Anything having to do with “Spiders” sucks imo; the marketing options are garbage.

I cast my meaningless vote for “Commodores” in honor of Commodore Perry’s victory over the Brits in the Battle of Lake Erie and Cleveland’s obvious nautical history. It just makes so much historical & marketing sense....could be tied into lighthouses, oreboats, etc what have you. 

i dont know why people hate spiders so much?  It has some historical relevance.  Baseball names have always been simple.  I like civic identity (but please no rock n roll references).  Guardians is good, I like Spiders, its on topic (we have spiders here, Cy Young played for the Spiders, the Spiders won a trophy here in 1895).  I also like anything to do with the franchise as a whole, even an individual reference.  

 

Its tough to find a name dealing with Lake Erie that doesnt come off like a minor league team (lake county captains).  Nothing rolls off the tongue smoothly

24 minutes ago, CleCaneFan said:

Anything having to do with “Spiders” sucks imo; the marketing options are garbage.

I cast my meaningless vote for “Commodores” in honor of Commodore Perry’s victory over the Brits in the Battle of Lake Erie and Cleveland’s obvious nautical history. It just makes so much historical & marketing sense....could be tied into lighthouses, oreboats, etc what have you. 

 

Why do marketing options for Spiders suck?

 

I'm 100% all in on Spiders.  I think it sounds great and it's a scary animal!

 

I completely hate guardians and would hate to have to explain to people for the next 10 years what it means... "see we have this bridge and there's these stone figures on it...."

Edited December 14, 20204 yr by smith

Cleveland Steelers anyone? 

J/K

2 hours ago, YABO713 said:

 

The Cleveland WeAcknowledgeTheEuropeanDrivenMassExtinction/GenocideofNativePersons? 

 

Why, that is just way too long for a Tee-shirt. I guess it will eventually evolve into:

 

The Cleveland Watedmegonps

 

The Cleveland River Burners

1 hour ago, smith said:

I completely hate guardians and would hate to have to explain to people for the next 10 years what it means... "see we have this bridge and there's these stone figures on it...."

 

It's not like "Guardians" doesn't work on it's own without the local tie-in.  That just gives it a little extra depth.

6 hours ago, BelievelandD1 said:

i dont know why people hate spiders so much?  It has some historical relevance.  Baseball names have always been simple.  I like civic identity (but please no rock n roll references).  Guardians is good, I like Spiders, its on topic (we have spiders here, Cy Young played for the Spiders, the Spiders won a trophy here in 1895).  I also like anything to do with the franchise as a whole, even an individual reference.  

 

Its tough to find a name dealing with Lake Erie that doesnt come off like a minor league team (lake county captains).  Nothing rolls off the tongue smoothly

 

I agree with this post.  I really don't want some rock and roll reference either. Spiders are interesting creatures and lots of cool art and logos can be done with them. And of course, we have the historical connection with the Spiders being here before. I assume there is no issue of re-using the name that was once a National League team in the AL.

 

 

6 hours ago, X said:

 

It's not like "Guardians" doesn't work on it's own without the local tie-in.  That just gives it a little extra depth.

Exactly.  How many people know why we are the Browns or the Cavaliers or even the history behind the Indians for that matter.

1 hour ago, Pugu said:

 

I agree with this post.  I really don't want some rock and roll reference either. Spiders are interesting creatures and lots of cool art and logos can be done with them. And of course, we have the historical connection with the Spiders being here before. I assume there is no issue of re-using the name that was once a National League team in the AL.

 

 

First off, I’m a fairly liberal person and I consider myself sensitive to those in this country that have been dealt and/or still are getting a bad deal - and Native Americans are atop that list IMHO - but how many people were actually offended by the name Cleveland Indians? That term was clearly never intended as some form of insult - the history of indigenous people in Ohio is obviously honored by the naming of many of our towns and counties.    If it’s about cultural appropriation (hot term du hour) then say goodbye to The Chiefs and the Braves.  Then,  the Cowboys and Rangers for their histories and   associations.  Having said that, and assuming there will be very little objection to the name change - onto the new mascots. A big no vote on   “Spiders”  Why?  - just ask your wives or girlfriends  - it is a creature loathed by many and not in a admiring way - Spiders are not quite the “ Cockroaches” or “Mice” of the world  but they are often despised.  I think we can be more aspirational. Guardians probably has a “Gen Z”appeal because of the huge movie franchise and it’s no big deal if it’s not a perfectly  Cleveland reference. (Although given Superman’s connection it wouldn’t be a gigantic leap)  Finally, I’m not quite getting why the negative opinions on a “rock n roll” reference given the city’s history and most iconic attraction - I’d take Rockers over insects anytime. 

^"Rockers" is cheesy. So is "Guitars."  Re the "wives and girlfriends" reference, I don't think their dislike or fear of spiders will affect their love of the game or support of the team. But also, I don't think the feeling towards spiders---as the creatures--is limited only to women.  But people are smart enough to make the distinction between a real spider and a baseball team. And in fact, "Cleveland Spiders" is cool--and edgy. Its the not same as "cockroaches" which are menacing and gross and associated with filth or garbage or squalor. And spiders are NOT insects (per your last sentence). I'm personally NOT offended by the "Cleveland Indians" but I do recognize that many many people are and as such its time for a change. Change is not always bad and 'changing with the times' is sometimes the right course of action.

 

 

Cleveland Kurents. 

 

They already have bats and cowbells, it's a match made in heaven lol

 

7 hours ago, CleveFan said:

First off, I’m a fairly liberal person and I consider myself sensitive to those in this country that have been dealt and/or still are getting a bad deal - and Native Americans are atop that list IMHO - but how many people were actually offended by the name Cleveland Indians? That term was clearly never intended as some form of insult - the history of indigenous people in Ohio is obviously honored by the naming of many of our towns and counties.    If it’s about cultural appropriation (hot term du hour) then say goodbye to The Chiefs and the Braves. 

 

MLB baseball is broadcast around the country and around the world.  So the advertising of the Cleveland name travels far.  The Chiefs and Braves are on their way out, too -- it's just a matter of time.  And you're incorrect, historically the name was intended as an insult.  Here's just one story:  https://www.nbcnews.com/news/sports/some-native-americans-applaud-cleveland-indians-name-change-say-it-n1251183

 

This country is great for its immigrants and its cultural melting pot, bringing people of all kinds together, respecting and celebrating and learning from our differences.  Of course, that did not often extend to the native peoples living here.  In changing the name, we can remove an insult to the descendants of those native peoples.  It's not about how many of those native Americans or others are offended.  And in making this change we can can spare young native Americans from having to hear the insult in the midst of the sports scores.  It's not the greatest hardship this city will have to endure. 

8 hours ago, CleveFan said:

First off, I’m a fairly liberal person and I consider myself sensitive to those in this country that have been dealt and/or still are getting a bad deal - and Native Americans are atop that list IMHO - but how many people were actually offended by the name Cleveland Indians? That term was clearly never intended as some form of insult - the history of indigenous people in Ohio is obviously honored by the naming of many of our towns and counties.

 

I tend to agree, but sports team names come and go for all kinds of reasons.

 

When I moved to Akron, we were the proud home of the Akron Aeros, before some marketing genius came up with the cringeworthy brain fart of renaming the team the RubberDucks.  (All one word.  Not that it matters once you've settled on that particular concatenation of syllables.)

The Rubberducks---that's a horrible name!

I always heard the name Guardians without context and hated it. I don't know a lot about Cleveland, so I didn't know the history of the statues. The only thing I don't like about the name is that it sounds like the name a TV show or movie would give to a sports team when they couldn't get the rights to use the real team name by the league. It's what they named an XFL team, which reinforces that perception.

 

As an outsider, it sounds like a generic name. But I'm sure it would be a fun name for anyone in Cleveland due to the local tie in.

I just realized the name Guardians is quite similar to Indians.  Dolan could save a lot of money on new uniforms by just replacing the letters IN with GUAR.  😆

26 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

I always heard the name Guardians without context and hated it. I don't know a lot about Cleveland, so I didn't know the history of the statues. ...

 

As an outsider, it sounds like a generic name. But I'm sure it would be a fun name for anyone in Cleveland due to the local tie in.

 

Heh.  Calling the team the Guardians won't actually get locals calling them the Guardians all that quickly, either way.  The team will still be referred to locally as the Indians or the Tribe until a new generation of fans comes along.

 

Case in point: It's been 12 years since their park was renamed Progressive Field.  I routinely still hear it referred to as "the Jake," and I once got a "you're not from around here, are you?"-type reaction when I called it Progressive Field.  That was sometime around 2014 or 2015.

 

ETA I didn't ask those guys if Akron counted as "around here."

And when referring to the teams of yesteryear, it will still be the Indians.

2 hours ago, Pugu said:

The Rubberducks---that's a horrible name!

Its an awful name for a Big League team.  Have you scanned minor league team names across the country? They are suppose to be out there, fun, different, and unique.  I dont mind it, local relevance, plus i like the logo.  Its not some toy Bert and Ernie play with in the bath, its a mean looking duck with some goodyear treading on the logo.  I would be enraged if it was a big league team.  

 

 

47 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

I always heard the name Guardians without context and hated it. I don't know a lot about Cleveland, so I didn't know the history of the statues. The only thing I don't like about the name is that it sounds like the name a TV show or movie would give to a sports team when they couldn't get the rights to use the real team name by the league. It's what they named an XFL team, which reinforces that perception.

 

As an outsider, it sounds like a generic name. But I'm sure it would be a fun name for anyone in Cleveland due to the local tie in.

Yeah the more i think about it...while i dont hate the name and I LOVE the statues here in town, its not really great for a big league team.

 

ONce again, baseball names have always been really simple.  colors of sucks, a cub, a tiger, there are like 5 teams named after birds.  I think if we try to do too much here, it will fall on its face

We could complete the patriotic color lineup in MLB and be the Blue Sox. 😁

12 minutes ago, BelievelandD1 said:

Yeah the more i think about it...while i dont hate the name and I LOVE the statues here in town, its not really great for a big league team.

 

ONce again, baseball names have always been really simple.  colors of socks, a cub, a tiger, there are like 5 teams named after birds.  I think if we try to do too much here, it will fall on its face

 

5 hours ago, Pugu said:

^"Rockers" is cheesy. So is "Guitars."  Re the "wives and girlfriends" reference, I don't think their dislike or fear of spiders will affect their love of the game or support of the team. But also, I don't think the feeling towards spiders---as the creatures--is limited only to women.  But people are smart enough to make the distinction between a real spider and a baseball team. And in fact, "Cleveland Spiders" is cool--and edgy. Its the not same as "cockroaches" which are menacing and gross and associated with filth or garbage or squalor. And spiders are NOT insects (per your last sentence). I'm personally NOT offended by the "Cleveland Indians" but I do recognize that many many people are and as such its time for a change. Change is not always bad and 'changing with the times' is sometimes the right course of action.

 

Thank you - I stand corrected about Spiders   Never was great in zoology.  I would've been more correct to put spiders in the company of ticks, daddy long legs and mites.  As far as spiders being cool and edgy - that's an opinion.  To more than a few, they are simply menacing and scary. My opinion is that a more aspirational mascot is preferable.  Monikers should conjure not just a fear element, but strength, respect and inspiration.  Hence, the replacement of a team name such as, "Bullets".  The reaction to an Eagle, Lion, Tiger, Bear, Hawk, Bronco, etc -  more universally evokes a certain awe.  According to an NBC "Sportsworld" piece,  (https://sportsworld.nbcsports.com/cleveland-indians-nickname-sockalexis/)   regarding the history of the Cleveland Indians name - the name "Spiders" was actually despised by the majority of Cleveland fans during their tenure.  As for the term Indians being pejorative as @Forakerand others posted,  American history is rife with terms appropriated for use as an insult - and terms identifying groups of people in general have been more problematic due to a predilection towards tribalism in our history.  But was the adoption of the name "Indians" in 1914 meant to specifically insult indigenous people?  I  strongly reject that premise, though it lacked the sensitivity and perspective we have more than 100 years later.  The NBC article outlines how the name was partly a nod to the history of the Native American player Sockalexis but probably more of a reflection of the popular culture in the United States, at that time, in the year 1914  -when the Boston "Braves" were the main influencers in baseball.   But, I realize that interpretation will remain a Rorschach Test -  depending on each person's world view.  This  "argument" won't be resolved  anytime soon.  We could debate the origins of the word "indian" itself in western culture - one  obvious derivation being Columbus' mislabeling of the land that was probably The Bahamas.  However, according to "History.com"  the use of the term "Los Ninos De La Endeo (Children or People of God)  to describe the new world's inhabitants and that evolution to the term "Indian" was equally likely.   My point is  that perspective of what is historical and what is appropriation and misuse of culture has shifted after a century - I understand that and can accept that the replacement of the Indians name by 2022 has honorable intentions (e.g. not just a marketing ploy.).   But I'm just not embracing the Spiders.  

 

https://fansided.com/2020/12/14/mlb-patent-cleveland-new-team-name/

^ That might actually b even lamer than Spiders 🤮

1 hour ago, roman totale XVII said:

^ That might actually b even lamer than Spiders 🤮

 

Will the AAA team be renamed the Green Card Holders, the AA team the Work Visa Holders, and the A team the Undocumented?

12 hours ago, Gramarye said:

 

I tend to agree, but sports team names come and go for all kinds of reasons.

 

When I moved to Akron, we were the proud home of the Akron Aeros, before some marketing genius came up with the cringeworthy brain fart of renaming the team the RubberDucks.  (All one word.  Not that it matters once you've settled on that particular concatenation of syllables.)

 

 

somehow the avons minor league team went with the crushers and avoided the duck tape ducks. 

The Lake Erie [Grape] Crushers- it's a homage to the local grape/winemaking agriculture.

yes or ducks could have been a homage for duck tape hq in avon.

15 minutes ago, X said:

The Lake Erie [Grape] Crushers- it's a homage to the local grape/winemaking agriculture.

Ohio wines are awful (at least Ohio wines made with Ohio grapes), not something you want to pay homage too.  

actually the ohio ice wines have always had some reknown. its not exactly a popular or coveted style of wine though. and the rest not so much lol.

Rockers.

Fellers.

 

Rocker Fellers?

Rockefellers?

 

😁

 

42 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Ohio wines are awful (at least Ohio wines made with Ohio grapes), not something you want to pay homage too.  

 

Blasphemy!

Okay, for those who don't like Spiders and those that do, perhaps a compromise:  The Cleveland Arachnids.  It's refreshing and new, yet pays homage to the past.

 

How about The Cleveland Fire? The team is hot, hot, hot! And it pays tribute to the Cuyahoga of yesteryear and Mayor Perk? 

12 hours ago, mrnyc said:

actually the ohio ice wines have always had some reknown. its not exactly a popular or coveted style of wine though. and the rest not so much lol.

You are right. Most of the Ohio wines I have tried are more dessert wines and I really have never been a dessert wine fan. 

2 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

You are right. Most of the Ohio wines I have tried are more dessert wines and I really have never been a dessert wine fan. 

 

 

yezzz indeed, a refined gentleman would of course choose a grappa or a fine armagnac as a digestif.

 

 

more locally, some distiller type ohioans are into making liquors these days, so we can look to that. 

 

 

fun fact(tiods) via cle distillers:

 

McDonald's restaurants in some European countries serve alcohol because otherwise parents would be less willing to take their children to them.

 

Men in the U.S. who drink alcohol receive about 7% higher wages than do abstainers, according to data from the national Household Survey on Drug Abuse (United States Department of Health and Human Services).

 

Women who drink receive about three and one-half percent higher wages than do abstainers.

 

The United States has the highest minimum drinking age in the entire world.

 

😆

I was totally for the Cleveland Guardians

 

Now, I’m like...

 

I'm not sure what the obsession is with Guardians. And forget about Spiders.  Ugh.

 

Cleveland is supposed to be the Forest City. So how about Lumberjacks?  Yeah, I know that was the name of an old hockey team, but I liked it.  And I think real lumberjacks would be honored to have a team named for them. And how about the clever puns the announcers could use - "Perez really got the lumber on that ball!".

 

 

15 hours ago, skiwest said:

I'm not sure what the obsession is with Guardians. And forget about Spiders.  Ugh.

 

Cleveland is supposed to be the Forest City. So how about Lumberjacks?  Yeah, I know that was the name of an old hockey team, but I liked it.  And I think real lumberjacks would be honored to have a team named for them. And how about the clever puns the announcers could use - "Perez really got the lumber on that ball!".

 

 

Cleveland has never been a lumber city though, at least in its modern time.   When I think Lumberjacks, it brings Seattle, Portland, etc to mind.  Not Cleveland.  

54 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

Cleveland has never been a lumber city though, at least in its modern time.   When I think Lumberjacks, it brings Seattle, Portland, etc to mind.  Not Cleveland.  

 

Depends on what you mean by modern times. I consider most US cities to have operated entirely in modern, industrial revolution times. And on that score, Cleveland was a huge lumber center. The Flats south of the Detroit-Superior were jammed with lumber yards. It's why a fire station was built at Carter and Scranton roads. Check out Sanborn maps into the 1900s to see how much of the Flats just south of downtown was devoted to lumber yards.

 

But I digress......

 

From an outsiders perspective, only people who are from Cleveland, or have a curiosity about cities to an unnatural level (like a lot of people on this forum) would ever know of the Forest City nickname. Absolutely no one else would have ever tied Cleveland to lumberyards or lumberjacks, or forests. At a certain level, the name should be generally understood to represent the city, and I think this is a bad name to do that. No one will understand it. And considering almost every city had large lumber operations (especially in the upper midwest), I don't think it's a good name for a sports team in Cleveland.

Just be The Indians but from the subcontinent.  I mean, Cincinnati is The Bengals, as in Bay of Bengal, as in Bangladesh. 

Just now, jmecklenborg said:

Just be The Indians but from the subcontinent.  I mean, Cincinnati is The Bengals, as in Bay of Bengal, as in Bangladesh. 

 

Nowhere in the name The Bengals do we specify Bengal Tigers.  So Indians could just be Indian cobras, leopards, or anything else they have lurking in the shadows. 

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

Depends on what you mean by modern times. I consider most US cities to have operated entirely in modern, industrial revolution times. And on that score, Cleveland was a huge lumber center. The Flats south of the Detroit-Superior were jammed with lumber yards. It's why a fire station was built at Carter and Scranton roads. Check out Sanborn maps into the 1900s to see how much of the Flats just south of downtown was devoted to lumber yards.

 

But I digress......

 

Hell I lived in Cleveland for a number of years and had no clue about the Forest city moniker. WOuld hardly have described Cleveland in that way. Heck I even went to Lumberjacks hockey games and always throught that was a silly name for a team in Cleveland and did not understand why they would have that name in Cleveland of all places. 

At any rate, is naming a team for the people that chopped down the forest the best way to pay homage to the Forest City?

 

It's almost a shame from the perspective of naming a team that we had a bustling, but diversified industrial base- Steelers, Brewers, or Packers works a lot better than the "Cleveland Diversified Durable Goods Manufacturing Employees".

 

These days we should be the Cleveland Biomedical Researches, the Cleveland Heart Surgeons, or The Cleveland Flo's. edit- The Cleveland Paint!

 

 

On 12/18/2020 at 5:58 PM, skiwest said:

I'm not sure what the obsession is with Guardians. And forget about Spiders.  Ugh.

 

Cleveland is supposed to be the Forest City. So how about Lumberjacks?  Yeah, I know that was the name of an old hockey team, but I liked it.  And I think real lumberjacks would be honored to have a team named for them. And how about the clever puns the announcers could use - "Perez really got the lumber on that ball!".

 

 

 

 

well if not a return to spiders, what about lake flys?

 

i guess that conjures images of a somewhat bothersome, but essentially benign baseball club.  

 

and as for forest citys, there was a sort of modern equivalent. back in the day joe tait quite often used to say, “and rick manning flys out to the left center field warning track again, but he got good wood on the ball.”  😆

If the baseball team plans to go semi-nameless for a while, couldn't they at least get a better "C" for the caps? How about the one from the almost-a-trademark Cleveland signs around town? They might even use the whole word on the uniforms.

 

here’s covid era gimmee — the cleveland guardians sponsored by go guardian.