasing here....

 

Rizzo: is anyone on the team untradeable?

 

NA: No.

 

Rizzo: so even Jason Kipnis could be traded?

 

NA: Well, is Jason Kipmis the best player in major league baseball?

 

Me: What kind of answer is that?! We can't even AFFORD the best player in mlb so whatever your intent, why even answer that way?

 

The Indians are a PR disaster.

^was it Chris Antonnetti?  If so, yea that guys a real prick. Whatevs I'm done with this team until opening day next year.   

Yeah they're in full BS mode right now, it gives me a headache whenever I hear one of them talk.

^was it Chris Antonnetti?  If so, yea that guys a real prick. Whatevs I'm done with this team until opening day next year.   

 

Ha ha, yes...CHRIS Antonetti.  Sorry. I played soccer with a Nick Anonetti (no relation). Nick was cool. Chris sounds like, well, you said it better than me.

 

Yeah they're in full BS mode right now, it gives me a headache whenever I hear one of them talk.

 

Right! It's grating on me. And I'm one of the few fans out there willing to cut Dolan and Co. some slack. Well, I try not to overthink the situation and enjoy baseball for what it is...but these front office clowns are making it just about impossible. I'm sick of this. Sell the damn team already.

I've defended the Dolans and the front office in the past, too, but there is still a lot of blame there.  I understand that baseball economics is heavily tilted against medium and small market franchises and that it's not easy for the Dolans in that regard.  But there's no reason why their payroll should be in the bottom third of all MLB payrolls.  That right there is on the Dolans and it gives the front office almost no room for error.  And unfortunately, the front office has made a number of errors, including a really bad recent track record on drafting and missing on a few high-profile free agent signings.  If it weren't for them hitting on a few really good trades in the past half-decade or so, this team would be a complete laughingstock. 

 

No one can honestly expect the Dolans to spend as much as the Yankees or even the Red Sox or Dodgers, but they do need to spend more on payroll.  And Shapiro and Antonetti need to start feeling a little heat under their behinds and start seeing a little more accountability for their decisions.

 

I can't believe it's been five years since that magical 2007 season, it really doesn't seem that long.  The years of mediocrity are really starting to fly by.

This 10 game losing streak for the Tribe has been brutal. 

Today's the big day: can they match the franchise record?  If they do, will anyone be there to notice?