I said i think that Cincy is too small and doesn't have enough professionals to satisfy the demands of a multinational like Vantiv/worldpay. If you think otherwise, tell us about it.

 

It's a direct measure of your argument's quality that a counter-argument of "nuh-uh" would have equivalent soundness and evidentiary support. If you wonder why people don't seem to be responding to you as directly as you'd like, that's why.

 

I don't really understand your first sentence. Most here use this forum as a sort of electronic water cooler to gather around and relax while getting things off of their chest and they use Cincinnati as a sort of 'meme' through which to do it. They don't come here looking for challenging or carefully thought out discussions about Cincinnati. I'm the nerdy annoying guy who joins the group who are laughing and joking by bringing up serious or challenging ideas. That's fine with me.

 

Support your anecdotes with real, concrete research and information! I dare you. I double dare you!!!

Even professionals can get confused or be misguided when straying beyond their area of expertise. That's what I see in many posts here.

 

And what, might I ask, is your area of expertise?

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/22/lisnr-2018-disruptor-50.html

 

Here's a promising example to demonstrate to investors what can be achieved in Cincinnati. Still, we should remember that it was the state of Ohio that provided key investment in Lisnr's initial stage, not anyone in Cincinnati itself. There is hope brothers and sisters! Being realistic about Cincinnati's place in the world will not destroy us. It will make us stronger!

 

Cincinnati is both awesome and an abyss at the same time. It is both stodgy, set in its ways, and innovative. There is hope! There is static. There is despair. Where's the water cooler? :P

 

However on a more serious note. I think we all can agree that Cincinnati has its own challenges and there is room for improvement. I think our discussions would be more productive if we talked more about meaningful ways forward instead of getting caught up in semantics, details and naysaying. We're all urbanists (supposedly) on this board so really we're all on the same team. Picking apart arguments might be fun for some but it seriously ruins the posters credibility.

Even professionals can get confused or be misguided when straying beyond their area of expertise. That's what I see in many posts here.

 

And what, might I ask, is your area of expertise?

 

I'm a full-time resident of Cincinnati. Don't worry about whether my credentials or social standing are of a sufficiently high status for you to acknowledge my comments. I have no desire to challenge anyone's position as respectable upstanding gentlemen (I get the impression that this is a boys club). If my ideas are useful to you, say so. If not, so be it. I'm just putting it out there.

https://www.inc.com/jeff-barrett/you-probably-havent-thought-to-start-a-business-in-cincinnati-heres-why-you-should.html.

 

Cincinnati is getting some attention as a place to try new things. Let's hope that this gets some traction in the months and years ahead. Cincinnati can't depend on established companies forever. It needs new blood. Maybe that is starting to emerge here.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/22/lisnr-2018-disruptor-50.html

 

Here's a promising example to demonstrate to investors what can be achieved in Cincinnati. Still, we should remember that it was the state of Ohio that provided key investment in Lisnr's initial stage, not anyone in Cincinnati itself. There is hope brothers and sisters! Being realistic about Cincinnati's place in the world will not destroy us. It will make us stronger!

 

Cincinnati is both awesome and an abyss at the same time. It is both stodgy, set in its ways, and innovative. There is hope! There is static. There is despair. Where's the water cooler? :P

 

However on a more serious note. I think we all can agree that Cincinnati has its own challenges and there is room for improvement. I think our discussions would be more productive if we talked more about meaningful ways forward instead of getting caught up in semantics, details and naysaying. We're all urbanists (supposedly) on this board so really we're all on the same team. Picking apart arguments might be fun for some but it seriously ruins the posters credibility.

 

My entire point in posting here is to show that there is "room for improvement." I don't know of an American city that does so little with so much as Cincinnati. I just wish Cincinnatians could really see what their city has and have the confidence to tell the world about it.

My entire point in posting here is to show that there is "room for improvement." I don't know of an American city that does so little with so much as Cincinnati. I just wish Cincinnatians could really see what their city has and have the confidence to tell the world about it.

 

Everyone already agrees with this. It's why so many people spend so much time posting on here, and why people like me enjoy reading what they've written. The key is, do you have anything interesting to say, anything substantive, anything data-driven, anything that would require a level of expertise unavailable to the public at large. If not, consider not posting, even if what you have to say is, from your point of view, benign.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/22/lisnr-2018-disruptor-50.html

 

Here's a promising example to demonstrate to investors what can be achieved in Cincinnati. Still, we should remember that it was the state of Ohio that provided key investment in Lisnr's initial stage, not anyone in Cincinnati itself. There is hope brothers and sisters! Being realistic about Cincinnati's place in the world will not destroy us. It will make us stronger!

 

Cincinnati is both awesome and an abyss at the same time. It is both stodgy, set in its ways, and innovative. There is hope! There is static. There is despair. Where's the water cooler? :P

 

However on a more serious note. I think we all can agree that Cincinnati has its own challenges and there is room for improvement. I think our discussions would be more productive if we talked more about meaningful ways forward instead of getting caught up in semantics, details and naysaying. We're all urbanists (supposedly) on this board so really we're all on the same team. Picking apart arguments might be fun for some but it seriously ruins the posters credibility.

 

My entire point in posting here is to show that there is "room for improvement." I don't know of an American city that does so little with so much as Cincinnati. I just wish Cincinnatians could really see what their city has and have the confidence to tell the world about it.

 

Almost every Cincinnatian that posts on this forum does see the potential that Cincinnati has, and wants the city to achieve more. That's why they spend time on this forum. That's why many of them have been involved in various efforts in their communities.

 

Coming onto this form and constantly beating the "Cincinnati isn't living up to its potential" drum without adding more substantive ideas to the discussion is not helpful.

https://www.inc.com/jeff-barrett/you-probably-havent-thought-to-start-a-business-in-cincinnati-heres-why-you-should.html.

 

Cincinnati is getting some attention as a place to try new things. Let's hope that this gets some traction in the months and years ahead. Cincinnati can't depend on established companies forever. It needs new blood. Maybe that is starting to emerge here.

 

Nice find!

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/22/lisnr-2018-disruptor-50.html

 

Here's a promising example to demonstrate to investors what can be achieved in Cincinnati. Still, we should remember that it was the state of Ohio that provided key investment in Lisnr's initial stage, not anyone in Cincinnati itself. There is hope brothers and sisters! Being realistic about Cincinnati's place in the world will not destroy us. It will make us stronger!

 

Cincinnati is both awesome and an abyss at the same time. It is both stodgy, set in its ways, and innovative. There is hope! There is static. There is despair. Where's the water cooler? :P

 

However on a more serious note. I think we all can agree that Cincinnati has its own challenges and there is room for improvement. I think our discussions would be more productive if we talked more about meaningful ways forward instead of getting caught up in semantics, details and naysaying. We're all urbanists (supposedly) on this board so really we're all on the same team. Picking apart arguments might be fun for some but it seriously ruins the posters credibility.

 

My entire point in posting here is to show that there is "room for improvement." I don't know of an American city that does so little with so much as Cincinnati. I just wish Cincinnatians could really see what their city has and have the confidence to tell the world about it.

 

Almost every Cincinnatian that posts on this forum does see the potential that Cincinnati has, and wants the city to achieve more. That's why they spend time on this forum. That's why many of them have been involved in various efforts in their communities.

 

Coming onto this form and constantly beating the "Cincinnati isn't living up to its potential" drum without adding more substantive ideas to the discussion is not helpful.

 

If that's their view, they don't do a good job of expressing it. This forum is filling with explanations of why Cincinnati must accept its place in the world...'it's hard for Cincinnati to attract conventions and concerts because of....' or 'growth in other cities is just an illusion and Cincinnati is really better off without it."  It reads like a list of excuses shared between people who see an inevitability in Cincinnati's current situation. I'm just disagreeing with that narrative. Increased spending on promoting Cincinnati as a destination is a "substantive idea" that I've offered. Some gleefully tripped over each other in a rush to immediately dismiss it. That response is the most illuminating thing I've seen on this forum. It speaks volumes about Cincinnati. You're shooting the messenger here.

You're lumping a bunch of different things together and either misunderstanding or intentionally distorting people's positions.

 

Pointing out that it's harder for Cincinnati to attract certain types of concerts and conventions as compared to places like Kansas City or Denver is not the same thing as making excuses for Cincinnati. It's simply pointing out a fact. Cincinnati has a lot more competition from nearby cities than KC or Denver, which don't have as many nearby cities to compete with. Denver and Columbus are going to automatically get "government" oriented conventions and Cincinnati isn't. By pointing that out, I am not saying that "Cincinnati must accept its place in the world" or not do more to attract more conventions/concerts/tourism.

 

Personally I think that it's more advantageous for Cincinnati to focus on recreational tourism as well as concerts and events that will be a more regional draw, not just conventions. I think that many people who attend Blink or Bunbury will actually spend time in Cincinnati's urban core will "fall in love" with the city in a way that conventioneers won't. I also think that Cincinnati should make a strong effort to attract people from nearby cities and promote the idea of a "weekend getaway to Cincinnati." Despite the fact that the New York Times and other publications have published articles of this nature about Cincinnati, our local tourism organizations have not picked up this ball and ran with it.

It speaks volumes about Cincinnati. You're shooting the messenger here.

 

No, we're pointing out that the messenger has no message besides complaining and posting the same vague critiques over and over.

He's like a someone that can't accept that Goldeneye 007 can't come out as a download on Nintendo Switch since Microsoft bought the company that made it then the James Bond people don't want it out and all of the actors would have to be tracked down to sign all new contracts again PLUS N64 emulation still sucks. But those are just excuses!

Amazon to hire 500 in Greater Cincinnati

By Erin Caproni  – Digital Producer, Cincinnati Business Courier

 

 

Amazon.com Inc. is launching a hiring spree in Greater Cincinnati.

 

The online retail giant plans to hire 500 full-time, permanent employees for its operations in Hebron.

 

Available positions cover a variety of roles, responsibilities and shift times, and part-time opportunities are also available.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/05/29/amazon-to-hire-500-in-greater-cincinnati.html

Covergys, a Fortune 1000 company, has been sold to Synnex, a company based in the Bay Area. Lets hope they do not layoff or move their local workforce.

Behind the paywall in case you aren't a subscriber to the Courier

 

Greater Cincinnati banks plan to merge

 

Two small Greater Cincinnati banks that are a combined more than two centuries old have agreed to merge in order to boost their size and make it easier to compete.

 

Cincinnati Federal, based in Green Township and founded in 1922, will merge Kentucky Federal Savings and Loan Association into its operations once the deal is complete. That’s expected to take place in the fourth quarter this year.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/07/23/greater-cincinnati-banks-plan-to-merge.html

I'm hoping this means that the combined HQ will stay in Cincinnati. They plan to make that decision by the end of the year. I will personally consider it a significant lose if they keep the combined HQ in Maryland.

 

Mercy Health CEO to lead hospital system after merger

 

John Starcher, CEO of Mercy Health, revealed Monday that he will continue as chief executive when the Cincinnati-based hospital system merges with the Maryland-based Bon Secours hospital system this fall.

 

Rich Statuto, CEO of Bon Secours, will serve as an adviser for the next year, primarily focused on strategic growth and innovation after the hospital systems combine operations. Statuto, 61, plans to retire in 2019 after 24 years as the chief executive of health systems, including 13 years as CEO of Bon Secours.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/07/23/mercy-health-ceo-to-lead-hospital-system-after.html

I'm hoping this means that the combined HQ will stay in Cincinnati. They plan to make that decision by the end of the year. I will personally consider it a significant lose if they keep the combined HQ in Maryland.

 

Mercy Health CEO to lead hospital system after merger

 

John Starcher, CEO of Mercy Health, revealed Monday that he will continue as chief executive when the Cincinnati-based hospital system merges with the Maryland-based Bon Secours hospital system this fall.

 

Rich Statuto, CEO of Bon Secours, will serve as an adviser for the next year, primarily focused on strategic growth and innovation after the hospital systems combine operations. Statuto, 61, plans to retire in 2019 after 24 years as the chief executive of health systems, including 13 years as CEO of Bon Secours.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/07/23/mercy-health-ceo-to-lead-hospital-system-after.html

 

Its all going to be based on who gives a better incentive package unfortunately. Ohio or Maryland will have to put there best cards forward to keep the HQ.

This firm will bring 2,000 jobs to P&G’s former Blue Ash campus

By Tom Demeropolis  – Senior Staff Reporter, Cincinnati Business Courier

Sep 14, 2018, 9:00am EDT Updated an hour ago

 

 

Ensemble Health Partners has selected the location for its new corporate campus in Greater Cincinnati.

 

Ensemble will be moving into the West campus of the former Procter & Gamble Co. Sharon Woods Innovation Center in Blue Ash. Ensemble, which specializes in the management and collection of patient service revenue for hospital systems nationwide, plans a complete renovation of the more than 300,000-square-foot facility. Plus, Ensemble plans to build an additional 100,000 square feet of space on the 54-acre property.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/09/14/this-firm-will-bring-2-000-jobs-to-p-g-s-former.html

Spring Grove Village and Hamilton based 80 Acres Urban Agriculture was featured in the Washington Post:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/lifestyle/led-growing/

 

Quote

Thousands of young collard greens are growing vigorously under a glow of pink-purple lamps in a scene that seems to have come from a sci-fi movie, or at least a NASA experiment. But Zelkind is at the helm of an earthbound enterprise. He is chief executive of 80 Acres Farms, with a plant factory in an uptown Cincinnati neighborhood where warehouses sit cheek by jowl with detached houses.

Since plants emerged on Earth, they have relied on the light of the sun to feed and grow through the process of photosynthesis.

But Zelkind is part of a radical shift in agriculture — decades in the making — in which plants can be grown commercially without a single sunbeam. A number of technological advances have made this possible, but none more so than innovations in LED lighting.

 

So this is kind of related to cincinnati, kinda not. 

 

Amazon announced Nashville will be getting an amazon corporate tower in downtown nashville with 5,000 new workers and high paying jobs. 

 

 I remember nashville as a little kid, teenager. It was always a mid sized city that had a strong base with country music. Obviously that's grown a bit over the years....But I've always been scratching my head as to why Nashville is the new, "BIG" city. I drove by, construction cranes everywhere. There skyline is growing at a crazy fast pace. Towers popping up everywhere...and all I can do is ask where, how, who, why? I understand the country music industry has some effect, but why are all of these jobs relocating to Nashville? What's causing this? What resource is nashville pulling in that makes every new resident and job to move there? 

 

And how can cincinnati replicate this? Nashville makes me jealous, because it's growth is what I've wanted to see from cincy...and they were literally identical sized cities a decade ago, and now nashville just went crazy...

Edited November 14, 20186 yr by troeros

4 minutes ago, troeros said:

So this is kind of related to cincinnati, kinda not. 

 

Amazon announced Nashville will be getting an amazon corporate tower in downtown nashville with 5,000 new workers and high paying jobs. 

 

 I remember nashville as a little kid, teenager. It was always a mid sized city that had a strong base with country music. Obviously that's grown a bit over the years....But I've always been scratching my head as to why Nashville is the new, "BIG" city. I drove by, construction cranes everywhere. There skyline is growing at a crazy fast pace. Towers popping up everywhere...and all I can do is ask where, how, who, why? I understand the country music industry has some effect, but why are all of these jobs relocating to Nashville? What's causing this? What resource is nashville pulling in that makes every new resident and job to move there? 

 

And how can cincinnati replicate this? Nashville makes me jealous, because it's growth is what I've wanted to see from cincy...and they were literally identical sized cities a decade ago, and now nashville just went crazy...

 

In my mind, it boils down to two things (though I'm sure there are more):

 

1. Nashville embraced its funky image and went whole hog on tourism as a driver. This put them on the map and attracted outside investment. At the same time, Cincinnati was kvetching about whether flying pigs would make them look silly. 

 

2. Despite being in a red state, Nashville and Davidson County have fully embraced progressive policies for a long time now. They've went bold and big with public projects and they've done everything they can to make the city welcoming and desirable. Cincinnati, on the other hand, was until 2004 the only city in the nation whose charter expressly barred ordinances related to gay rights. Local politics, while moving left, have historically been dominated by groups like COAST which oppose taxes at all cost and fight to shut down any ambitious public projects. Just look at the Kansas City streetcar vs. the Cincinnati one. One of them has a local government that has worked to make it reliable, convenient, and free. The other is Cincinnati. Even the name of our Downtown is off-putting to anyone that might want to spend time here. Philly has Center City. Chicago has The Loop. Nashville has SoBro. Cincinnati has the Central Business District. 

I mean I get that, but Portland and Austin (IMO) have had the same memorable effect (if not more so) and I would argue that while they are experiencing resonating growth, it's not in the same league compared to Nashville. 

 

2. Sure, but many large Nashville projects have faltered as well, just look at their recent failed public transit project. Also, I don't really think acronyms matters for the success of a downtown. I've met many out of towners who thought OTR was our downtown the first time they came to cincy. 

 

 When cities rise, it's because they are pulling in jobs. Industries look at the city, and say I want to move their. What's making these industries move to Nashville...none of those reasons DEPACincy really ring true IMO. 

"What's making these industries move to Nashville"?  industries moving to Nashville is what's making industries move to Nashville.  With a critical mass of growth, that growth itself becomes the driver of more growth, since much of our economy is based on sprawl-building, whether that's housing, roads/highways, cars, and the manufacturing, financing, and servicing thereof.  So you can say they're growing because they're growing, just like some people are famous because they're famous.  This is the typical MO for much of the sunbelt. 

So how do we make "Cincinnati being famous for just being famous"...

1 hour ago, DEPACincy said:

2. Despite being in a red state, Nashville and Davidson County have fully embraced progressive policies for a long time now. They've went bold and big with public projects and they've done everything they can to make the city welcoming and desirable. Cincinnati, on the other hand, was until 2004 the only city in the nation whose charter expressly barred ordinances related to gay rights. Local politics, while moving left, have historically been dominated by groups like COAST which oppose taxes at all cost and fight to shut down any ambitious public projects. Just look at the Kansas City streetcar vs. the Cincinnati one. One of them has a local government that has worked to make it reliable, convenient, and free. The other is Cincinnati. Even the name of our Downtown is off-putting to anyone that might want to spend time here. Philly has Center City. Chicago has The Loop. Nashville has SoBro. Cincinnati has the Central Business District. 

 

Um Nashville has NO rail transit, and the voters in 'progressive' Davidson County resoundly voted down a ballot measure to create a rail system in the city. 

 

I think your point about the name of downtown is a fairly silly one. First of all, almost no one calls downtown Cincinnati 'the Central Business District'. It's just downtown. It's not like Center City is some kind of fresh and exciting name for a downtown area. SoBro is South of Broadway- another hackneyed attempt at creating a SoHo type of name. And even if the lack of a 'cool' name for the downtown area is holding Cincy back, we have Over the Rhine (OTR for all those clamoring for the acronym naming convention approach) which is one of the coolest neighborhood names in the country.

 

In my opinion, Nashville's success is all about hype. I agree that they were able to successfully leverage their music city image/reputation, and they did a great job at promoting tourism and live music. I think they were successful at elevating their country music image to encompass 'entertainment' generally. They were able to attract musicians and entertainers of all genres away from LA and NY, and with that came the image of being 'cool'. Once that image was solidly established, the growth machine (like what @jjakucyk described) took over. Growth begets growth. Lenders see Nashville as a safe investment, and projects are able to come to fruition much faster there than in places like Cincinnati where gap financing almost always comes into the equation. Couple all this with the macro trend of population/economy moving to the Sunbelt, and you get a perfect storm of sorts. In the early 2000s Atlanta, Portland,and to a lesser extent Charlotte were the boomtowns. Now it's Nashville and Austin. There isn't any magical secret these cities were in on. They did some things right, got somewhat lucky, and had favorable demographic pictures to work with.

 

The more interesting question to me is not why Nashville took off while Cincinnati stayed relatively stagnant, but rather why Nashville got hot while Memphis stagnated. 

Quote

The more interesting question to me is not why Nashville took off while Cincinnati stayed relatively stagnant, but rather why Nashville got hot while Memphis stagnated. 

 

I am sure there are many factors but I'll throw out one: Vanderbilt University

Edited November 14, 20186 yr by JohnClevesSymmes

It's the fake it till you make it urban growth strategy!

38 minutes ago, edale said:

The more interesting question to me is not why Nashville took off while Cincinnati stayed relatively stagnant, but rather why Nashville got hot while Memphis stagnated. 

 

(White) Hipsters generally love places without racial strife/history.  Portland, Austin, Nashville, Charlotte, etc.  Memphis is the blackest metropolitan area in the country with a storied racial past.  Thus, a stagnant, non-hyped old Memphis.  It, along with Birmingham, New Orleans, and Richmond, might as well be "rustbelt cities."  Sure, you could say Detroit is "hot" for the hipsters right now but it's still declining.  

^ Yeah, I figured race was a big part of the answer.

 

New Orleans seems to be very popular with white hipsters though, so I don't know if I'd loop it in with the others you listed. Atlanta also had its fair share of racial strife over the years (hell, I guess you could say that about most American cities) but seems to have been able to move past it. Birmingham, Richmond, Memphis do seem fairly rust belty, and I know Birmingham at least shares the industrial/steel legacy with the rust belt cities, too. Maybe some urbanist thinker will come up with a name that sticks for the rust belt cities found in the sunbelt. The Rusty Bible Belt, perhaps?

27 minutes ago, ColDayMan said:

 

(White) Hipsters generally love places without racial strife/history.  Portland, Austin, Nashville, Charlotte, etc.  Memphis is the blackest metropolitan area in the country with a storied racial past.  Thus, a stagnant, non-hyped old Memphis.  It, along with Birmingham, New Orleans, and Richmond, might as well be "rustbelt cities."  Sure, you could say Detroit is "hot" for the hipsters right now but it's still declining.  

Truly an indictment when (white) hipsters flock to Nashville of all places, given country music's low status on the hipster scale.

Atlanta didn't grow due to white hype/hipsters but because of northern blacks wanting to move to a place they feel they can "make it."  New Orleans, like Detroit, is somewhat popular with (white) hipsters but not enough to enjoy a boom like Nashville and Austin and I'd argue race would be a major factor in that.  Think about all the areas in Portland, Austin, and Nashville that are booming.  They traditionally weren't lower income minority areas but light industrial spots or generic, lower-middle class (mostly) white neighborhoods like East Nashville or the Pearl District (or anywhere in Austin).  It's tough to "boom" in a city like New Orleans with swaths of lower-income minority communities hit hard due to recession, hurricanes, or past government failures.

7 minutes ago, Robuu said:

Truly an indictment when (white) hipsters flock to Nashville of all places, given country music's low status on the hipster scale.

 

Ironically, it was that country music industry that created recording studios in Nashville for a general white audience to use and modify.  That unpopular country music became a starting point for the Jack Whites to move into and fill up Bluebird Cafes away from the Rebas and Garths.  Nashville's trajectory from country to hipster is basically Taylor Swift.  It isn't like, say, Atlanta where Babyface's LaFace records created music studios which would then birth Atlanta's hip hop empire.

Nu-Country is about as unhipster as it gets, but old country (pre-Alabama, we'll say) and bluegrass are 100% hipster-approved.

Memphis is definitely southern rust belt, as is Birmingham like ColDayMan said.  There's no shortage of moribund southern cities, and Tennessee has several.  Knoxville and Chattanooga aren't really on anyone's radars, like memphis.  Winston-Salem, Norfolk, Richmond, and Mobile could just as well be Buffalo, Milwaukee, South Bend, or Toledo. 

 

The states that have some booming cities and some under-performing cities are the interesting ones.  It illustrates that it's not so much about state-level policies, but it's very likely due to the developmental legacies of the cities in question.  Greensboro doesn't seem as rust belt-y as Winston-Salem, and the two cities have similar population histories, but Winston-Salem seems to have more in the way of the cotton/tobacco industrial legacy, and its growth per decade is much less consistent that Greenboro which has been able to march past it. 

 

I think there's certainly something to be said for the ability of smaller more aspirational cities to "shoot for the sky" and actually succeed when they're not encumbered by decades or centuries of legacy infrastructure or service costs, and fewer entrenched special interest groups and culture.  They just need to get lucky with the timing and other factors at play.  When the local economy is so good, then those special interests have a harder time getting a foothold too. 

Mobile is truly a dump.  It's basically Paducah-by-the-Sea. 

 

The Amazon announcement in Nashville makes absolutely no sense.  Nearly non-existent public transportation and almost zero walkable neighborhoods.  The airport sucks.  The interstates suck.  There aren't any mature trees anywhere close to the downtown.  The river sucks.  Not many recreational activities nearby (mountains are a 4-hour drive, nearly as far as from Cincinnati). 

 

 

 

 

39 minutes ago, ColDayMan said:

 

Ironically, it was that country music industry that created recording studios in Nashville for a general white audience to use and modify.  That unpopular country music became a starting point for the Jack Whites to move into and fill up Bluebird Cafes away from the Rebas and Garths.  Nashville's trajectory from country to hipster is basically Taylor Swift.  It isn't like, say, Atlanta where Babyface's LaFace records created music studios which would then birth Atlanta's hip hop empire.

 

 

Taylor Swift is the perfect metaphor for Nashville.  There is no there there.  She's boring and her music is particle board. 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, edale said:

 

Um Nashville has NO rail transit, and the voters in 'progressive' Davidson County resoundly voted down a ballot measure to create a rail system in the city. 

 

I think your point about the name of downtown is a fairly silly one. First of all, almost no one calls downtown Cincinnati 'the Central Business District'. It's just downtown. It's not like Center City is some kind of fresh and exciting name for a downtown area. SoBro is South of Broadway- another hackneyed attempt at creating a SoHo type of name. And even if the lack of a 'cool' name for the downtown area is holding Cincy back, we have Over the Rhine (OTR for all those clamoring for the acronym naming convention approach) which is one of the coolest neighborhood names in the country.

 

 

I agree that their rejection of a rail system is a flaw in my point. But I feel like it's more the exception that proves the rule. I was surprised to see that happen and I think a lot of other people were too. 

 

Also, I don't think I made my point about downtown very well. I'm not arguing that Cincinnati's use of Central Business District as the official name for downtown is the reason that Cincinnati hasn't seen the success other cities have. That would be silly. Rather, I think the fact that it is still called that (and yes, people in government and the business community do call it that), is symbolic of the kind of "old school" thinking you find in Cincy. To those in power in Cincy, downtown has always been a place for Business, not a place for living or visiting. That's starting to change but it's been painfully slow. When I say I live downtown people say "Oh, OTR?" and when I tell them that no I live in actual downtown they give me a funny look. It's just one tiny thing, but I think it speaks to a mindset here. 

Is there any top Amazon executive that is from Nashville or wants to live there?

The Nashville transit failure was due in part to a massive astroturfing campaign by the Koch brothers.  They make COAST look like the sombrero guy in comparison.  

15 hours ago, DEPACincy said:

I don't think I made my point about downtown very well. I'm not arguing that Cincinnati's use of Central Business District as the official name for downtown is the reason that Cincinnati hasn't seen the success other cities have. That would be silly. Rather, I think the fact that it is still called that (and yes, people in government and the business community do call it that), is symbolic of the kind of "old school" thinking you find in Cincy. To those in power in Cincy, downtown has always been a place for Business, not a place for living or visiting. That's starting to change but it's been painfully slow. When I say I live downtown people say "Oh, OTR?" and when I tell them that no I live in actual downtown they give me a funny look. It's just one tiny thing, but I think it speaks to a mindset here. 

New Orleans uses 'CBD' for their CBD as well, though there is far more going on in Cincinnati's. New York has the Financial District, which is becoming more of a legitimate live-work-play neighborhood. CBD is a generic name, but it exists in the same ecosystem as 'Over-the-Rhine' and 'the Basin' which are flavorful enough to make the 'CBD' moniker nbd, imo.

19 hours ago, edale said:

 

Um Nashville has NO rail transit, and the voters in 'progressive' Davidson County resoundly voted down a ballot measure to create a rail system in the city. 

 

I think your point about the name of downtown is a fairly silly one. First of all, almost no one calls downtown Cincinnati 'the Central Business District'. It's just downtown. It's not like Center City is some kind of fresh and exciting name for a downtown area. SoBro is South of Broadway- another hackneyed attempt at creating a SoHo type of name. And even if the lack of a 'cool' name for the downtown area is holding Cincy back, we have Over the Rhine (OTR for all those clamoring for the acronym naming convention approach) which is one of the coolest neighborhood names in the country.

 

In my opinion, Nashville's success is all about hype. I agree that they were able to successfully leverage their music city image/reputation, and they did a great job at promoting tourism and live music. I think they were successful at elevating their country music image to encompass 'entertainment' generally. They were able to attract musicians and entertainers of all genres away from LA and NY, and with that came the image of being 'cool'. Once that image was solidly established, the growth machine (like what @jjakucyk described) took over. Growth begets growth. Lenders see Nashville as a safe investment, and projects are able to come to fruition much faster there than in places like Cincinnati where gap financing almost always comes into the equation. Couple all this with the macro trend of population/economy moving to the Sunbelt, and you get a perfect storm of sorts. In the early 2000s Atlanta, Portland,and to a lesser extent Charlotte were the boomtowns. Now it's Nashville and Austin. There isn't any magical secret these cities were in on. They did some things right, got somewhat lucky, and had favorable demographic pictures to work with.

 

The more interesting question to me is not why Nashville took off while Cincinnati stayed relatively stagnant, but rather why Nashville got hot while Memphis stagnated. 

 

They have one commuter rail line- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_City_Star

The crazy thing is that Memphis was much more Tennessee's "music city" than was Nashville until Nashville went on its crazy "Music City" hype campaign in the 1990s. 

 

Most of the early rock & roll was recorded in Memphis, along with blues and country.  The reason why the national labels set up offices in Nashville instead of Memphis was because the WSM "Grand 'ol Opry" show was the last show of its kind to survive and was syndicated throughout the country.  That gap for national syndication was enabled when 700 WLW canceled "Midwestern Hayride", which was the exact same sort of show but recorded and broadcast out of Cincinnati. 

 

I walked around the fabled "Music Row" in the mid-90s, before the national record labels consolidated.  The offices for places like Mercury and Polydor were amazingly small.  Like 25 workers max, including he receptionist up front.  The neighborhood felt like you were walking down Markbreit Ave. in Oakley.  it was absolutely nothing special. 

 

So from this tiny, tiny outpost of the LA entertainment industry, somehow Nashville's city fathers bred a thriving bachelorette party industry. 

 

I simply can't explain it.  Nashville is a silly and ugly place.  Few mature trees, railroad tracks and power poles everywhere.  If people are expecting the Gone With The Wind south, Nashville's absolutely not it.  Not only aren't there magnolia or other exotic trees, there aren't many trees at all.  Plenty of parking, though. 

 

 

Edited November 15, 20186 yr by jmecklenborg

2 hours ago, thomasbw said:

 

They have one commuter rail line- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_City_Star

 

Yeah I knew about their one commuter rail line. Not sure I would call that 'transit' though. 

The schedule is pretty limited.  Only one off-peak midday train, and no late trains.  So it only works for commuters who work predictable hours and who work within walking distance of its oddly-located station.  It would be like the Oasis line having a station down by Bicentennial Commons instead of the Transit Center. 

 

Also, Nashville's downtown is hilly - much hillier than ours.  It's a really annoying, hot walk from that station to the statehouse or where Amazon will be building. 

Applebee's finally hit the skids this decade. Sometimes Americans wake up and realize generic and flavorless sucks. So there may be hope yet that tastes will swing to cities with more than an ounce of flavor.

1 hour ago, jmecklenborg said:

So from this tiny, tiny outpost of the LA entertainment industry, somehow Nashville's city fathers bred a thriving bachelorette party industry. 

This is the best and most accurate line so far in this conversation.

I know this thread is getting derailed quickly, but I'll add to it. The fact that a place like Nashville has gathered this much attention has me worried about the overall "back to the core" movement across the country. People make comments that it is just a "fad" and will fade with time. It's hard to argue that it isn't just a fad when you look at Nashville...No OTR, No Playhouse Square, No German Village, No West Side Market or Findlay Market, None of the wonderful museums left for future generations, No properly built environment or architectural significance, Piss poor transit. Yet, why are people choosing to move here? It's not all just jobs either. Not with that level of growth. The fact that anyone would choose Nashville over any of the legacy cities shows that people may be moving to cities for the wrong reasons in my opinion.

23 minutes ago, YO to the CLE said:

I know this thread is getting derailed quickly, but I'll add to it. The fact that a place like Nashville has gathered this much attention has me worried about the overall "back to the core" movement across the country. People make comments that it is just a "fad" and will fade with time. It's hard to argue that it isn't just a fad when you look at Nashville...No OTR, No Playhouse Square, No German Village, No West Side Market or Findlay Market, None of the wonderful museums left for future generations, No properly built environment or architectural significance, Piss poor transit. Yet, why are people choosing to move here? It's not all just jobs either. Not with that level of growth. The fact that anyone would choose Nashville over any of the legacy cities shows that people may be moving to cities for the wrong reasons in my opinion.

 

Yeah, I agree with this completely.  Cleveland and Cincinnati each have much more going on in the "real city" department than Nashville or any of the Sunbelt cities.  We think of Columbus as a distant third in Ohio in that realm, but it still smokes Nashville in the "real stuff" department.  There is nothing in the entire state of Tennessee that compares with German Village, Victorian Village, or High St. 

 

The Nashville Symphony did get a great neoclassic symphony hall ten years ago that really adds tremendously to their downtown as it expanded south of Broadway, which was the traditional border.  The project was financed in large part by the Ingram Family, who is not unlike a northern philanthropic family.  Also, the downtown post office was turned into the Frist Center, a nice venue for traveling art exhibits similar to the CAC in Cincinnati. 

 

But Nashville lacks:

1. a respectable old art museum (sorry Cheekwood)

2. a ballet, opera, or theater company

3. any sort of iconic building (sorry imitation Parthenon)

4. any sort of iconic bridge

5. zero Amtrak service

6. almost zero real city parks (nothing like Washington Park or Burnett Woods in Cincinnati...but Warner Park out in the suburbs is a pretty nice big suburban forest like Mt. Airy)

7. no local chains or food (sorry, "Nashville Hot Chicken" is a post-2010 invention)

8. the river is unattractive and isn't used for recreation

9. no neighborhood business districts of the kind that are common in Ohio

10. no downtown square or gathering place.  No Fountain Square, no Public Square.  No nothing. 

 

This is the Nashville Farmer's Market, the closest thing they have to the sort of thing that exists in abundance in Ohio:

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1724289,-86.7898377,3a,75y,143.48h,83.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdF7lkbRqlgmv9ggDIjU-Ow!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 20186 yr by jmecklenborg

Just like Marvin Lewis. The city does not adjust very well. You need to change to gain momentum.