Wall Street Journal ("Troubles Push GE to Consider a Breakup") reporting that GE is considering splitting its business segments into separate companies. If this were to happen and GE Aviation's headquarters stayed in Evendale, Cincinnati would gain another Fortune 100 company.

Wall Street Journal ("Troubles Push GE to Consider a Breakup") reporting that GE is considering splitting its business segments into separate companies. If this were to happen and GE Aviation's headquarters stayed in Evendale, Cincinnati would gain another Fortune 100 company.

As of late in Cincinnati, whenever it rains, it pours...  Whether or not this may be said of other big US cities, I can't say, but locally the answer is a decided and unsettling yes.

 

(a) No sooner is Cincinnati rewarded a terrific business coup (GE to locate one of five global operation centers at the Banks!) than the city suffers a terrible business loss (Toyota North American headquarters to leave NKY for Texas);

 

(b) No sooner does Cincinnati hear that it's about to gain an impressive F500 company (Veritiv to become the city's 4th biggest public company!) than the city finds out just the opposite (Veritiv decides to move headquarters from Loveland to Atlanta);

 

© No sooner is Cincinnati relieved to know that Procter & Gamble has divested itself of one infamous activist investor (Bill Ackman has sold off his stock and moved on!) than the city is served notice that another, far worse "activist investor" will enter the company at the highest level (P&G allows Nelson Peltz to become a board member);

 

(d) No sooner does Cincinnati become delighted to hear that it may inherit a huge F500, and possibly F100 company (GE Aviation to be headquartered in Cincinnati?) than the city is dismayed to be told that a GE-breakup may adversely affect many people's fortunes at the Banks (GE Global Headquarters could be downsized or lost).

 

There's a great deal that could be added here, but why bother?  Just gather up the names of F500 companies that Cincinnati has either acquired, regained or hoped to gain - then throw them all in a hat.  (These are some of the names not mentioned and in no certain order:  Cintas/Kroger/Vantiv/Macy's/Ashland)  Now reach down into the hat, draw out just one of those names and predict what will happen next.     

 

 

^I'm confused a bit on your post. 

 

Has Vantiv announced they are moving to Atlanta?  I haven't seen anything.

 

And nothing has been announced on the Banks yet, and do we know how many of those jobs are directly related to GE Aviation vs. other units?  It sounds like Aviation is staying as a GE company

^I'm confused a bit on your post. 

 

Has Vantiv announced they are moving to Atlanta?  I haven't seen anything.

 

And nothing has been announced on the Banks yet, and do we know how many of those jobs are directly related to GE Aviation vs. other units?  It sounds like Aviation is staying as a GE company

 

Veritiv is different than Vantiv. Veritiv (a distribution company) did move to Atlanta in past year or two (but kept some operations in Loveland). But Vantiv (payment processor that was spun out of 5/3) just merged to become WorldPay and has its North American HQ in Mason (I believe) and international HQ in London.

No sooner does Cincinnati ...

 

Well put.  It took Cleveland a long time (and a lot of short-sighted political leadership along the way) to figure out that growing local companies is more fruitful that trying to lure outsiders to relocate. That's why it's painful to see the young pups sell out at the first opportunity.  The next trick, when they don't sell out, becomes keeping them.  I *think* Cleveland is getting better at this lately.

^I'm confused a bit on your post. 

 

Has Vantiv announced they are moving to Atlanta?  I haven't seen anything.

 

And nothing has been announced on the Banks yet, and do we know how many of those jobs are directly related to GE Aviation vs. other units?  It sounds like Aviation is staying as a GE company

 

Veritiv is different than Vantiv. Veritiv (a distribution company) did move to Atlanta in past year or two (but kept some operations in Loveland). But Vantiv (payment processor that was spun out of 5/3) just merged to become WorldPay and has its North American HQ in Mason (I believe) and international HQ in London.

 

Ah, got you, I remember Veritiv well and was confused by the names as just in the last day Vantiv made that merger

^I'm confused a bit on your post. 

 

Has Vantiv announced they are moving to Atlanta?  I haven't seen anything.

 

And nothing has been announced on the Banks yet, and do we know how many of those jobs are directly related to GE Aviation vs. other units?  It sounds like Aviation is staying as a GE company

Adding to the above response, I'd like to add that I understand anyone's confusion over Veritiv and Vantiv; they are entirely two separate companies.  Some two years ago the local press boldly announced that Veritiv would become Cincy's next public company, but the problem was that the company's decision making was split two ways.  Needless to say, it was a disheartening loss locally, including for me personally.  Even though Veritiv still maintains operations here, I no longer care about or follow what they do.

 

Next, GE [/member] the Banks - who knows what will happen next, but our prestigious global operation has already been crippled as an indirect result of Nelson Peltz's wreaking crew - need I say more?  Before the day's over, try to get a look the Enquirer's front page...just what we all needed to see.

 

 

 

 

Next

 

 

I like to be a voice of reason a bit in regards to Cincinnati but I can't really be for a few things which are the streetcar, form-based codes, transport and bike lanes which our Mayor is clearly not a fan of any so pushes them off.  That said, there are a few things which are advantageous to Cincinnati business wise and I think fairly normal for a business cycle:

 

Companies will come and go, grow and merge and move into and out of.  I think overall though, you are seeing a good increase in jobs and the economy in the Cincy region, though it could be better of course.

 

I don't get too caught up on the above, if we lose Kroger and P&G, then I will be worried.

 

I'm not too worried about Peltz and P&G either.  If it wasn't him, it would be someone else or a new CEO that would push for changes.  I don't think Peltz is going to tell the board to scrap the HQ in Cincinnati and slash a ton of jobs.  They may sell off some units, some may stay in Cincy, some may go, but it won't be the end of the world.

 

Also, you are saying the global ops at the Banks is being crippled?  I haven't seen that yet.

 

I would just say, look at the big picture, know that good things are happening in the economy and hopefully we can start to get some better leadership in the city itself, and the rest will take care of itself.

 

I am much more concerned with matters like figuring out the streetcar, the bus levy, etc. right now than I am about business cycles.

Can someone explain to me how much power Peltz has now that he is on the board? Everyone makes it seem like he has more sway or voting power and will take P&G out of Cincinnati. He's just one guy on the board right? What am I missing?

 

 

As usual Cincinnati is terrible at leveraging its assets, continue to let Columbus walk all over you guys:

 

https://gizmodo.com/amazon-names-20-finalist-cities-for-hq2-thunderdome-1822189326

Cincinnati 2nd-fastest-growing Midwest city for high-tech jobs

By Tom Demeropolis  –  Senior Staff Reporter, Cincinnati Business Courier

 

A new report from a global commercial real estate firm says Cincinnati is one of the fastest-growing markets in the Midwest for high-tech jobs.

 

A report from CBRE Group Inc. says the Midwest has experienced “significant growth” in the high-tech industry. Five Midwest markets, including Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Chicago, Kansas City and Minneapolis/St. Paul, rank in the top 20 nationally for high-tech job growth in the past five years.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/01/18/cincinnati-2nd-fastest-growing-midwest-city-for.html

^^We were never getting it. Relax.

As usual Cincinnati is terrible at leveraging its assets, continue to let Columbus walk all over you guys:

 

https://gizmodo.com/amazon-names-20-finalist-cities-for-hq2-thunderdome-1822189326

 

Columbus isn't getting it either.  I don't see how this is "walking" over Cincinnati.  Both cities are doing fine, economically.

^Picking 3 cities in the DC Metro shows their intentions to me. Especially since DC is such an important IT city.

As usual Cincinnati is terrible at leveraging its assets, continue to let Columbus walk all over you guys:

 

All of those cities have higher taxes than Cincinnati.  Yet the Cincinnati Tea Party will continue to blame our supposed high taxes. 

 

As usual Cincinnati is terrible at leveraging its assets, continue to let Columbus walk all over you guys:

 

https://gizmodo.com/amazon-names-20-finalist-cities-for-hq2-thunderdome-1822189326

 

Why do you come on here and say stuff like "you guys", when obviously you used to live here and are on this forum all the time?  We don't go on Chicago forums and talk ish then point it towards you like it's your fault or something?

 

I get you get frustrated and stuff but if you are so concerned about all this stuff that you try to make it our fault, you should just move back and make a difference.  Everyone is doing everything they can on here...

 

***And I'll add neilworms, I do enjoy your commentary and perspective, but don't direct your frustration out on us, just say something like, "dang, that's dissapointing, I wish Cincinnati had more urban and forward thinking leadership and realized and pushed their assets", instead of making it like it's our fault. You don't have to make it personal towards the people who are pushing and cheering for everything you are looking for in Cincinnati, too

As usual Cincinnati is terrible at leveraging its assets, continue to let Columbus walk all over you guys:

 

All of those cities have higher taxes than Cincinnati.  Yet the Cincinnati Tea Party will continue to blame our supposed high taxes. 

 

 

Midwestern cities continue to brag about their "low cost of living," and yet, this is the latest example showing that what actually matters is the amenities that you provide your citizens. Amazon doesn't want to open a new HQ in a city that's cheap, they want to open it in a city that offers world class amenities so that they can attract the top employees.

 

Unfortunately, this mindset is not just limited to the Tea Party, it spans the whole political spectrum in cities like Cincinnati. When the Western Hills Viaduct funding was being debated in City Hall, Democrat P.G. Sittenfeld said, "I’m not ready to extract money from people who have made the ultimate of showing of commitment to the city of Cincinnati, the property owners." So, we're not even willing to raise taxes slightly to pay for the repair of our existing infrastructure ... let alone making the investments that we need to make to be competitive with the other cities in Amazon's short list.

Amazon doesn't care at all about the cost of living, because as soon as they announce their new HQ, home prices will skyrocket in a small-to-medium sized city. The only exception to this rule is cities like San Francisco where there is such a huge housing shortage that they wouldn't want to try to bring 40,000 employees to the city.

 

Bigger cities will be affected, but not nearly to the same degree.

^Travis, I agree with everything you say.  Especially on the political one, is it the personal opinion of P.G. Sittenfeld outside of politics that he doesn't want to do that, or is it the politics?  Is PG aware of what is going on in other cities and what needs to happen here and just playing politics?  I think that has a lot to do with it.

 

How do you get elected to this city without doing everything the business interests want you to do?  That is what is going to make a difference in Cincinnati, or that of CEO's of major corporations making their opinion known on what's important.

 

 

Columbus is NOT a low tax city. High property taxes, high sales taxes, high earnings taxes. We also have state income taxes.

Columbus is NOT a low tax city. High property taxes, high sales taxes, high earnings taxes. We also have state income taxes.

 

Right, and Columbus is actually working hard to transform it into a place where educated college graduates want to live by building all different types of housing in the urban core and other walkable neighborhoods, improving transit and bike infrastructure, etc. It's no surprise that they're the only Ohio city on the list.

I'd say the difference there is city administration. Both have DINO mayors, but Ginther is not as hardcore DINO as Cranley. It's the rest of Columbus' administration that is actually somewhat progressive while still doing little about rail transit.

^Travis, I agree with everything you say.  Especially on the political one, is it the personal opinion of P.G. Sittenfeld outside of politics that he doesn't want to do that, or is it the politics?  Is PG aware of what is going on in other cities and what needs to happen here and just playing politics?  I think that has a lot to do with it.

 

How do you get elected to this city without doing everything the business interests want you to do?  That is what is going to make a difference in Cincinnati, or that of CEO's of major corporations making their opinion known on what's important.

 

With PG specifically, I think he's by far the best "politician" on City Council and he basically doesn't want his name attached to anything that he thinks will ever be used against him on a future run for office. He has recently become more openly socially liberal (especially since his Senate run), but doesn't take public positions on anything he doesn't have to. He's always the top vote-getter on Council because he comes across as a "good guy" to both liberals and conservatives, so this strategy appears to be working. But I do think he's aware of what's happening in other cities and what Cincinnati should be doing to be more competitive. PG has really gotten involved in the movement to improve Metro, but unfortunately, we're only pushing for improved bus service at this time, not any BRT routes, streetcar or light rail expansions, commuter rail, etc. We'll see what happens when the issue of bike lanes comes up before City Council in the next 4 years...

 

Amazon locating in Cincinnati would have completely shook up the political culture, and I would not be surprised if the blue bloods tried their hardest to keep it from happening. Companies like Western Southern are super socially and fiscally conservative. They last thing they want is a company like Amazon coming in and saying "in order to attract the young, highly skilled workers we want, we need to invest in more urban development, better transit and bike infrastructure."

 

I think Cincinnati could've put together a much stronger bid for Amazon, but as soon as they said, "we're doing a joint bid with Dayton and Northern Kentucky," I knew they weren't taking it seriously.

Columbus is NOT a low tax city. High property taxes, high sales taxes, high earnings taxes. We also have state income taxes.

 

Every type of tax is higher in Columbus, yet it is growing faster. 

People really don't want to go back home to Stryker

Columbus actually had a plan that would use tax revenues directly generated by Amazon to build transit.

 

I almost forgot Pittsburgh a city that is like a bizarro clone of Cincinnati though generally more progressive and a heck of a lot better at getting their name out there.

 

Also there had to be some serious consideration here otherwise the whole Dennison Debacle wouldn't have happened (the Josephs were salivating at selling their land to HQ2 most likely).

 

 

And sorry for being harsh, I know that people who are at least suck-ups to the elites in town read this forum and I wanted to kick them in the rear, I mean no insult to people who are trying to make Cincy a better place.

 

IMO an outsiders perspective always does you guys good, I'm staying put ;).

HQ2 wasn't even a thought when the Josephs started the Dennison demo application.

Columbus actually had a plan that would use tax revenues directly generated by Amazon to build transit.

 

 

That's good news but Amazon could still say, "Well, you don't have it already."

HQ2 wasn't even a thought when the Josephs started the Dennison demo application.

 

What the heck else could it be?  I mean it was astronomically ridiculous to assume a fortune 500 company would rain from the sky.  There had to be at least rumors among the elites this was going to happen.  Not all news is known to the general population.

Columbus actually had a plan that would use tax revenues directly generated by Amazon to build transit.

 

 

That's good news but Amazon could still say, "Well, you don't have it already."

 

It is partially why I'm favoring Pittsburgh or Chicago over Columbus.  IMO its going to either be 1) Pitts, 2) Chicago 3) Atlanta

HQ2 wasn't even a thought when the Josephs started the Dennison demo application.

 

What the heck else could it be?  I mean it was astronomically ridiculous to assume a fortune 500 company would rain from the sky.  There had to be at least rumors among the elites this was going to happen.  Not all news is known to the general population.

 

They were in no discussions to bring a Fortune 500 company to the site. That was a ruse to justify the demolition. They proposed a generic office tower with no leads.

HQ2 wasn't even a thought when the Josephs started the Dennison demo application.

 

What the heck else could it be?  I mean it was astronomically ridiculous to assume a fortune 500 company would rain from the sky.  There had to be at least rumors among the elites this was going to happen.  Not all news is known to the general population.

 

The Josephs started demolishing buildings on that block in the 1980s and have been claiming that it's for a "future Fortune 500 company" the whole time. They're delusional.

HQ2 wasn't even a thought when the Josephs started the Dennison demo application.

 

What the heck else could it be?  I mean it was astronomically ridiculous to assume a fortune 500 company would rain from the sky.  There had to be at least rumors among the elites this was going to happen.  Not all news is known to the general population.

 

lol the Josephs are not 'elites' ala the Koch brothers, or even the Lindners to go with a local family. They own car dealerships and some land downtown. They have money, yes, but not THAT much, and the money they do have is spread between a pretty large family. Like Ryan said, they 'proposed' a spec office building during the tumult surrounding the demolition of the Dennison, but I doubt they even expect that to come to fruition any time soon. They probably saw it as an opportunity to make a few more bucks off surface parking. Who knows their ultimate motivation, but I can almost guarantee the Josephs didn't have any sort of insider knowledge about Amazon or any other business development.

Even though they are buddies with Cranley?  I mean freaken neighbors.  Its all about who you know.  They are high enough up to have an ear into that world.

Even though they are buddies with Cranley?  I mean freaken neighbors.  Its all about who you know.  They are high enough up to have an ear into that world.

 

Cranley didn't know about HQ 2 when the demo permits were applied for. This demo had absolutely nothing to with Amazon or any other big company moving into town.

Columbus is NOT a low tax city. High property taxes, high sales taxes, high earnings taxes. We also have state income taxes.

 

Every type of tax is higher in Columbus, yet it is growing faster.

 

And let's be honest, even with some higher taxes cost of living there is still comparable across the 3Cs. 

Columbus actually had a plan that would use tax revenues directly generated by Amazon to build transit.

 

 

That's good news but Amazon could still say, "Well, you don't have it already."

 

Seattle had terrible transit for many years and ridership was steadily declining until Amazon became such a big influence.  If transit was so important, Columbus, Indy, Raleigh and others never would've made top 20.

Seattle's transit is still way way better than any of the 3Cs except perhaps Cleveland.  Before getting light rail they had the highest ridership of any bus focused transit system, and they also had a specially designed bus tunnel and at least when I was there a ton of express buses that run at all times of the day.

 

Also Seattle's growth started before Amazon it was partially due to buzz surrounding their world famous music scene back in the 1990s that got them out of their 1970s/80s funk.

 

Still a top 20 list, Transit is important to them (to the point where Bezos did fund a streetcar for them) which is why ATL, Pitts and Chicago top the list IMO.

Seattle's transit is still way way better than any of the 3Cs except perhaps Cleveland.  Before getting light rail they had the highest ridership of any bus focused transit system, and they also had a specially designed bus tunnel and at least when I was there a ton of express buses that run at all times of the day.

 

Also Seattle's growth started before Amazon it was partially due to buzz surrounding their world famous music scene back in the 1990s that got them out of their 1970s/80s funk.

 

 

 

It all goes back to Metal Church

The only reason Seattle really took off is because Bill Gates and Paul Allen got homesick and moved their tiny company from New Mexico back to Seattle.  Otherwise Albuquerque might have become the home of Microsoft and then a whole ensuing world of other tech stuff. 

 

The fact that the Bay Area and Seattle became the two big tech hubs is pretty random.  It was not an inevitability.  It could have happened at Oak Ridge, TN or anywhere else where a lot of scientists were clustered in the 1970s.  It could have happened in Rochester.  It could have happened in Cincinnati, if Milacron's "George" computer had taken off. 

^And don't forget Ft. Worth.  We might have Ft. Worth/Dallas airport instead of what we have now if Tandy computers had been sold everywhere instead of just Radio Shack. 

The only reason Seattle really took off is because Bill Gates and Paul Allen got homesick and moved their tiny company from New Mexico back to Seattle. 

 

^This.  Microsoft's influence over Seattle (way before Amazon, Starbucks, and Costco) is what clearly grew the city from a logging port town to a significant small-ish global city.

The only reason Seattle really took off is because Bill Gates and Paul Allen got homesick and moved their tiny company from New Mexico back to Seattle.  Otherwise Albuquerque might have become the home of Microsoft and then a whole ensuing world of other tech stuff. 

 

The fact that the Bay Area and Seattle became the two big tech hubs is pretty random.  It was not an inevitability.  It could have happened at Oak Ridge, TN or anywhere else where a lot of scientists were clustered in the 1970s.  It could have happened in Rochester.  It could have happened in Cincinnati, if Milacron's "George" computer had taken off. 

 

Dayton Ohio could have even gotten it because it already had a heavy legacy industry at the time...

The only reason Seattle really took off is because Bill Gates and Paul Allen got homesick and moved their tiny company from New Mexico back to Seattle.  Otherwise Albuquerque might have become the home of Microsoft and then a whole ensuing world of other tech stuff. 

 

The fact that the Bay Area and Seattle became the two big tech hubs is pretty random.  It was not an inevitability.  It could have happened at Oak Ridge, TN or anywhere else where a lot of scientists were clustered in the 1970s.  It could have happened in Rochester.  It could have happened in Cincinnati, if Milacron's "George" computer had taken off. 

 

Dayton Ohio could have even gotten it because it already had a heavy legacy industry at the time...

 

Dayton had it before Silicon Valley.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-31989802

Chamber chief says Cincinnati needs to improve transportation after region’s Amazon loss

 

 

While Cincinnati development officials have yet to do a post-mortem after the region did not make Amazon.com Inc.’s short list for its second headquarters, Cincinnati USA Regional Chamber CEO Jill Meyer said she believes the region needs to bolster its transportation system in order to seize similar, future opportunities.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/01/18/chamber-chief-says-cincinnati-needs-to-improve.html

Compare this:

 

Both Cincinnati USA Regional Chamber CEO Jill Meyer and REDI Cincinnati CEO Johnna Reeder noted that each of those regions is farther along in overhauling their transportation networks than Cincinnati. Indianapolis has passed a regional tax increase to overhaul its bus system and add rail-like bus rapid transit service. Columbus received a federal Smart Cities grant, worked with local businesses to make bus rides free for downtown workers and realigned its bus routes. Pittsburgh has rail service and is a test city for Uber’s driverless rideshare service.

 

To this:

 

Cranley pointed to a study showing Cincinnati has the fastest-growing economy in the Midwest and that Vantiv will become a Fortune 500 company, but he also cited a need for enhanced public transportation and to reduce the city’s poverty rate.

 

This guy still doesn't get it. He's still talking about public transportation like it's a social service.

To be fair not having a good transportation system does hold back those who cannot afford cars.  Consequently, since those individuals cannot reach jobs is keeps them from benefiting economically.

I think Cincinnati leadership knew they were not going to get HQ2 but hoping to get on the finalist list in order to elevate the city's national profile for other potential site selection opportunities. Before the city was not on the national radar in any meaningful way, but now it is so in a somewhat tarnished light as an HQ2 also-ran.

There’s path-dependency in play in stuff like this. May I suggest as a first step: https://cincinnatiideas.com/2017/04/20/cincinnati-needs-people-vision-10000/

I think Cincinnati leadership knew they were not going to get HQ2 but hoping to get on the finalist list in order to elevate the city's national profile for other potential site selection opportunities. Before the city was not on the national radar in any meaningful way, but now it is so in a somewhat tarnished light as an HQ2 also-ran.

 

I honestly don't think missing out casts Cincinnati, Cleveland, or other similar cities in a negative light.

 

Does anyone here care that St. Louis didn't make the list? Milwaukee? Detroit? Memphis? Charlotte? Orlando? Tampa? Houston? New Orleans? Minneapolis?

 

No. No one will remember. I agree it's free publicity for Pittsburgh, Columbus, Indy, etc. But it doesn't in any way hurt the image of Cincinnati that we didn't make the cut for the final 20.