Browns make the playoffs once in 10 years and people still fill up that stadium to watch that awful mess.

 

Hell the Indians went 80-82 last year. When was the last time the Browns were better than 8-8? Embarassing.

 

It's one of the best places to watch baseball. Cleveland deserves the barbs on this one.

 

 

 

Terrible comparison.  If the indians played 8 games per year at home, you can guarantee they would be sold out.  81 games. 81!!  Tens of thousands of people arent worried about missing tonights game, because they know they can go 40 more times this summer.  If you miss a Browns game, you basically miss 1/8 of the season.  Plus, completely different crowds.  half the browns audience goes to act like its st. patricks day.

 

So Cleveland is too small a market for 81 home games? Every other MLB city dosen't seem to have this problem. The attendance is horrific compared to the rest of the MLB.

^ to add another point.  Dont misinterpret this coming from me because im a huge fan.  Ill be there tonight for my 4th game.  The tribe sold out in the 90's 455 straight times, because essentially tribe fans were witnessing as close to greatness as it comes in this town.  They were royalty. Alomar, Thome, Vizquel. Lofton.  Household names.  Same with the Lebron era.  Try convincing a casual sports fan that they are watching greatness.  Throw a couple names at them:  "Better get to the park, some day you will see the names Hannahan, Brantley and Duncan in Cooperstown".

 

Same here. Already planning a few summer trips to see the Tribe at home. That's why I'm so freakin' upset about people not going.

Browns make the playoffs once in 10 years and people still fill up that stadium to watch that awful mess.

 

Hell the Indians went 80-82 last year. When was the last time the Browns were better than 8-8? Embarassing.

 

It's one of the best places to watch baseball. Cleveland deserves the barbs on this one.

 

 

 

Terrible comparison.  If the indians played 8 games per year at home, you can guarantee they would be sold out.  81 games. 81!!  Tens of thousands of people arent worried about missing tonights game, because they know they can go 40 more times this summer.  If you miss a Browns game, you basically miss 1/8 of the season.  Plus, completely different crowds.  half the browns audience goes to act like its st. patricks day.

 

So Cleveland is too small a market for 81 home games? Every other MLB city dosen't seem to have this problem. The attendance is horrific compared to the rest of the MLB.

 

Have you been watching the road games?  Seattle had its lowest attendance in the history of that stadium when they were there.  A huge city like Chicago had an empty stadium last week.  Oakland, as always, empty.  Its more an MLB thing than a Cleveland thing.  You can say our numbers are lower, but not by much, especially relative to the size of the cities Seattle, Chicago, Oakland are.  Look at the teams that are doing well right now:  Boston, Detroit, Texas, Philly, St. Louis.  All have been to the world series recently and/or have future hall of famers on their team.

^Seattle and Oakland are averaging 40-50% more fans than the Indians per game.  Oakland is a lame duck team with one foot out of the city.  Both teams are bad with no hope of contending this year.  Cleveland is a small market and it's totally understandable that it's in the lowest quartile of attendance, especially given the weather, but the Prog's emptiness is just in a league of its own so far this year.  10k per game less than Pittsburgh is just tough to explain, IMHO.

My Dad works with quite a few hardcore Indians fans that haven't been to a game in the last 5 years. These are the type of fans who used to go to 50-60 home games a year. He asked a few of them why they stopped going and all of them said because Dolan is cheap.  I think this has a lot to do with the attendance problems. Dolan needs to reconnect with the fans. The organization needs to generate some kind of excitement.  Perception is everything. Dolan needs to take a few lessons from Dan Gilbert.

Dolan needs to reconnect with the fans. The organization needs to generate some kind of excitement.  Perception is everything. Dolan needs to take a few lessons from Dan Gilbert.

 

^ This is right.

 

Dolan has been a blundering PR nightmare ever since he took ownership. Now he's somehow managed to become even less visible than Randy Lerner.

 

Also, I don't have the study to back this up of course,  but I think pulling the Tribe off of "free tv" has had a major effect in alienating the the fans.

In case anyone is interested, here are the Indians' historical attendance data: http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/cleiatte.shtml

 

Totally fascinating.  I knew attendance was much higher in the past couple decades than in earlier eras, but I had no idea how low it was for the Indians as late as the mid 1980s.  I went to games back then, but only really became a fan in 1988 when it was already rising.  Avg attendance in 1985 was barely above 8,000!

......and that was in an 80,000 seat stadium.  The stadium scenes from "Major League" really weren't all that exaggerated

......and that was in an 80,000 seat stadium.  The stadium scenes from "Major League" really weren't all that exaggerated

 

And the idea of the team moving during that era wasn't that far-fetched, either.

The Dolans arent moving the team.  Period.  The indians currently have a contract to play in Progressive Field into at least the 2020's.  Do you think Dolans will buy out of that contract?  Ha, they wont even sign a right handed bat?  Not to mention, they are Cleveland guys.

My Dad works with quite a few hardcore Indians fans that haven't been to a game in the last 5 years. These are the type of fans who used to go to 50-60 home games a year. He asked a few of them why they stopped going and all of them said because Dolan is cheap.  I think this has a lot to do with the attendance problems. Dolan needs to reconnect with the fans. The organization needs to generate some kind of excitement.  Perception is everything. Dolan needs to take a few lessons from Dan Gilbert.

 

Winning dosen't generate excitement? I know the Tribe hasn't won a WS in the last decade but the team hasn't exactly been the Royals or the Pirates since Dolan took over. Some Clevelanders must have gotten spoiled with the Jacobs/Hart run. A season where the Indians contended until Labor Day followed by an 17-12 first place start the next season would have been considered incredible in the 1970's - early 1990's.  Also these players deserve better support considering how everyone shows up to watch the Phil Dawson Show on the other side of downtown.

The Dolans arent moving the team.  Period.  The indians currently have a contract to play in Progressive Field into at least the 2020's.  Do you think Dolans will buy out of that contract?  Ha, they wont even sign a right handed bat?  Not to mention, they are Cleveland guys.

 

100% correct. Dolans aren't going to bail even if 3/4 of NE Ohio has seemed to bail on them.

......and that was in an 80,000 seat stadium.  The stadium scenes from "Major League" really weren't all that exaggerated

 

And the idea of the team moving during that era wasn't that far-fetched, either.

 

They were very close to becoming the Tampa Bay Indians.

[considering how everyone shows up to watch the Phil Dawson Show on the other side of downtown.

 

That was awesome. Thanks for the laugh!

So getting back to baseball games......

 

:whip: I STILL HATE CHRIS PEREZ.  :whip:

The Dolans arent moving the team.  Period.  The indians currently have a contract to play in Progressive Field into at least the 2020's.  Do you think Dolans will buy out of that contract?  Ha, they wont even sign a right handed bat?  Not to mention, they are Cleveland guys.

 

Of course not now.  I was simply saying that in the 1970s-80s Cleveland dodged a bullet in not losing the Indians to another city.

Glad to see the Tribe bounced that arrogant pig-f*cker Beckett early. He deserved to get knocked around, and was justifiably booed by the locals when he left the mound with his tail up his *ss.

^true it was a big series and we just took 2 of 3 from the best team in baseball IMO. However, i have trouble getting too excited to comment (unless asked).  Its such a long season and we have two good teams right behind us.  I will definitely enjoy this, but we have 8 games  in the next 7 days against the sox (red and white).  This stretch will surely tell where we are.  I will gladly take 4 of 8.  5 of 8 is gravy and 3 of 8 would be disappointing.

 

please win tomorrow.  gotta make a statement.  after starting 2-0 on this long week. we could possibly end up 1-5

Well there's 2 in one day!

I guess I am sort of confused why Minnesota is putting 31K in that stadium for a 10-25 team.  Perhaps the newer stadium?  I dont want to hear that they are better fans, thats not accurate

Good question.

 

Glad that losing streak is over.

In Minnesota, I think the new stadium explains a lot of it.  And in KC there was a lot of excitement about their team heading into the season.  It's Pittsburgh that's the mystery to me.

 

Man oh man is the AL Central bad. Fingers crossed Detroit continues to sputter.  Or the things finally click for the Tribe in a big way.

Windians!  Lowe pitched a complete game shutout with 22 ground ball outs.

I think Masterson needs to swallow his pride and hang around Lowe for a little while. Otherwise Masterson may get his pride shoved down his throat with a trip to the minors if/when they bring Fausto back up.

That was a nice tidy 2-game series.  The Twins seem to be the perfect medicine for just about every team this year.

 

I haven't heard an update on Tomlin, but will be interesting to see what the front office does when he comes back if McCalister is still pitching well. Kind of hate to see him go back down given Masterson and Ubaldo's control issues.

Yow that was an exciting win today.  I know it's way to early to care about the standings, but hard not to notice the Tigers falling 4 games back today :)

 

So the big question...can the Tribe break through the daunting 13k attendance number tomorrow night for interleague play?

Anyone else have a 1995 flashback/deja vu today?

And Detroit lost today -- we're up 4 games now.

Anyone else have a 1995 flashback/deja vu today?

 

THis is a very stubborn team.  I love it.  Kind of remind me of the 2005 White Sox too...relentless

Yow that was an exciting win today.  I know it's way to early to care about the standings, but hard not to notice the Tigers falling 4 games back today :)

 

So the big question...can the Tribe break through the daunting 13k attendance number tomorrow night for interleague play?

 

I would anticipate good crowds all weekend.  Fireworks, and alot of out of towners for graduations, marathon, etc.

Anyone else have a 1995 flashback/deja vu today?

 

Nope  ask this in September.

I know we boycott the Dolans, but [email protected]'re not even close to the rest of baseball with average attendance:

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance

I hate to say it, but between the weather and the attendance, I can understand why free agents take less money to play elsewhere.

^Free agents don't care about attendance...It's all about the money.

^If it was all about the money Carlos Pena would be playing first for the Indians right now.  I don't mean to overstate it though, that's probably an extreme case. I'm just stupidly venting and will stop now.

Other than Robbie, I don't recall many quality free agents coming here during the 455, so I don't buy the attendance argument. And the weather is comprable to half of the other MLB teams' cities.

 

Quality free agents dont come here because the owner can't or won't match other teams' offers in conjunction with some stigma against the organization and city (think Clemens in the late 80s when we recruited him). Perceived Cleveland sports curses can't help when players want to win championships either.

 

 

 

I hate to say it, but between the weather and the attendance, I can understand why free agents take less money to play elsewhere.

 

Like Detroit, Boston and Chicago all have wonderful weather. And we forget how bad the attendance was at the new Comiskey when it opened because so many people hated (and still hate) that ballpark because they feel like they're going to fall out of the upper deck. But if you draft well, make good trades and stay healthy, you can create a solid foundation of players that people will watch regardless how good or bad the stadium/weather is. For some reason, Clevelanders are staying away. I think they need to get some therapy.

 

Free agents will come to a place if they are paid what they think they are worth and if they think they can win there. And, except for two years (2005/2007), I don't think the Tribe has been able to satisfy either of those two conditions for a decade.

The Dolans adversarial relationship to Indians' fans/the city itself cannot help either. Compare their attitude to Gilbert, and you'll see why Cavs fans support such a weak team.

Other than Robbie, I don't recall many quality free agents coming here during the 455

 

Juan Gonzalez, Eddie Murray, Dennis Martinez were all considered quality signings even though they had varying results.

My theory is that they just need to win for two years in a row (make the playoffs) and the fans will return. Probably not in the force of the 455 sellouts but in numbers well over 20K during the early months and well over 30k-35k during the nicer months. Think of how many tease teams we have had over the last decade. Good one year, then mediocre the next year or two (I am looking at you Mr. Wedge) If they can build on last year's hot start cut short by injuries and make the playoffs this year, I think the Cleveland fans will buy back into the team. It will take some September ball that means something to get the fan base kickstarted again.

 

The trading of two Cy Young winners needs to be exorcised by the Dolans some how too. I have a feeling it will take a deep playoff run to do that, or years, lots and lots of years. Lots of years. Or Matt LaPorta needs to magically become Babe Ruth reincarnated...

Yeah, I mostly agree with KJP.  This was meant to be a retraction of my stupid trolling comment:

 

I'm just stupidly venting and will stop now.

 

I also agree with Hts121 though: the 1990s teams made a lot of smart, quality free agent signings (not every quality player is a HOFer).  I'd add reliever Mike Jackson and also Kenny Lofton's second stint to his list.  I think the Dolans are willing to do the same, but Carlos Pena turned down their offer for less money, and the bidding for Willingham got out of hand and MN overpaid for him.  The market was pretty thin beyond that.

 

EDIT: ^Word is Laporta will be back with the team in the next few days, so he'll have his next chance.

Great game today. They didn't even try to hit Chris Perez's 95mph fastballs. They just stood there and watched.

Chris Perez Rips Cleveland Fans, Says Free Agents Don’t Want To Sign Because Of Lack Of Support

May 19, 2012 By Brendan

Read More: http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2012/05/chris-perez-rips-indians-fans/

 

As is his wont, Chris Perez shot off in the locker room after the Indians 2-0 win over the Marlins on Saturday. Only this time he wasn’t getting into tussles on Twitter or with the opponents. Perez ripped the Cleveland fans, saying they don’t show up and the lack of support has hurt the organization’s pursuit of free agents. He specifically cited the club’s attempt to sign Carlos Beltran this offseason, saying the low attendance and support were a factor in Beltran choosing the Cardinals over the Tribe

Though I don't blame Cleveland fans for not wanting to support those Dolan goofs, it is refreshed hearing a ballplayer not censor himself and be overly diplomatic. I don't agree with him, but I do respect his speaking his mind despite the potential fallout

It's always something as a Cleveland fan. We supported LBJ (to a fault) for years and he embarrased us on national tv. Now, we have a thin-skinned relief pitcher complaining about low attendance and being booed. I understand some of his frustration. Still...we can't win.

^ totally agree. pure rage ha.

 

hey chris, two words, june swoon lol!

 

so now hes got something to prove. whatever motivates.

 

at least his remarks wont hurt anything. the tribe hasnt been in the news.

 

 

 

Perez is gonna get his ass booed out of town just like Tim "Crybaby" Couch.

Perez is gonna get his ass booed out of town just like Tim "Crybaby" Couch.

 

If the fans are dumbasses. We dont want to lose a guy who is one of the best closers in the league and is in the top 3 for saves.

Perez announced on twitter a little bit ago that he will "put my money where my mouth is" and give away 3 pairs of tickets to home games for the rest of the season.  Additionally, Perez and Shapiro are going to be "available" to the media today, so fallout recovery mode is in full swing.

It's super lame when players complain about getting booed.  I don't really have a problem with him calling out the terrible attendance though. If Perez keeps pitching well and the team wins, people are going to forget about all this stupid stuff pretty fast.  He seems to be rediscovering some of his 2009 form so far this spring after a couple years of decline in velocity and control.  Would be awesome if it lasts.  Now let's go win the series today!

OK.  I gotta say something about Perez's comments.  The dude is 100% right and we're too stubborn or ignorant to acknowledge that fact.  Since opening day he's converted 13 straight save opportunities right?  He has one of the highest save conversion rates in the league over the last two years.  Sure he's been shaky in non-save situations, but that problem is not unique to Perez.  That problem is nearly universal with closers.  So the guy comes into the game on Thursday in the 10th inning of a tie game.  He walks a guy and gives up a hit and the boos start raining down.  Are you kidding me?  He didn't even give up a run!  In no way did he deserve to be booed on Thursday.  We are so freakin' depressed and pessimistic in this town that we JUST KNOW that the worst is going to happen in nearly every aspect of our miserable lives, especially sports.

 

This ridiculous booing event was only made worse by the fact that there were around 10,000 people at the game on Thursday so it makes it much easier for that A-hole fan's voice to be heard.  Perez was right to suggest that our attendance is pathetic and embarrassing for a first place team.  Perez was right to state that he seems to be on an amazingly short leash in the fans eyes even though the team is playing pretty well and he's been one of the best closers in the league this year.  Perez was right to say that Cleveland isn't a fun place to play baseball because of the first two points.

 

Most fans seem to be saying "Well, yeah, Perez is right, but he shouldn't have said it."  What?  Are you kidding me?  You can make all the excuses you want (didn't sign Sabathia or Lee, couldn't get Beltran, blah blah blah), but Indians fans have been terrible over the last 5 seasons or so.  Even in 2007 when we were on the brink of going back to the World Series our attendance figures weren't very strong.  Perez was right and we're too stupid to care. 

 

This is even more frustrating when you think about how much more success the Indians have had over the last 20 years than the Browns or Cavs.  So go to a game!  You have a MUCH better chance of seeing the Indians beat the Yankees (or anyone for that matter) than you do of seeing the Browns beat anyone.