Getting back on topic, I think the one thing that irritates those who don't have an issue is that it is just a symbol and that symbols do not make up who they are. They see a symbol for what it is, just a logo, nothing more nothing less.

 

It seems as if the left places extra value on symbols and feels they represent more than they actually do.

 

If that were true, then why did folks on the right get so upset by Black athletes kneeling during the national anthem.

 

Answer: they felt that act of kneeling represented more than it actually did.

 

To be more specific they feel that the flag, a symbol, has extra value than just being a symbol.

^ Touche - It does cut both ways on various issues.

 

PS - I was mainly trying to think of something to debate to get people back on topic (since I was responsible for going off topic initially

to get back on topic, how much of a retail presence does Wahoo need to have in order for the Indians to preserve the trademark? 

to get back on topic, how much of a retail presence does Wahoo need to have in order for the Indians to preserve the trademark? 

 

I believe they just have to maintain involvement "in interstate commerce" which to me is a very very low bar.

 

Everyone is saying that they are going to rake in a lot of money on Wahoo merch. Seems likely. Now is the time for Dolan et al to channel those revenues toward Native American charities. If the name "Indians" is truly to honor them, well, it's time to do something real about it.

to get back on topic, how much of a retail presence does Wahoo need to have in order for the Indians to preserve the trademark? 

 

I believe it would have to be readily available without having to jump through too many hoops. It may not need to be sold online but should probably be available in the team shop and other team affiliated shops. They don't need to disseminate them at Giant Eagle but keep it to the stadiums and hotels.

 

What I think you are going to see is in the first 3-4 years, you will see a few shirts and hats with the Chief on them. THen after that fad dies down in 3-4 years, and people forget about the Chief, you will see the hats and logo displayed in the team shop on retro Jerseys that are for sale. This way, they can protect the mark, the collectors can celebrate the past with their retro jerseys, but the bulk of sales will be focused on new merchandise and current stuff. The Wahoo mark will only be used on throwback merchandise and will cater to a very limited audience.

to get back on topic, how much of a retail presence does Wahoo need to have in order for the Indians to preserve the trademark? 

 

I believe it would have to be readily available without having to jump through too many hoops. It may not need to be sold online but should probably be available in the team shop and other team affiliated shops. They don't need to disseminate them at Giant Eagle but keep it to the stadiums and hotels.

 

It's important they're sold over state lines too. Because all of the team shops are in-state they are going to have to have some online presence. Selling only in-state jeopardizes their rights to the logo.

^ That is true, but you can always call the team shop and they will ship to you. You are probably right, there will be an online presence, but in context, I think there will be a lot less uproar from people about the Wahoo logo appearing on a vintage 1990's -2015 uniform instead of being on regular everyday apparel.

 

I do not envision them making go Tribe shirts with Wahoo on them anymore, only the vintage stuff

to get back on topic, how much of a retail presence does Wahoo need to have in order for the Indians to preserve the trademark? 

 

I believe it would have to be readily available without having to jump through too many hoops. It may not need to be sold online but should probably be available in the team shop and other team affiliated shops. They don't need to disseminate them at Giant Eagle but keep it to the stadiums and hotels.

 

It's important they're sold over state lines too. Because all of the team shops are in-state they are going to have to have some online presence. Selling only in-state jeopardizes their rights to the logo.

 

It's actually not important to be sold over state lines. If the material for the shirts traveled across any state prior  to being manufactured, boom, ya got em.

 

With seldom exceptions, intrastate commerce no longer exists. Especially when items are available for purchase online.

to get back on topic, how much of a retail presence does Wahoo need to have in order for the Indians to preserve the trademark? 

 

I believe it would have to be readily available without having to jump through too many hoops. It may not need to be sold online but should probably be available in the team shop and other team affiliated shops. They don't need to disseminate them at Giant Eagle but keep it to the stadiums and hotels.

 

It's important they're sold over state lines too. Because all of the team shops are in-state they are going to have to have some online presence. Selling only in-state jeopardizes their rights to the logo.

 

It's actually not important to be sold over state lines. If the material for the shirts traveled across any state prior  to being manufactured, boom, ya got em. 

 

Bear with me, I'm approaching senility, but I think that shipment fact allows the Feds to regulate, but does not necessarily extend rights to an IP protection. I don't know.

 

Anyhow, polling at 69% you say?

A) I love the block C, to be honest

 

B) But, man am I said to see the Chief go. That smiling face will forever have a spot in my heart.

 

C) Inevitably, I think the team name will be soon to follow. I bet the Indians are no longer the Indians by 2040.

 

A) yep

 

B) yep

 

C) yep

 

so what will it be?

 

a throwback?

 

blues, lakes shores, spiders, bronchos, grays, buckeyes or naps?

 

The Cleveland Huletts. Brute mechanical strength yet possessing a certain finesse and grace.

 

And since the league forced us to change our mascot (and name) maybe they can help pay for us to assemble our new mascot from the pieces laying out on Whiskey Island.

I'm cool with anything that at least plausibly sounds like it could have been chosen at least 50 years ago. My alma mater changed from Redskins to "RedHawks" and I just can't stand that capital "H" in the middle of the word for a school that was founded in 1809. If your team has over a century of tradition, pick something old-sounding, not something that sounds like some kind of expansion team in Arizona.

The Cleveland Huletts. Brute mechanical strength yet possessing a certain finesse and grace.

 

And since the league forced us to change our mascot (and name) maybe they can help pay for us to assemble our new mascot from the pieces laying out on Whiskey Island.

 

 

yes, yes, a thousand times yes -- fantasic!

 

Just change it to the tribe. It's already the unofficial name for the team; it's in the damn jingle.

Let's go tribe!

of course the onion has a take lol

 

https://sports.theonion.com/cleveland-indians-owner-admits-chief-wahoo-no-longer-co-1822530608#_ga=2.5351217.308159307.1517356763-125350785.1469680524

Holy crap, already????

 

Pitchers and catchers' first workout: Feb. 15

First full-squad workout: Feb. 19

Holy crap, already????

 

Pitchers and catchers' first workout: Feb. 15

First full-squad workout: Feb. 19

 

Couldn't come soon enough!

 

Cavs....such a stupid trainwreck......

^ and just like cavs are back in play bay bee lol!

 

but anyway trevor bauer doubled his salary in arbitration

 

from $3M to $6M

 

i think ownership offered $5M

 

hes only the third indian to do so

 

good for him, but whatever right? lol

 

anyway, its great thatpitchers & catchers are back now.

 

screw that gopher, its always a hopeful sign of spring being on the way.

 

http://es.pn/2CnAM5Q

 

 

rajai davis is back with the tribe on a minor league contract.

 

he is 38 and his ba dipped last year, but his steals are still solid as is his d.

 

also, vegas has tribe at 15/2 and third to win it all behind houston and the dodgers.

 

thats all for now, but can you believe it the first spring game with the reds is in a few days!

 

This morning when it was 65 degrees in Cleveland, it was only 39 degrees in Goodyear, AZ. I know that won't last, but I enjoyed it while it did.

Baseball is tomorrow. Hold me....

 

sad albert belle news

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/albert-belle-ex-cleveland-indians-outfielder-busted-arizona-article-1.3895823

 

"With a 79 percent chance of winning the Central, Cleveland is our model’s strongest division favorite for 2018."

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/your-guide-to-the-2018-american-league/?ex_cid=538twitter

encarnacion’s inside the park hr was the comedy highlight of the season so far. they were toweling him off after he motored around lol.

https://www.vox.com/today-explained/2018/3/29/17176906/cleveland-indians-opening-day-ohio-mlb-today-explained-podcast

 

Meet the man who's leading the charge for Chief Wahoo to be removed/replaced.

The racism thread is locked right now, so I'll post this here instead.

 

Indians Fans Taunt, Mock, And Scream Obscenities At Native American Protesters At Home Opener

https://deadspin.com/indians-fans-taunt-mock-and-scream-obscenities-at-nat-1825073128

 

 

That was disgusting and makes me really sad and embarrassed to be from and live in this region. A bunch of pigs.  People, particularly sports fan want cleveland to be respected and stop being picked on.  Maybe stop acting like this.  Pretty befuddling that these were grown ass adults. Can’t imagine they are gainfully doing great things with their lives

That was disgusting and makes me really sad and embarrassed to be from and live in this region. A bunch of pigs.  People, particularly sports fan want cleveland to be respected and stop being picked on.  Maybe stop acting like this.  Pretty befuddling that these were grown ass adults. Can’t imagine they are gainfully doing great things with their lives

 

That's the reaction they wanted.  They sought it out.  When you show up in the opposing camp with bullhorns and slogans, you're going to get pushback.

except the opposing camp is in wrong, thats why they are stooping lower and cursing at them.

 

the whole thing is moot anyway because wahoo is going away.

I don't get the big deal about them changing the logo.  Teams and businesses change their logos all the time.  It's just a cartoon people.  Life will go on without Wahoo.

^peaceful protests are not "seeking out" that type of anger.  Peaceful protests seek out conversation, opening up impressionable and dense minds to a different perspective. Getting people to try to understand how others outside their bubbles feel about something.  Some crowds that just doesn't resonate with.

^peaceful protests are not "seeking out" that type of anger.  Peaceful protests seek out conversation, opening up impressionable and dense minds to a different perspective. Getting people to try to understand how others outside their bubbles feel about something.  Some crowds that just doesn't resonate with.

 

This is worth a Hmmmm.

I don't get the big deal about them changing the logo.  Teams and businesses change their logos all the time.  It's just a cartoon people.  Life will go on without Wahoo.

 

"BUT MY LAUNDRY WILL BE OUT OF DATE!" - People who want to keep a racist logo.

^peaceful protests are not "seeking out" that type of anger.  Peaceful protests seek out conversation, opening up impressionable and dense minds to a different perspective. Getting people to try to understand how others outside their bubbles feel about something.  Some crowds that just doesn't resonate with.

 

This is worth a Hmmmm.

 

explain

^peaceful protests are not "seeking out" that type of anger.  Peaceful protests seek out conversation, opening up impressionable and dense minds to a different perspective. Getting people to try to understand how others outside their bubbles feel about something.  Some crowds that just doesn't resonate with.

 

This is worth a Hmmmm.

 

explain

 

You effectively said Indians fans who want to keep Wahoo don't have impressionable or dense minds.

 

I believe I misread your intent the first time through.  But if I'm reading it right now, you are saying that the fans who want to keep Wahoo aren't interested in a different perspective, how this might be viewed by Native Americans, etc.  Maybe I'm wrong.

^You are correct.  i dont believe the pro-wahoo folks are interested in a different perspective.  I was a "C" student in english growing up, articulating thoughts clearly isnt my strongsuit.

 

That was disgusting and makes me really sad and embarrassed to be from and live in this region. A bunch of pigs.  People, particularly sports fan want cleveland to be respected and stop being picked on.  Maybe stop acting like this.  Pretty befuddling that these were grown ass adults. Cant imagine they are gainfully doing great things with their lives

 

Give it time, the wounds are fresh, it will die down.

^You are correct.  i dont believe the pro-wahoo folks are interested in a different perspective.  I was a "C" student in english growing up, articulating thoughts clearly isnt my strongsuit.

 

 

It was my fault - I rushed through reading it upon first glance.

I don't get the big deal about them changing the logo.  Teams and businesses change their logos all the time.  It's just a cartoon people.  Life will go on without Wahoo.

 

The sad part (for the Native Americans) is Wahoo will still be in the stands, on shirts and other merchandise, around the ballpark, etc.  Literally the only place he won't be is on the field.  It's a baby step for them.

^ true enough -- i still have a brownie sweatshirt for the browns. old logos throw back and hang around.

 

 

i've already come around to the block c hat. it looks fine. hopefully that wont offend anybody in 50yrs.

 

if indians picks up in being offensive i guess we could always switch to the natives or first nationers. or spiders. or naps. hullets. clevelanders??

 

on the horizon, i find the completely soulless corporate team crap like for example the mighty ducks and raptors offensive too. when is somebody gonna call that out? oh wait, ducks and dinosaurs. i guess never. oh well.

 

let's just leave this pc mess at the washington redskins feet for now.

 

except the opposing camp is in wrong, thats why they are stooping lower and cursing at them.

 

the whole thing is moot anyway because wahoo is going away.

 

No he's not.  The fans won't allow it to.  It's become a point of principle to a significant part of the fan base, and no one does stubborn like a Cleveland fan.

 

They're also not wrong.  Just because a small group decides something is "offensive" doesn't make it so.

^peaceful protests are not "seeking out" that type of anger.  Peaceful protests seek out conversation, opening up impressionable and dense minds to a different perspective. Getting people to try to understand how others outside their bubbles feel about something.  Some crowds that just doesn't resonate with.

 

That wasn't "peaceful".  It wasn't violent either.  I suppose the right term is "confrontational".  They got back pretty much what they put out, except rawer.

 

Come on. I’ve seen those folks for 20 years. They stand their with signs and do harmless chants that fit their agenda.  They don’t yell “F you” over and over again and grab their crotches

Come on. I’ve seen those folks for 20 years. They stand their with signs and do harmless chants that fit their agenda.  They don’t yell “F you” over and over again and grab their crotches

 

If you ever get a chance to talk to Bob Roche, the leader of the anti-Wahoo movement, he is a genuinely sweet and well-spoken man. 

Come on. I’ve seen those folks for 20 years. They stand their with signs and do harmless chants that fit their agenda.  They don’t yell “F you” over and over again and grab their crotches

 

If it's a "demand" presented in the adversary's camp, it's confrontational.

 

They also haven't been drinking.

College kids respond to actual nazis= snowflakes shouldn't respond. 

 

Peaceful group asking to change name and get rid of cartoon logo =  they deserve whatever hate they get.

Come on. I’ve seen those folks for 20 years. They stand their with signs and do harmless chants that fit their agenda.  They don’t yell “F you” over and over again and grab their crotches

 

If you ever get a chance to talk to Bob Roche, the leader of the anti-Wahoo movement, he is a genuinely sweet and well-spoken man. 

 

While neither of us would convince the other, I would ask what has changed since 1989, when "Major League" came out.  IIRC it garnered zero protests.

 

My answer to that question is we've become more thin skinned as a people, to the point of seeking "offense" when none exists.  This has become a virtue to some.  This is toxic in a pluralistic society and we are seeing those poisonous results.  This is as good a place to push back as any.

Come on. I’ve seen those folks for 20 years. They stand their with signs and do harmless chants that fit their agenda.  They don’t yell “F you” over and over again and grab their crotches

 

If you ever get a chance to talk to Bob Roche, the leader of the anti-Wahoo movement, he is a genuinely sweet and well-spoken man. 

 

While neither of us would convince the other, I would ask what has changed since 1989, when "Major League" came out.  IIRC it garnered zero protests.

 

My answer to that question is we've become more thin skinned as a people, to the point of seeking "offense" when none exists.  This has become a virtue to some.  This is toxic in a pluralistic society and we are seeing those poisonous results.  This is as good a place to push back as any.

 

I agree, pretending to be offended by people protesting a sports mascot is very thin skinned, toxic, and stupid.

Saying that no one protested before but they are now is a weak argument.  One could say that about any group that decided to protest something.  Why did black people wait until the 60s to protest their civil rights.  What changed?  I guess they just more think skinned about having to drink from different water fountains.

They're also not wrong.  Just because a small group decides something is "offensive" doesn't make it so.

 

That is quite literally how something is deemed offensive.