Today's the big day: can they match the franchise record?  If they do, will anyone be there to notice?

 

Considering the team is over a century old, and how absolutely terrible they've been in the past, this is a pretty monumental accomplishment.

Losing streak over!

Losing streak over!

 

Thank goodness! Now we get back to talking about the Browns!! :-P

^But their losing streak hasn't even started yet!

I love the Indians franchise, but once they fell out of contention last week I began rooting for things to get as bad as possible.  Why?  The Dolans deserve a crappy team and the hatred from the fans that comes with it.  I'm sick of the front office and the ownership and I have zero faith that with the current crew in charge that the organization will ever make a legitimate run at a title.  It may be a pipe dream but I'm hoping that the Dolans are shamed into selling this team to someone who really wants to win and isn't looking to simply make a buck while having lackies out and about in the media blatantly lying to the fans.

There's a video of Chris Perez, getting into it with a fan this past weekend in Oakland, making the rounds on the internet today.  The fan is a clown for sure, but Perez has to know better.  Some of the things he says give us an insight into what he's thinking and quite frankly, it's not the type of thing I want in a player on one of my favorite teams. 

Are there still Dolan and Shapiro apologists out there?  This thing is a complete mess...and i dont want to hear anything about market, or what SHapiro is allowed to do.  The entire organization is a bunch of losers, and it starts up top with Dolan.  I have never seen a worse owner in my years of enjoying sports.  The Indians took 2 of 3 against Detroit in July and showed the organization they will give it their all...but its clear they were overachieving.  Dolan didnt allow us to make a run at Youkilis, we sat there and I believe the team just got demoralized and buried.  How can you expect to do anything with Duncan/Damon playing left field? 

 

I dont want to hear anything about how Dolan knows what he is doing.  Someone was stating that last year.  This guy is a terrible owner, and his quote after the indians lost 11 in a row shows that.  Next years attendance is going to be FRIGHTENING.

Don't be so negative! We can still finish above .500! All we have to do is play .740 ball the rest of the season -- win 28 of the last 38 games.

 

Cue the grounds crew,

 

"they're still shitty!"

 

The sad part is that they weren't playing all that well the first half of the season and still were at .500. I thought they could get hot like the beginning of last year and go on a run.

 

Sigh.

I don't have time to type out a long response, but in short the Indians market size can't be brushed off as a non-factor.  It's not the only factor, but it is one of many (including terrible ownership and a mediocre front office).

^Yeah, I agree.  I don't know what constitutes a "Dolan apologist" but I think it's a fantasy that different ownership would itself make things drastically different. And given the circumstances, I still don't think the front office has been bad, though clearly a lot of its decisions haven't worked out. Doesn't mean that a fresh start might not be helpful to at least start rebuilding morale.

 

I think we've talked about this before here, but the biggest problem for the team by far was a loooong string of awful drafts.  A lot of that randomness, but maybe some talent evaluation and approach issues too.  Things have already turned around in that department though.

 

Anyway, on the field, this second half has really been one for the ages. It's mind blowing how easy they make losing look these days.

^ My mind is officially blown...

 

I don't know how much I blame I can put on Acta at this point. He may have lost the team but I really don't think it's entirely his fault. I think the front office's geriatric signing and non-action at the trade deadline crushed the player's will to compete. Now they are just punching the clock.

 

 

^Yeah, I agree.  I don't know what constitutes a "Dolan apologist" but I think it's a fantasy that different ownership would itself make things drastically different.

 

You mean like the Jacobs?  Simple principles.  spend money to make money.  If your budget is tight.  Sell the team!! I get that owning a pro team is a big deal, but he is failing as the owner, and failing the city.  Listen to him talk, he is a complete clown.  Business culture starts at the top. 

^Yeah, I agree.  I don't know what constitutes a "Dolan apologist" but I think it's a fantasy that different ownership would itself make things drastically different.

 

You mean like the Jacobs?  Simple principles.  spend money to make money.  If your budget is tight.  Sell the team!! I get that owning a pro team is a big deal, but he is failing as the owner, and failing the city.  Listen to him talk, he is a complete clown.  Business culture starts at the top. 

 

Jacobs once told a local reporter (and I can't remember which one, though he repeated on a radio show a few weeks back) that he would never spend more than he took in.  And he owned the team at a time when the economy was booming, the Browns were gone, and the front office knew what it was doing.

 

Now all of that being said, the Dolans still stink for pocketing $30 million last year.  Between that and some bad decision-making by the front office, the team was doomed to mediocrity this year.

 

However overall, as fans, we need to temper our expectations.  The best we can hope for is a Tampa Bay or Cincinnati type situation.  Be competitive for a few years, maybe have a shot at a title, and then rebuild for a few years.  Both of those clubs have good front offices, so that plays a big part of their success.  Market size comes in to play is how consistently and to what extent a team can be competitive. 

the indians have lost 90 games in three of the last four years.  I don't think this is an issue of the fans needing to temper their expectations. 

The real issue isn't how successful the tribe it, it is that the front office gives the impression that they aren't even trying. 

^Yeah, I agree.  I don't know what constitutes a "Dolan apologist" but I think it's a fantasy that different ownership would itself make things drastically different.

 

You mean like the Jacobs?  Simple principles.  spend money to make money.  If your budget is tight.  Sell the team!! I get that owning a pro team is a big deal, but he is failing as the owner, and failing the city.  Listen to him talk, he is a complete clown.  Business culture starts at the top. 

 

Jacobs once told a local reporter (and I can't remember which one, though he repeated on a radio show a few weeks back) that he would never spend more than he took in.  And he owned the team at a time when the economy was booming, the Browns were gone, and the front office knew what it was doing.

 

Now all of that being said, the Dolans still stink for pocketing $30 million last year.  Between that and some bad decision-making by the front office, the team was doomed to mediocrity this year.

 

However overall, as fans, we need to temper our expectations.  The best we can hope for is a Tampa Bay or Cincinnati type situation.  Be competitive for a few years, maybe have a shot at a title, and then rebuild for a few years.  Both of those clubs have good front offices, so that plays a big part of their success.  Market size comes in to play is how consistently and to what extent a team can be competitive. 

 

The Reds are taking a completely different approach to things than the Rays.  Rays are much more like, say, the A's in their approach--young talent all the time, and get rid of them (for more talent) right when they start to cost money. The Reds seem to be taking the view that they are a middle-market team that will develop most of its own talent but pay to keep it around, and hopefully contend on a year-in, year-out basis. 

 

The Reds' payroll right now is $82 million, and they are looking at significant jumps in payroll coming up with the big contracts for Votto and Phillips.  They are going to be pushing $100 million within the next couple of years.  My guess is that Castellini is looking at it thinking they are in line for a big jump in local TV money (and the Reds ratings have been near the top of baseball for the last couple years (on a percentage basis)).  I think they want to be more like the Cardinals, and a lot less like the Rays or A's.

All that said, I think the Indians can certainly take the same approach the Reds are taking.  (To be honest, I don't follow them closely enough to know if that's what they are already trying to do.) 

By the way, FanGraphs had an article the other day on the Indians fade this season. 

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/cleveland-and-the-collapse/

 

All that said, I think the Indians can certainly take the same approach the Reds are taking.  (To be honest, I don't follow them closely enough to know if that's what they are already trying to do.) 

 

Nothing remotely close to the Votto deal will ever happen under the Dolan owned Indians. After Hafner and Sizemore they're probably afraid of a Phillips sized deal as well.

^Yeah, I agree.  I don't know what constitutes a "Dolan apologist" but I think it's a fantasy that different ownership would itself make things drastically different.

 

You mean like the Jacobs?  Simple principles.  spend money to make money.  If your budget is tight.  Sell the team!! I get that owning a pro team is a big deal, but he is failing as the owner, and failing the city.  Listen to him talk, he is a complete clown.  Business culture starts at the top. 

 

Jacobs once told a local reporter (and I can't remember which one, though he repeated on a radio show a few weeks back) that he would never spend more than he took in.  And he owned the team at a time when the economy was booming, the Browns were gone, and the front office knew what it was doing.

 

Now all of that being said, the Dolans still stink for pocketing $30 million last year.  Between that and some bad decision-making by the front office, the team was doomed to mediocrity this year.

 

However overall, as fans, we need to temper our expectations.  The best we can hope for is a Tampa Bay or Cincinnati type situation.  Be competitive for a few years, maybe have a shot at a title, and then rebuild for a few years.  Both of those clubs have good front offices, so that plays a big part of their success.  Market size comes in to play is how consistently and to what extent a team can be competitive. 

 

The Reds are taking a completely different approach to things than the Rays.  Rays are much more like, say, the A's in their approach--young talent all the time, and get rid of them (for more talent) right when they start to cost money. The Reds seem to be taking the view that they are a middle-market team that will develop most of its own talent but pay to keep it around, and hopefully contend on a year-in, year-out basis. 

 

The Reds' payroll right now is $82 million, and they are looking at significant jumps in payroll coming up with the big contracts for Votto and Phillips.  They are going to be pushing $100 million within the next couple of years.  My guess is that Castellini is looking at it thinking they are in line for a big jump in local TV money (and the Reds ratings have been near the top of baseball for the last couple years (on a percentage basis)).  I think they want to be more like the Cardinals, and a lot less like the Rays or A's.

 

Good points and I do agree that the Reds model could in theory be possible for the Indians organization in this market, though not with the current ownership.  The one thing that the Reds/A's/Rays all have is a good front office, even if they don't all follow the same model.

is there another gas station owner out there who can make the dolans an offer?

 

yeesh cle sports. owned by old bazillionaires or by new money, doesnt matter, same results, bupkis!

 

all the worse that the tribe has a great minor league system.

at least there is something to look forward to down on the farm in akron coming up:

 

http://www.akronaeros.com/playoffs2012.php

 

I don't think I've ever seen the Indians collapse so badly like this. It's like they drove right off a cliff.

I don't think I've ever seen the Indians collapse so badly like this. It's like they drove right off a cliff.

 

Yeah, this is absolutely insane.  On July 26, the Indians beat Verlander for the second time this season to take the 3-game series against the Tigers.  They were 50-49, and although they had been playing worse than they were at the start of the season, they were still above .500 and only 3.5 games out of first place.

 

Since then they are 5-27.  That span is 1/5 of the season and their winning percentage is 0.156 in that time.  To give you an idea of how bad they have been in the last month-plus-a-bit, if they continued on a pace like that for an entire season, they would end up 25-137.  No team since 1900 has had a winning percentage under 0.235, and the only team ever to have a winning percentage worse than what the Indians have had during this stretch is the 1899 Cleveland Spiders, who were 20-134.

 

Put another way, the Indians are averaging alternating between getting swept one series, and winning 1 out of 3 the next (they are slightly worse than averaging winning 1 out of 6 games).  That does not make for a watchable team.

I think it's funny they keep announcing the attendance at 13 or 14k.  There's no way even 5k are attending. 

if they continued on a pace like that for an entire season, they would end up 25-137. 

 

What's going to hurt attendance the most is the fact that they started off the last two seasons in a promising fashion.  Now, even if they are in first place next year halfway through the season, many people likely will think they are going to inevitably collapse anyway, so why go.

I don't think I've ever seen the Indians collapse so badly like this.

 

Nobody has, because they are literally setting team records in awful.

It's been pretty astonishing to watch. It takes a lot of freaky randomness on top of bad play to put together this kind of skid.

The only thing I can think of in all this is that commercial where all the animal scream bloody murder!

 

I don't think I've ever seen the Indians collapse so badly like this. It's like they drove right off a cliff.

 

Yeah, this is absolutely insane.  On July 26, the Indians beat Verlander for the second time this season to take the 3-game series against the Tigers.  They were 50-49, and although they had been playing worse than they were at the start of the season, they were still above .500 and only 3.5 games out of first place.

 

Since then they are 5-27.  That span is 1/5 of the season and their winning percentage is 0.156 in that time.  To give you an idea of how bad they have been in the last month-plus-a-bit, if they continued on a pace like that for an entire season, they would end up 25-137.  No team since 1900 has had a winning percentage under 0.235, and the only team ever to have a winning percentage worse than what the Indians have had during this stretch is the 1899 Cleveland Spiders, who were 20-134.

 

Put another way, the Indians are averaging alternating between getting swept one series, and winning 1 out of 3 the next (they are slightly worse than averaging winning 1 out of 6 games).  That does not make for a watchable team.

 

Incredible. The Tribe is now tied for the bottom of the barrel in the AL Central. Never would have imagined that could happen, back in July.

And breaking news on WTAM... reports indicate Manny Acta is gone and Sandy Alomar Jr is at the helm the rest of the season.

cleveland.com also says Shapiro and Antonetti will be back next year.  That is complete BS!  This is all about the Dolans and the front office shifting the blame to the players and coaches on the field and not taking any of the blame themselves.  Acta can only do so much with the junk players provided to him by the front office.

cleveland.com also says Shapiro and Antonetti will be back next year.  That is complete BS!  This is all about the Dolans and the front office shifting the blame to the players and coaches on the field and not taking any of the blame themselves.  Acta can only do so much with the junk players provided to him by the front office.

 

Bingo!

I agree that Acta did not get a fair shot at all.  However I'm a huge Sandy Alomar fan and I'm glad he's going to get a shot to manage.  I remember watching the Tribe play at old Muni in the early 1990s and he was one of the few players that consistently came out after games to sign autographs.  He has always been a class act and it's great that his first chance to take over the skipper role will be in the place where his career began.

Well, that was a worthless press conference. I can't believe I wasted my computer's speaker for that rubbish.

So, will Alomar get the permanent job?  Seem likely Francona will be looking for another managing job next year, though not sure the Tribe would be able to land him.

Terry Francona Will Reportedly Interview for Cleveland Indians Job   

By Patrick Clarke (Featured Columnist) on September 29, 2012

 

Former Boston Red Sox manager Terry Francona will reportedly interview for the same position for the Cleveland Indians this coming week.

 

This according to Cleveland Indians beat writer Nick Camino (via Twitter ):

 

Nick Camino@CaminoTribe 

Source: Terry Francona will be in Cleveland "Wednesday or Thursday" to interview for the open managerial job with the #Indians .

29 Sep 12  Reply Retweet Favorite

 

Francona is reportedly "excited" about interviewing with Cleveland because of strong bonds with the club's team president and GM, according to MLB on FOX reporter Ken Rosenthal via Twitter :

 

READ MORE AT:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1352254-terry-francona-will-reportedly-interview-for-cleveland-indians-job

Meaningless.

I'm not as down on the possibility of Francona as I was immediately upon reading the first report. I thought it absurd that Francona would be interested, but there are only so many manager jobs available at any given time. Also, the ESPN coach pundit carousel doesn't go on forever. Your cachet as a former manager only lasts so long, and new guys are always hitting the market (being fired), and not everyone can find a niche like Gruden.

 

However, this will go down just like the Indians in free agency. There will be clear superstars that of course they'll be interested in but cannot pay. There will be second tier people that aren't really as good as the money they'll be offered (by other teams) and our FO is at least smart enough to realize it and won't pay them. Which of course leads us to people that aren't really all that good, or are unproven, but they cost not really all that good or unproven money, and they'll pay them.

Which of course leads us to people that aren't really all that good, or are unproven, but they cost not really all that good or unproven money, and they'll pay them.

 

Like Alomar.  He'd be cheap and an easy sell to fans.

 

Ultimately though, the elephant in the room here is that the manager in baseball has less effect on the outcome of games than the coach of just about any other major professional sport.  Switching managers at this point is a red herring.  Not even Francona will turn this franchise around without the ownership putting more skin in the game.

It's official:  The Indians have hired Francona. 

 

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/baseball/mlb/10/06/indians-terry-francona-manager.ap/index.html?sct=hp_t2_a3&eref=sihp

it won't matter unless they get some real talent.

it won't matter unless they get some real talent.

 

I tend to agree with this, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't at least a little bit excited about this move.

Great selection. But it won't make a difference until the owners realize you have to spend to make money. Instead, the Dolans want people in the stands first so they can pay for talent. What a backward way of doing business.

The one great thing about this year's team is this cleveland.com meme, with one of the posters (MyTribe), a clear booster of the team, repeatedly harping about Santana and Cabrera needing to switch in the lineup, which is one of the main reasons the Indians' season was so horrible. Apparently this guy keeps repeating how much the season suffered because Cabrera wasn't hitting clean up and Santana was, so much that other posters (99% of whom are far more negative than this guy) turned it into a bit of a meme.

 

I'm not really giving it justice here, but it's really funny.

 

 

its nice to have a manager who knows how to talk to media and isn't antagonistic or defensive like someone who coaches by the lake

Ubaldo is getting $5.75 million next year. Not bad for being the worst pitcher in the majors.

 

 

Cleveland Indians close to selling SportsTime Ohio TV network

 

NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- Fox Sports Ohio is close to purchasing SportsTime Ohio for between $200 million and $250 million, said a source familiar with the negotiations. The sale could be completed by the end of December and would increase the Indians' rights fees for broadcasting their games from $30 million to an estimated $40 million a year.

 

It's not known if the sale will help improve the state of the struggling Indians by giving the front office more money to pursue big-ticket free agents or trade for high-priced talent this winter. The Indians and STO are owned by Larry Dolan and his family.

 

Paul Dolan, Indians chairman and CEO, issued a no comment through a spokesman when asked about the sale of STO.

STO President Jim Liberatore said only, "Since we launched, people have been interested in buying the network."

 

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2012/12/cleveland_indians_close_to_sel.html

^ does this mean Matt Underwood would be "GONE to souvenir city"?....please.

So now they have no excuses. This gives them a large base budget ($60 million?) BEFORE attendance-related revenue is counted to go get some decent free agents. Hopefully.