The Indians have the best record in the AL right now by 2 games (although Boston is surging).  Also, they are only 1 game behind the Cubs, the best team in all of MLB.

I wonder what people think about trading prospects to get an arm or bat before the trading deadline... Chris Fedor makes the salient point that, trading away prospects would be especially harmful and counter intuitive to a small market, limited budget team like the Indians who, in recent years, have been especially strong in developing its homegrown young talent... Makes sense to me.

 

I can see both sides of the argument. This team is playing so well right now and there's no guarantee that adding a guy like Lucroy or Miller makes a huge difference during the regular season. However with the nature of the postseason, I do think adding another bat or bullpen guy could help. So do you put future at stake for one shot at a title in 2016? For what it's worth, Lucroy has a club option for 2017, and with many of the current roster players locked up well past then, on paper the Tribe is set up well for next year, too.

^Indeed. If the goal is to maximize championships, it's probably a toss up which approach is better: double down on years when you know you're competitive, or try to increase the number of years you might be competitive, even if it means wasting talent on teams going nowhere.

The Indians have the best record in the AL right now by 2 games (although Boston is surging).  Also, they are only 1 game behind the Cubs, the best team in all of MLB.

The Indians have destroyed the AL Central (30-13) but are a combined 18-20 against the AL East & West.  They need to make a move or two if they want to get past the Red Sox and/or Rangers.

^Indeed. If the goal is to maximize championships, it's probably a toss up which approach is better: double down on years when you know you're competitive, or try to increase the number of years you might be competitive, even if it means wasting talent on teams going nowhere.

 

The other thing I like about going after Lucroy with thoughts of it being an investment in next year is that Yan Gomes, even before this injury, even before the terrible first half, has been on a slow but steady decline offensively since 2013. He's pushing 30, which isn't that old, but I don't think there's any guarantee he'll ever come back to 2013/2014 form. Lucroy had a slightly down year last year (at least for him), but he's bounced back and plays a solid defensive catcher. Considering how little production this team has gotten from catcher this year, he'd be a huge additive boost. I like Jay Bruce, but he would come in and have to play a position where the Tribe already has average to above-average offensive production.

well getting out of an immediate 3 run hole was a lot to ask:

 

http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/gamecast?gameId=360722101&version=mobile&appsrc=sc

 

Funny how in the year after Mark Shapiro leaves the front office, the Indians make some ballsy trades that involve spending money and making the team better right now for a run at the World Series not just this year, but possibly for the next two years.

 

Indians gave up very little for C Jonathon Lucroy, but still have to give him some more money for him to waive his no-trade clause. Hope they get it done.

 

Andrew Miller is a dominant relief pitcher. Question is, will the prospects Frazier and Sheffield be in major-league form while we have this rotation and core lineup in place? If not, then the Miller deal makes sense. Cody Allen will become the Tribe's set-up man. With the bullpen help and another all-star bat in the lineup, Tribe should be the team to beat in the AL this year -- and next!

 

UPDATE -- Lucroy vetoed the trade. SOB!!

F you, Lucroy.

 

Still excited to have Miller, but I really hope they can get another bat before tomorrow.

I really do not like the Andrew Miller trade.  We gave up way too much for a player that is going to be here only two years (not counting this year).  We gave up our #1 prospect who is only 21 years old and is a power hitter which is something that is always valuable and is always one of our needs.  We also gave up our #1 pitching prospect. To me, Clint Frazier was untouchable.  WAY TOO MUCH!

 

The Lucroy trade makes some sense to me although he is only here one year beyond this year.  But, we gave up a very good catching prospect.  Since he is only at low A and even though he is a top prospect, it is still hard to project how good he is going to get.

 

Before the trades, our team was built for a long run at contending.  Our starting pitching was locked up for at least 4 or 5 years (excluding Tomlin).  And we had many prospects coming up through the farm system to help the offense in the future.  We even had a few top starting prospects too.  Now, the minor league system is going to be very depleted.  I am very disappointed.

^ That's an overreaction. This farm system is in no way depleted. Farm systems exist to be a pipeline of talent to the major league club as well as to serve as currency to upgrade the team. Our window to win is RIGHT NOW and we're going for it. It's tough to part with those prospects, but it's a good move.

Frazier hits but hasn't shown as much power as expected thus far.  If now isn't the time to make these moves, when is?  We already have a solid young core and we're drafting a lot better these days, so I'm not super worried about the farm system.

I really wanted Lucroy and that situation annoys me. I guess I don't have a major problem with players having across-the-board no-trade clauses, but when it's only for certain teams, it really messes with a league's competitiveness IMO. Even worse, now one of the Tribe's rivals might land him. Milwaukee gets screwed, too.

Frazier hits but hasn't shown as much power as expected thus far.  If now isn't the time to make these moves, when is?  We already have a solid young core and we're drafting a lot better these days, so I'm not super worried about the farm system.

I've already snagged Frazier in my baseball dynasty league, that's how much I think of him.  But I still make this deal.

I've already snagged Frazier in my baseball dynasty league, that's how much I think of him.  But I still make this deal.

 

Why did you take him? For future seasons as a keeper?

 

Supposedly his power has not developed yet as expected, however I read some analysis that because he has a hitch in his swing he'll benefit from the short right field porch at Yankee Stadium.

I've already snagged Frazier in my baseball dynasty league, that's how much I think of him.  But I still make this deal.

 

Why did you take him? For future seasons as a keeper?

 

 

Yeah, we keep up to twelve every year and when you're not in contention sometimes it pays to grab prospects late in the season.

I really do not like the Andrew Miller trade.  We gave up way too much for a player that is going to be here only two years (not counting this year).  We gave up our #1 prospect who is only 21 years old and is a power hitter which is something that is always valuable and is always one of our needs.  We also gave up our #1 pitching prospect. To me, Clint Frazier was untouchable.  WAY TOO MUCH!

 

The Lucroy trade makes some sense to me although he is only here one year beyond this year.  But, we gave up a very good catching prospect.  Since he is only at low A and even though he is a top prospect, it is still hard to project how good he is going to get.

 

Before the trades, our team was built for a long run at contending.  Our starting pitching was locked up for at least 4 or 5 years (excluding Tomlin).  And we had many prospects coming up through the farm system to help the offense in the future.  We even had a few top starting prospects too.  Now, the minor league system is going to be very depleted.  I am very disappointed.

 

with having Miller the rest of this year and two more years, that is a great trade.  Nothing is guaranteed at all.  You have a window here of core players to try and win a world series.  You do that trade all day and twice on Sunday.  You are going to make the playoffs this year.  You cannot trust this pen, even if they aren't blowing games, they are flirting with it.  You just got the most desired back end arm in all of baseball.  I was a big frazier fan, but before you crown him, remember we got Matt Laporta for CC who was coveted at an ELITE level.  If we didn't get Brantley in that trade, we would've completely busted.  We also gave up pomeranz and alex white for jimenez and the world came crashing down...that got us a playoff run in 2013 and those other guys are worse than all of our starting 5.

I really wanted Lucroy and that situation annoys me. I guess I don't have a major problem with players having across-the-board no-trade clauses, but when it's only for certain teams, it really messes with a league's competitiveness IMO. Even worse, now one of the Tribe's rivals might land him. Milwaukee gets screwed, too.

 

The Lucroy situation is laughable and I don't blame the Indians one bit.  The only winner here is Lucroy (sort of).  I mean he is going to play two more years of ball for a crappy team, but is likely going to protect any other variables that may impact his next and likely final contract.  That's a guy who cares about himself.  OK...so we wont blame him for that.  But we cant also blame the tribe for saying no thanks.  No one player is bigger than the organization and I love that precedent.  The tribe aren't going to get pushed around by some Milwaukee brewer.  You want guaranteed play time next year?  go earn it.  They aren't going to bend over backwards for a me first guy and I applaud that.  The brewers lose because thye likely don't have a future with him and they don't get prospects, the tribe misses out on filling a hole in the lineup, and Lucroy misses out on playing October baseball..  Hope its worth it for him.

Yeah, we keep up to twelve every year and when you're not in contention sometimes it pays to grab prospects late in the season.

 

Maybe not a bad idea, he projects to be ready as soon as next year.

The Lucroy situation is laughable and I don't blame the Indians one bit.  The only winner here is Lucroy (sort of).  I mean he is going to play two more years of ball for a crappy team, but is likely going to protect any other variables that may impact his next and likely final contract.  That's a guy who cares about himself.  OK...so we wont blame him for that.  But we cant also blame the tribe for saying no thanks.  No one player is bigger than the organization and I love that precedent.  The tribe aren't going to get pushed around by some Milwaukee brewer.  You want guaranteed play time next year?  go earn it.  They aren't going to bend over backwards for a me first guy and I applaud that.  The brewers lose because thye likely don't have a future with him and they don't get prospects, the tribe misses out on filling a hole in the lineup, and Lucroy misses out on playing October baseball..  Hope its worth it for him.

 

To be clear, I'm not even sure that the discussion was really about playing time. It seems that Lucroy thinks he's worth more than what he'll be paid next year (and he's right on that), so he was trying to use some leverage to get out of that player option. That's fine, but the Indians couldn't give up the same haul for a half-year rental. What makes the Miller trade so beneficial is that they've got control of him for the next few years. If Lucroy is dealt at the deadline, I really hope it's to the Mets and not the Tigers or Rangers.

 

And as for that Miller trade, the Indians now have arguably one of the best back ends of the bullpen in baseball. I still think they desperately need another bat (even upgrading catcher slightly with a guy like Suzuki would work for me), but this team has the pitching pieces in place to really dominate in the postseason.

And as for that Miller trade, the Indians now have arguably one of the best back ends of the bullpen in baseball. I still think they desperately need another bat (even upgrading catcher slightly with a guy like Suzuki would work for me), but this team has the pitching pieces in place to really dominate in the postseason.

 

I agree that they need a bat, but not desperately.  Desperately means they might trade for Beltran or Bruce, which I would prefer they NOT do. 

Yeah, we keep up to twelve every year and when you're not in contention sometimes it pays to grab prospects late in the season.

 

Maybe not a bad idea, he projects to be ready as soon as next year.

 

It's how I got George Springer and Trevor Story.

2016 MLB Predictions

Each team’s rating and its chances of advancing to the playoffs.

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-mlb-predictions/

Indians with 2nd best record in MLB and can barely draw 30K to home games.  Sad.

Indians with 2nd best record in MLB and can barely draw 30K to home games.  Sad.

You do know that their home field "barely holds" 30K people, right??

Indians with 2nd best record in MLB and can barely draw 30K to home games.  Sad.

You do know that their home field "barely holds" 30K people, right??

 

Because....they took seats out in RF since they couldn't sell them, no?

Indians with 2nd best record in MLB and can barely draw 30K to home games.  Sad.

You do know that their home field "barely holds" 30K people, right??

 

23K for yesterday's game was disappointing.  It was a Sunday afternoon and the weather wasn't terrible.  And I don't care whether Oakland is a crappy team (and they were hot until they came into the Pro), fans should be getting behind the Indians.  They are one of the League's best and, yet, it seems it still takes either the Yankees or some fireworks display or giveaway to get butts into seats... It shouldn't be this way, especially in a downtown that's exploding and one of the best rail and bus transit access to the stadium in America.  The Twins routinely draw more than this and they're among the worst teams in the MLB.  Some say that these figures reflect the fact that Minneapolis' stadium is new and the Jake/Progressive Field is 22 years old.  I'm not buying this.  Although our field isn't new, it is still considered one of the top retro-parks in the league.  People still make Baltimore's Camden Yards park an outing, and it's older than Progressive Field.  And this whole Dolan's cheap mentality is old and tired.

 

I just don't get Indians' fans but, hey, I only care about winning the WS.  Maybe this is just a Cavs, Browns town right now, but hopefully the Tribe will win fans over.

Indians with 2nd best record in MLB and can barely draw 30K to home games.  Sad.

You do know that their home field "barely holds" 30K people, right??

 

Because....they took seats out in RF since they couldn't sell them, no?

Did the Indians have the 2nd best record in baseball when they took the seats out?

The Indians have to win fans back. Yesterday's moves really helped. First time I can remember in a long time the Indians being aggressive.

I think the "Dolans are cheap" legacy is still at work here.  They aren't as cheap anymore, but they were so cheap for so long that fans felt exploited and insulted.  That said, I don't believe in grudges and it's time for people to start showing up.  I've only been to one game this year myself but I'm shooting for several more.

until they came into the Pro

 

First time I heard this one, of course most people I know still call it Jacobs or the Jake.

Indians with 2nd best record in MLB and can barely draw 30K to home games.  Sad.

You do know that their home field "barely holds" 30K people, right??

 

Because....they took seats out in RF since they couldn't sell them, no?

Did the Indians have the 2nd best record in baseball when they took the seats out?

Indians with 2nd best record in MLB and can barely draw 30K to home games.  Sad.

You do know that their home field "barely holds" 30K people, right??

 

23K for yesterday's game was disappointing.  It was a Sunday afternoon and the weather wasn't terrible.  And I don't care whether Oakland is a crappy team (and they were hot until they came into the Pro), fans should be getting behind the Indians.  They are one of the League's best and, yet, it seems it still takes either the Yankees or some fireworks display or giveaway to get butts into seats... It shouldn't be this way, especially in a downtown that's exploding and one of the best rail and bus transit access to the stadium in America.  The Twins routinely draw more than this and they're among the worst teams in the MLB.  Some say that these figures reflect the fact that Minneapolis' stadium is new and the Jake/Progressive Field is 22 years old.  I'm not buying this.  Although our field isn't new, it is still considered one of the top retro-parks in the league.  People still make Baltimore's Camden Yards park an outing, and it's older than Progressive Field.  And this whole Dolan's cheap mentality is old and tired.

 

I just don't get Indians' fans but, hey, I only care about winning the WS.  Maybe this is just a Cavs, Browns town right now, but hopefully the Tribe will win fans over.

 

I disagree with this.  I think 23K is fine.  Its a big league crowd and frankly, people have lives like to do other things when the weather is gorgeous.  Having 6K at a game is something to be sad about, but not 23K.  I still don't buy that Indians fans are bad fans because they don't go to games.  Its the stupidest label.  Like me, im a HUGE Indians fans. Im a kid who grew up in the 90's.  I follow the team very closely and listen to almost every game I can on the radio.  I can only go to 2-3 games per year.  That's just the reality of it.  Im a great fan though.  I suspect there is a lot of that going on.  I think its respectable if the tribe have a middle of the road attendance.  Its a long season, if you are not a baseball "purist" who are watching every pitch and what the pitchers are throwing, lets face it, it can lack a lot of the excitement that other sports have. 

 

I think people freak out about the attendance because they somehow associate low attendance with the idea that the Indians will bolt town.  I don't see that happening with the current contract through like 2032.  Or if players will leave.  Maybe.  But players love playing for Francona and Terry I don't think minds the smaller crowds.  As long as he is here, I think players will be happy to play here and as we are seeing lately, win and the crowds will come.

Tribe DFA'd Juan Uribe and quietly (I think?) picked up Brandon Guyer. I really like this pickup. His .241 batting average is deceiving; he has an on-base percentage of .347 and he does particularly well against left-handed pitching. Not a huge splash, but certainly upgrades the lineup a bit. It looks like maybe Ramirez takes over the 3B spot on a permanent basis?

Clevelanders seem to be different baseball fans. But they are baseball fans. Their TV ratings are very high even if their attendance is not. That tells me Clevelanders care about the Indians even if they don't want to watch every second of a game. For me, I watch almost every single game. That is, I have the game on TV but I'm doing other things at the same time. If something big happens, I run the DVR back and see it again. But I have been to Progressive Field only twice the season. I will definitely get tickets to at least one of the home playoff games. Nothing better and more tense than playoff baseball.

I really do not like the Andrew Miller trade.  We gave up way too much for a player that is going to be here only two years (not counting this year).  We gave up our #1 prospect who is only 21 years old and is a power hitter which is something that is always valuable and is always one of our needs.  We also gave up our #1 pitching prospect. To me, Clint Frazier was untouchable.  WAY TOO MUCH!

 

The Lucroy trade makes some sense to me although he is only here one year beyond this year.  But, we gave up a very good catching prospect.  Since he is only at low A and even though he is a top prospect, it is still hard to project how good he is going to get.

 

Before the trades, our team was built for a long run at contending.  Our starting pitching was locked up for at least 4 or 5 years (excluding Tomlin).  And we had many prospects coming up through the farm system to help the offense in the future.  We even had a few top starting prospects too.  Now, the minor league system is going to be very depleted.  I am very disappointed.

 

with having Miller the rest of this year and two more years, that is a great trade.  Nothing is guaranteed at all.  You have a window here of core players to try and win a world series.  You do that trade all day and twice on Sunday.  You are going to make the playoffs this year.  You cannot trust this pen, even if they aren't blowing games, they are flirting with it.  You just got the most desired back end arm in all of baseball.  I was a big frazier fan, but before you crown him, remember we got Matt Laporta for CC who was coveted at an ELITE level.  If we didn't get Brantley in that trade, we would've completely busted.  We also gave up pomeranz and alex white for jimenez and the world came crashing down...that got us a playoff run in 2013 and those other guys are worse than all of our starting 5.

 

Looks like I am the only one to not like this trade and I am entitled to my opinion.

 

My point is that our window of opportunity is at least 4 or 5 years with the core of our players and especially the starting pitching who are controlled throughout that time frame.  Then, add the young players that WERE coming up the pipeline and we would have been a beast for 4 or 5 years.  And we had 3 or 4 young pitchers to take over when the current group reaches free agency.

 

When Frazier is an all star year after year, this trade is not going to look so good.  And I did not realize that one of the prospects throws in the upper 90's.

 

My comment on depleting the farm system took into account the Lucroy trade which was still on the table when I made my post.

 

And speaking of Lucroy, I hope he gets heat stroke playing in the Texas heat.  I used to live in Dallas and I like Dallas, but because of the heat and a park without a dome, it is the worst place to play baseball in the major leagues.

Looks like I am the only one to not like this trade and I am entitled to my opinion.

 

My point is that our window of opportunity is at least 4 or 5 years with the core of our players and especially the starting pitching who are controlled throughout that time frame.  Then, add the young players that WERE coming up the pipeline and we would have been a beast for 4 or 5 years.  And we had 3 or 4 young pitchers to take over when the current group reaches free agency.

 

When Frazier is an all star year after year, this trade is not going to look so good.  And I did not realize that one of the prospects throws in the upper 90's.

 

My comment on depleting the farm system took into account the Lucroy trade which was still on the table when I made my post.

 

And speaking of Lucroy, I hope he gets heat stroke playing in the Texas heat.  I used to live in Dallas and I like Dallas, but because of the heat and a park without a dome, it is the worst place to play baseball in the major leagues.

 

In the long term, I agree, I hate giving up a prospect haul for a guy that gives you three innings...per week. But if it buys the Tribe a title this year, I don't care about next year.

 

In regards to Texas, while I'm still very bitter about how everything went down with Lucroy, and while I won't go as far as you in wishing bad on him, I was thinking the same thing. Dallas' summers are awful, and even worse for him is that, well, he is a catcher, and wearing that equipment in the heat is no joke.

Looks like I am the only one to not like this trade and I am entitled to my opinion.

 

My point is that our window of opportunity is at least 4 or 5 years with the core of our players and especially the starting pitching who are controlled throughout that time frame.  Then, add the young players that WERE coming up the pipeline and we would have been a beast for 4 or 5 years.  And we had 3 or 4 young pitchers to take over when the current group reaches free agency.

 

When Frazier is an all star year after year, this trade is not going to look so good.  And I did not realize that one of the prospects throws in the upper 90's.

 

My comment on depleting the farm system took into account the Lucroy trade which was still on the table when I made my post.

 

And speaking of Lucroy, I hope he gets heat stroke playing in the Texas heat.  I used to live in Dallas and I like Dallas, but because of the heat and a park without a dome, it is the worst place to play baseball in the major leagues.

 

In the long term, I agree, I hate giving up a prospect haul for a guy that gives you three innings...per week. But if it buys the Tribe a title this year, I don't care about next year.

 

In regards to Texas, while I'm still very bitter about how everything went down with Lucroy, and while I won't go as far as you in wishing bad on him, I was thinking the same thing. Dallas' summers are awful, and even worse for him is that, well, he is a catcher, and wearing that equipment in the heat is no joke.

 

I heard this morning that Lucroy actually wanted to go to the Rangers and that was his first choice.  Is he dumb or what?  And like you point out, he is going to be wearing the catcher's equipment in that scorching heat.  I spent twelve summers in Texas and it is no fun to be outside in their summers.

I heard this morning that Lucroy actually wanted to go to the Rangers and that was his first choice.  Is he dumb or what?  And like you point out, he is going to be wearing the catcher's equipment in that scorching heat.  I spent twelve summers in Texas and it is no fun to be outside in their summers.

 

Well that's wonderful, I think it's problematic when players manipulate midseason trades like this. The Tribe got hosed and the Brewers probably did as well. I hope the Tribe plays the Rangers in the ALCS and old adage of good pitching versus good hitting rings true.

The Indians have to win fans back. Yesterday's moves really helped. First time I can remember in a long time the Indians being aggressive.

 

Why does a 1st place team has to win fans back?  They have been developing a solid team for a number of years.  The "Dolan's cheap" thing is old,... and tired.  The reality is, this is a small market team which, in recent years, has been making a number of good moves.  Sure they blew it with Bourn and Swisher, but they also hired the right manager in Tito, ... the first championship-winning coach or manager hired by any Cleveland team since the Cavs hired Lenny Wilkens in the late 1980s.  They've actually pulled off so nice trades, like Napoli and Miller, and they've been consistently developing a number of players from their farm, like Salazar and, of course, Lindor.  Frankly, I think our baseball attendance is an embarrassment for an otherwise great sports town; now a recent championship winning town!!  Let's hope it turns around...

 

Oops! ... that said,  the Indians are getting mauled by the Twins once again down at the Pro, while the Tigers are winning meaning, tomorrow, our lead will likely have slipped to a mere 3 games.  The team has been flailing since their 14-game streak and the Tigers are on fire.  Our pitching, hitting and defense has been mediocre, otherwise we've been playing great ball! ... Guess this another excuse for fans to stay home, huh?

The Indians are 11-13 since their winning streak

The Indians are 11-13 since their winning streak

 

And the Twins, yes the Twins, are kicking their butts again. What is with the Indians repeatedly getting whipped by the Twins??

The Indians are 11-13 since their winning streak

 

And the Twins, yes the Twins, are kicking their butts again. What is with the Indians repeatedly getting whipped by the Twins??

 

The Indians starting pitching has suddenly forgot how to pitch. Hold the phone. The Indians just scored 6 in the bottom of the 5th to make it 8-6.

... Hold the phone!  Tribe's mounting a major comeback, now 8-6 and we're only through 5 innings.  If we can pull this one out of the fire... I just hope Carrasco hasn't spotted the Twins too big a lead; Carlos surrendered 8 earned runs... sheesh!  Where the hell has our great pitching gone!?  Danny Salazar just went on the DL with elbow inflammation and soreness and will likely be gone 2-3 weeks.  When it rains it pours, now is the time for these guys to show some character. 

The Indians are 11-13 since their winning streak

 

And the Twins, yes the Twins, are kicking their butts again. What is with the Indians repeatedly getting whipped by the Twins??

This is the question I always ask....one of the worst teams in the league and they typically have our number.

Nothing better and more tense than playoff baseball.

 

Playoff hockey.

Nothing better and more tense than playoff baseball.

 

Playoff hockey.

 

False. Playoff baseball >

Minnesota scores 8 runs in 3 innings once again, now lead 8-2 in the bottom of the 4th.  Something is suddenly seriously wrong with this team.  Minnesota obviously matches up well against us but no way should one of the worst teams in the league, at this point in the season with so much on the line for the Tribe, come into our building and completely destroy our star pitching staff in this manner.  We've completely lost focus on pitching and defense.  Detroit has jumped out ahead of the White Sox again tonight, and if the Twins sweep us tomorrow afternoon (and at this point, smart money would  be on Minnesota), we may very well only be up by a single game on Detroit come tomorrow evening...Tito needs to call meeting to try and get in the heads of these guys.

 

We'd all hate to see such a promising season by the Indians go do the tubes.

Go Browns!

Go Browns!

 

I know you don't mean that

 

I know you don't mean that

 

Sure I do. Just not at the exclusion of the Indians.

Just 14,371 attended Progressive Field for the Indians' (Cody Allen) 9th inning grand-slammed collapse last night.  The team is still 6 full games in 1st place over the Motor City Kitties and, yet, is still drawing paltry attendance; 2nd worst in the MLB behind the sorry Tampa Bay Rays... Indians' fans' disinterest in going to games, especially given the great season the team has which, barring a major collapse, will result in a playoff berth, remains a mystery.