Giambomb FTW! That was fun. There's a crazy trivia stat I saw about no 40+ year old MLB player hitting a walk off homer for the last 110 years until today.

5 Straight! 

.5 behind Baltimore too

How many of you guys went to the game?

Can we just get over the attendance thing. It's not gonna be 30,000 every night until about September if we stay in it. It'll take a couple years to get those season tix sales back up. Fridays and Saturdays will do we'll, everything else 20kish. Just accept it for now. Still interested and great fans. Fwiw, I was at the game and it was exciting...winning games we shouldnt

I only go to weekday games, because I'm a weirdo. I'm on pace for 1 game per week starting in May this season.

 

But more seriously talking about attendance is probably one of the most unhelpful things that can be done at this point. There aren't enough people that can be properly guilt tripped into filling the place. The message has to be that there is value in purchasing a ticket, and not that most people don't think it's worth going either, which is what the attendance numbers conversation is saying.

Yeah, sorry I even waded back into it.  I was just honestly surprised to see such a tiny crowd so late in the season.  I would kill to be able to go to lots of games at the Prog.  Though they seem to lose every game I go to, no matter where it is. I had to finally stop seeing them in Yankee stadium after witnessing so many straight losses.  I braved it in Fenway this year and saw them lose there too. Annoyingly bad luck for several years now.

Can we just get over the attendance thing. It's not gonna be 30,000 every night until about September if we stay in it. It'll take a couple years to get those season tix sales back up. Fridays and Saturdays will do we'll, everything else 20kish. Just accept it for now. Still interested and great fans. Fwiw, I was at the game and it was exciting...winning games we shouldnt

 

Attendance matters, didn't you learn that in school?  Seriously, I wonder also how long Cleveland will have a team.  We have a city of 400k people and how many of those are below the poverty level?  Suburbanites fill the stadium but we now have to compete with Lake Co Captains & whatever goes on at Avon.  TV coverage is so good it's hard to beat watching it at home unless you have really good seats.  Add in a lot of weird weather this summer between cool & cloudy and hot & muggy.  I think attendance numbers of 30k may not happen even IF we get closer to the playoffs.  Everyone gripes about the owners not putting together a competitive team but won't shell out to watch them at the stadium.  Cleveland has cheap-ass fans.

Can we just get over the attendance thing. It's not gonna be 30,000 every night until about September if we stay in it. It'll take a couple years to get those season tix sales back up. Fridays and Saturdays will do we'll, everything else 20kish. Just accept it for now. Still interested and great fans. Fwiw, I was at the game and it was exciting...winning games we shouldnt

 

I don't understand how Milwaukee is averaging more than 30,000 a game for a losing team. Cleveland and Milwaukee are very similar cities. What's the difference?

^ i just believe constistent attendance is built.  I dont think it starts overnight with a winning season.  Kind of like a good restaurant.  It takes a while to have it full every night.  In the 1990s, the jake was full every night, then everyone got really bad food for about a decade.  Now Tito Francona is doing his best Robert Irvine to pick it back up again.  My predicition is with this core, that attendance will fill up by end of august and sept to about/around 30K every night.  Tribe will be in contention and next season more season ticket sales and corporate sales will take place and you will see better attendance next year, and the following and the following. 

 

This conversation is sooooo deja vu.

 

Strasburg is pitching tonight (how the f does a guy with a 2.5 era have a 5-8 record) against the Tigers, so 1.5 back by Wednesday is doable!

 

^ i agree.  I just think we need to not care at this point about the attendance.  Care about the team, not the attendance. 

I just think it's embarrassing. I was asked about it when I was in Cooperstown on Friday when one guy saw my Indians shirt. I mean, how do you give an "elevator answer" to a question like that without crapping on your own city?

Easy. We've been burned too many times (collectively speaking). We are coming off a year where the Indians had record breaking bad August.

 

I personally believe that this team is way better but there are a lot of people who need to see it first. I do believe the excellent TV coverage hurts the attendance numbers big time. The HDTV delay allows us to sit on the porch listening to the radio and then turn to see the big plays live on TV.

 

A move for a bullpen arm  before the deadline would help people believe its for real.

 

For the record, I'll probably go tomorrow night.

Cleveland simply is not a baseball town, never has been, never will be as long as the NFL and Browns are around.  Then there's the issue with Cleveland proper losing half of its population.  This compounded by current ownership that seemingly went out of their to irritate the fan base over the past decade, and we have what we have.

 

As far as out of towners complaining about attendance, here's an idea, how about moving back here and going to some games?  If you're not going to the games yourself, you're part of the problem.

Then there's the issue with Cleveland proper losing half of its population. 

 

 

Really. You think that's part of the problem even though the Cavs and Browns draw very well? OK.

Then there's the issue with Cleveland proper losing half of its population. 

 

 

Really. You think that's part of the problem even though the Cavs and Browns draw very well? OK.

Yes, it's a contributing factor, but not the main one.  That's why I opened with "Cleveland is not a baseball town..." as the primary reason.

Cleveland simply is not a baseball town, never has been, never will be as long as the NFL and Browns are around.  Then there's the issue with Cleveland proper losing half of its population.  This compounded by current ownership that seemingly went out of their to irritate the fan base over the past decade, and we have what we have.

 

As far as out of towners complaining about attendance, here's an idea, how about moving back here and going to some games?  If you're not going to the games yourself, you're part of the problem.

Population is BS, as most Cleveland residents moved to the 'burbs.  There are still 4 million people in the region.  Please stop using this as an excuse in any degree.

 

The issue is the product on the field has not been a consistent winner since the mid 90s!

population has nothing to do with it.  and it is a baseball town.  I would like to see the TV ratings for the tribe.  Dont confuse not going to games with NOT being fans.  Everyone watches the tribe

population has nothing to do with it.  and it is a baseball town.  I would like to see the TV ratings for the tribe.  Dont confuse not going to games with NOT being fans.  Everyone watches the tribe

 

Even non fans!!  I don't find baseball enjoyable to sit and actually watch, but it makes great background noise.  I had the game on last night while doing other things and it was great.  That probably helps their ratings too.

 

Thursday's day game should be Masterson vs. Sale, another awesome matchup.  I'd kill to go to that game.  Also because weekday day games are the best...they feel so naughty.

Cleveland simply is not a baseball town, never has been, never will be as long as the NFL and Browns are around.  Then there's the issue with Cleveland proper losing half of its population.  This compounded by current ownership that seemingly went out of their to irritate the fan base over the past decade, and we have what we have.

 

As far as out of towners complaining about attendance, here's an idea, how about moving back here and going to some games?  If you're not going to the games yourself, you're part of the problem.

Population is BS, as most Cleveland residents moved to the 'burbs.  There are still 4 million people in the region.  Please stop using this as an excuse in any degree.

 

The issue is the product on the field has not been a consistent winner since the mid 90s!

Population loss of the inner core is a fact though not an "excuse" for low baseball attendance.  Cleveland just isn't a baseball town, or a town that supports their team by showing up and cheering at games, however you want to word it..  Even in their last playoff run 5 years ago, they were seldom getting 30K in Aug/Sept, and they'd been in the playoff's more than not the previous decade.

 

Saying attendance is low due only to bad teams is the "excuse" here.

Can we just get over the attendance thing. It's not gonna be 30,000 every night until about September if we stay in it. It'll take a couple years to get those season tix sales back up. Fridays and Saturdays will do we'll, everything else 20kish. Just accept it for now. Still interested and great fans. Fwiw, I was at the game and it was exciting...winning games we shouldnt

 

I don't understand how Milwaukee is averaging more than 30,000 a game for a losing team. Cleveland and Milwaukee are very similar cities. What's the difference?

Milwaukee fans tailgate at baseball games, not kidding. Whisky Badger and Green Bay fans are very dedicated also.

Cleveland simply is not a baseball town, never has been, never will be as long as the NFL and Browns are around.  Then there's the issue with Cleveland proper losing half of its population.  This compounded by current ownership that seemingly went out of their to irritate the fan base over the past decade, and we have what we have.

 

As far as out of towners complaining about attendance, here's an idea, how about moving back here and going to some games?  If you're not going to the games yourself, you're part of the problem.

Population is BS, as most Cleveland residents moved to the 'burbs.  There are still 4 million people in the region.  Please stop using this as an excuse in any degree.

 

The issue is the product on the field has not been a consistent winner since the mid 90s!

Population loss of the inner core is a fact though not an "excuse" for low baseball attendance.  Cleveland just isn't a baseball town, or a town that supports their team by showing up and cheering at games, however you want to word it..  Even in their last playoff run 5 years ago, they were seldom getting 30K in Aug/Sept, and they'd been in the playoff's more than not the previous decade.

 

Saying attendance is low due only to bad teams is the "excuse" here.

 

Show me what the indians have done to:

• Increase attendance
  
• Increase fan experience - based against other teams
  

 

 

The overall Indians OVERALL product experience is lacking.

^I don't understand what you're requesting.  The team has countless promotions.  They have one of the savviest marketing departments in all of baseball: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=19854  What they don't have is a deep customer base for tickets, apparently.

 

I hate that people frame this as "blaming" fans, or making "excuses."  That attendance is awful is objectively true, and there may be explanations, but the collective guilt stuff is dumb.  It's not a moral failing.  And really, there probably isn't a single tidy explanation, certainly none that doesn't also apply to other cities with better attendance. it's probably a little bit of everything, from the interest level of the median fan, the decline of corporate HQs, sprawl, economic fortunes of the region, etc. None of us can really say for sure.

Cleveland simply is not a baseball town, never has been, never will be as long as the NFL and Browns are around.  Then there's the issue with Cleveland proper losing half of its population.  This compounded by current ownership that seemingly went out of their to irritate the fan base over the past decade, and we have what we have.

 

As far as out of towners complaining about attendance, here's an idea, how about moving back here and going to some games?  If you're not going to the games yourself, you're part of the problem.

 

Isn't a baseball town? Never has been?

Look at 1948. The late 40s and early 50s. Even the 1970s -- the nadir of the Indians' existence -- had record crowds that stand to this day. The biggest opening day crowd in baseball history was in Cleveland in 1973 on a dreary, damp, blustery April day when 74,420 hope-springs-eternal fools (including me) showed up at the cavernous cathedral of baseball as the lake wind whipped around the upper and lower decks. I was at half a dozen 60,000-plus and 70,000-plus crowds at Municipal Stadium in the 70s -- usually an opening day or a 4th of July weekend series against the hated Yankees. One year, the Tribe drew almost 200,000 in a single weekend for a series against the Yanks. In one of the 1948 World Series games in Cleveland, attendance was 86,000. (The day before, it was a paltry 81,000.) That's in addition to the sellouts through the 90s, and the 3.5 million through the Jake's gates in 1999.

 

I don't have a clear explanation for the current dismal attendance. But I know it's wrong to say Cleveland never has been and never will be a baseball town. It has been, and it will be again, the Browns notwithstanding.

it certainly is a baseball town.  Once again, dont confuse NOT goign to games, with people NOT caring or NOT being fans.  Its not a baseball town first and foremost, but its certainly a baseball town

We all know that decimated Detroit, which just declared bankruptcy, is packing 'em in a stadium in a city and a downtown that's far lacking in terms of the charm, amenities and public transpiration we have here in Cleveland.  And their supporting a Detroit team, one that many have ticketed for the World Series, that is currently underperforming ... they're just 2.5 games ahead of us and, as of this moment, we're about 1/2 game out of the 2nd Wild Card playoff spot... At this point, I'm through gnashing my teeth about our attendance.  I go to games occasionally, and I enjoy the product for what it is regardless of how many other fans are sitting around me.

 

I just want us to go out and pick up a relief pitcher before tomorrow's trading deadline.  Our rotation is really clicking now.

^I don't understand what you're requesting.  The team has countless promotions.  They have one of the savviest marketing departments in all of baseball: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=19854  What they don't have is a deep customer base for tickets, apparently.

 

I hate that people frame this as "blaming" fans, or making "excuses."  That attendance is awful is objectively true, and there may be explanations, but the collective guilt stuff is dumb.  It's not a moral failing.  And really, there probably isn't a single tidy explanation, certainly none that doesn't also apply to other cities with better attendance. it's probably a little bit of everything, from the interest level of the median fan, the decline of corporate HQs, sprawl, economic fortunes of the region, etc. None of us can really say for sure.

Who is blaming the fans.  THE BOTTOM LINE is the Indians organization has not put out a quality product.  People are fickled and you're remembered by your previous season.  They team has choked the past few years. They play in Spring/Summer when people have more outdoor options.   

 

In direct comparison to the CAVS who plain old suck on court, they play in Winter, but you have a great time at a game.  Its a combination of a lot of things but mainly the product on the field.

We all know that decimated Detroit, which just declared bankruptcy, is packing 'em in a stadium in a city and a downtown that's far lacking in terms of the charm, amenities and public transpiration we have here in Cleveland.  And their supporting a Detroit team, one that many have ticketed for the World Series, that is currently underperforming ... they're just 2.5 games ahead of us and, as of this moment, we're about 1/2 game out of the 2nd Wild Card playoff spot... At this point, I'm through gnashing my teeth about our attendance.  I go to games occasionally, and I enjoy the product for what it is regardless of how many other fans are sitting around me.

 

I just want us to go out and pick up a relief pitcher before tomorrow's trading deadline.  Our rotation is really clicking now.

Think about it, what else in Detroit do they have to be happy about?

So we get a lefty relief pitcher, who didn't pitch in the bigs this year? Huh?

population has nothing to do with it.  and it is a baseball town.  I would like to see the TV ratings for the tribe.  Dont confuse not going to games with NOT being fans.  Everyone watches the tribe

 

This is very true.  Attendance is a MLB problem, not just Cleveland.  Then you have a commissioner coming through substance abuse scandals and bragging about attendance figures being up, fully exposing himself as a 20th century "old guard" thinker. 

 

Sports are now built on television and ratings.  Hockey has amazing attendance, but still barely makes a dent on the American radar as a fourth sport.  The NFL kicks all them to the curb, and it's largely been built on TV deals--not butts in seats.

Think about it, what else in Detroit do they have to be happy about?

 

I see your point.  Unlike here, sports is about the only diversion in Detroit, aside from a riverfront concert or festival or an Auto Show from time to time.

Great comeback tonight! Clutch hit by Raburn!

Nothing wrong with that quality product tonight! 

 

Think about it, what else in Detroit do they have to be happy about?

 

I see your point.  Unlike here, sports is about the only diversion in Detroit, aside from a riverfront concert or festival or an Auto Show from time to time.

 

Is this sarcasm?  Good god, you guys sound like the rest of the country dumping on Cleveland.

Nothing wrong with that quality product tonight! 

 

Think about it, what else in Detroit do they have to be happy about?

 

I see your point.  Unlike here, sports is about the only diversion in Detroit, aside from a riverfront concert or festival or an Auto Show from time to time.

 

Is this sarcasm?  Good god, you guys sound like the rest of the country dumping on Cleveland.

It's me, what do you think?

Yeah, I think my sarcasm meter was broken there.  Sorry guys.

I heard someone say that season tickets are a major factor in attendance, especially in the first half of the season, and the tribe doesn't have that many (comparatively) season ticket holders.  I don't know this to be true, but it did make me pause to consider.

They won't release the figures, but most estimates put season tickets at 7500-8000 for 2013.

looking ahead, if anyone is heading up to detroit for that important series, 8/6 is masterson vs verlander.

population has nothing to do with it.  and it is a baseball town.  I would like to see the TV ratings for the tribe.  Dont confuse not going to games with NOT being fans.  Everyone watches the tribe

 

This is very true.  Attendance is a MLB problem, not just Cleveland.  Then you have a commissioner coming through substance abuse scandals and bragging about attendance figures being up, fully exposing himself as a 20th century "old guard" thinker. 

 

Sports are now built on television and ratings.  Hockey has amazing attendance, but still barely makes a dent on the American radar as a fourth sport.  The NFL kicks all them to the curb, and it's largely been built on TV deals--not butts in seats.

 

I follow the local ratings very closely as it is part of my job, and the numbers are up slightly over what I had projected based on a rolling average over the last few years.  Through May the A35+ Live+7 numbers were 4.0 rating average per game, which was up over my projected 3.5.  In June, the number has increased to 4.4 rating.  So at least by one indicator, interest in the team is growing.

 

Dont forget radio where people intentionally listen over TV due to our broadcasting talent.  I just refuse to believe our fan base has diminished or this isnt a "baseball town".  People care alot, its just not convenient for 40K to go right now every night. 

looking ahead, if anyone is heading up to detroit for that important series, 8/6 is masterson vs verlander.

 

Series is at home...

looking ahead, if anyone is heading up to detroit for that important series, 8/6 is masterson vs verlander.

 

Series is at home...

 

ha yeah i just noticed that. its marlins that are away.

 

good to hear tv ratings are up, but a home detroit series will show how interested the fans truly are this year.

 

 

Santana got pissed about that strike so he decided to pull it out of there.  Another walkoff

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quality product!

How in the hell did we win?? I gave up on the game when the ChiSox went ahead 5-3 in the 9th.

good to hear tv ratings are up, but a home detroit series will show how interested the fans truly are this year.

 

I'll be doing my part and taking my nephew to his first big league baseball game (he goes to the local minor league team games back home all the time.)

Holy mother of PEARL!