Probably on Delta connections through ATL and Detroit. 

Oh look! Delta is sensitive and listens! Just a bit too late.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20111129/BIZ01/311290020

^ delta, before all the flights got cut. This is about 90% the fault of the airport. The incentives were a small part of it, but I'd we had the same flights as we did in 2005 Chiquita wouldn't have been so gung-ho about leaving

 

Bingo. The majority of Chiquita's ops are in South & Central America an Europe. CVG has exactly one flight to Europe, Paris, which still requires a connection there to get people to Chiquita's European headquarters in Switzerland. There are zero direct flights from CVG to South & Central America. US Air's hub at CLT will fill all these gaps nicely.

I agree that flights came into play, but not nearly as much as Chiquita would have us believe.  Ultimately North Carolina gave $22 million in incentives.  Ohio was only willing to go to the $6-8 million range.  That pretty much was that, unfortunately.

Oh look! Delta is sensitive and listens! Just a bit too late.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20111129/BIZ01/311290020

 

I have a feeling it was no coincidence that announcement was made today....

North Carolina is on a roll. They have a better climate, more population/economic growth, beaches, and are now more educated than Ohio as percent of population with Bachelor's degrees. The public sector clients we had there were smart, sophisticated and open minded about economic development, transit, and urban design. And yes, Charlotte airport is a solid hub with excellent access to other cities.

 

However, I think Cincinnati is doing exactly what it should be doing now to compete against Charlotte. It can't play Charlotte's money game, and it can't play Charlotte's climate game. But it can continue to invest in schools, transit, neighborhood redevelopment, keeping YP's, and growing its nascent beer/river city culture. I think these goals have a much better chance of keeping Cincinnati competitive than if it were, say, Detroit or Buffalo.

North Carolina is on a roll. They have a better climate, more population/economic growth, beaches, and are now more educated than Ohio as percent of population with Bachelor's degrees. The public sector clients we had there were smart, sophisticated and open minded about economic development, transit, and urban design. And yes, Charlotte airport is a solid hub with excellent access to other cities.

 

However, I think Cincinnati is doing exactly what it should be doing now to compete against Charlotte. It can't play Charlotte's money game, and it can't play Charlotte's climate game. But it can continue to invest in schools, transit, neighborhood redevelopment, keeping YP's, and growing its nascent beer/river city culture. I think these goals have a much better chance of keeping Cincinnati competitive than if it were, say, Detroit or Buffalo.

 

The unfortunate thing is that Charlotte is already years ahead of Cincinnati in all the things you mentioned, especially considering how long it can take for things to get accomplished in Ohio and especially Southern Ohio. We are merely playing catch up at this point. And unfortunately I think weather counts more than one would think...

All about jobs. If weather had anything to do with it. Ohio wouldn't be as big as it is now. Charlotte has been bleeding jobs the last few years.

But now we get to look forward to 600 jobs filling the 300 that Chiquita is taking out of the city, and the Nielsen name that will adorn the building...

 

But aren't those jobs just moving over from NKY?  Sure, Cincinnati gets those "new" jobs, but this is still a net loss for the region.

It is - and it is a loss for the region. Covington loses out on a lot of much needed tax revenue, and Ohio used incentives to lure them across the river.

I don't see how this is a bad thing. Nielsen will fill twice as many jobs, after leaving Cincinnati ten years ago for Covington.

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2000/12/16/loc_ac_nielsen_co_moving.html

 

Cincinnati will be home to AC Nielsen's new regional headquarters. And we didn't have to waste $30M+ in state incentives.

Plus, based on that article from 2000, there were 125 Nielsen employees in the region, when it moved from Cincinnati to Covington. It was expected to grow to 169 jobs by 2003. Now, we're talking 600 jobs. So that's a net increase of 475 jobs from in 11 years. Does anyone know how many jobs Nielsen currently employs in Covington?

Ah, I just scrolled back a page, and the Enquirer article from September cited nearly 500 jobs. So we're still gaining jobs in the region with the move somehow.

Kasich: Ohio's perks only for companies that want to be here

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2011/11/29/kasich-ohios-perks-only-for.html?ed=2011-11-29&s=article_du&ana=e_du_pub

 

“The company has issues beyond what incentives can address," Kasich said in a prepared statement. "When it’s a priority to make sure incentive packages begin returning an investment for taxpayers as quickly as possible, we’re not going to be irresponsible and give away the store to try and keep a company that fundamentally doesn’t want to be here or which has already made up its mind to leave."

 

I don't like the guy, but he makes a good point.

I don't like the guy, but he makes a good point.

 

Strickland made the same point about NCR leaving Dayton, for which Kasich criticized Strickland. Politicians....

Kasich should offer incentives to companies already here in Ohio, for them to bring more manufacturing facilities to the state.

North Carolina is on a roll. They have a better climate, more population/economic growth, beaches, and are now more educated than Ohio as percent of population with Bachelor's degrees. The public sector clients we had there were smart, sophisticated and open minded about economic development, transit, and urban design. And yes, Charlotte airport is a solid hub with excellent access to other cities.

 

However, I think Cincinnati is doing exactly what it should be doing now to compete against Charlotte. It can't play Charlotte's money game, and it can't play Charlotte's climate game. But it can continue to invest in schools, transit, neighborhood redevelopment, keeping YP's, and growing its nascent beer/river city culture. I think these goals have a much better chance of keeping Cincinnati competitive than if it were, say, Detroit or Buffalo.

 

The unfortunate thing is that Charlotte is already years ahead of Cincinnati in all the things you mentioned, especially considering how long it can take for things to get accomplished in Ohio and especially Southern Ohio. We are merely playing catch up at this point. And unfortunately I think weather counts more than one would think...

 

Trust me, after working and spending plenty of time in the Charlotte region, it is not ahead of Cincinnati in institutions of higher education and culture, neighborhoods, urbanity, etc. It's still a metropolis of BBQ-loving piedmont foothill southerners who live overwhelmingly in leafy ranch subdivisions that creep right up to the edge of downtown. They were infused with NYC bankers in the 80's and 90's, and are now reaping those cultural benefits. We are not playing catch up to Charlotte.

^After many visits myself to that city, I couldn't agree more!  No loss here.  Way to bend over and take it like a champ NC.  Good luck ever recouping that 22 million back.......before they move again!  We will see if Aguirre becomes a nascart fan now.  :evil:

One other thing I hope comes out of this - a more regional approach to how incentives are offered.  As I have mentioned if a company was poached from one state to another I have no problem going after it to bring it home, but ultimately this is a waste of our resources.  It is much more effective to save the incentives to go after a company outside the region and bring them here - this seems obvious, but for some reason our leaders have not adopted this approach.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20111129/NEWS01/311300068/Why-Cincinnati-lost-Chiquita?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

 

"Charlotte is the optimal location for our business," he said.

 

 

If that was the case then why even think of leaving? Just do it.

If that was the case then why even think of leaving? Just do it.

 

Wouldn't allow them to extort $22MM worth of tax incentives out of NC.

Of course the Enquirer plasters Mallory's face on the article, and sure as shit stinks the third comment had to do with the streetcar.

 

I'll give the Enquirer one thing, they know how to rally their pathetic base.

Of course the Enquirer plasters Mallory's face on the article, and sure as sh!t stinks the third comment had to do with the streetcar.

 

I'll give the Enquirer one thing, they know how to rally their pathetic base.

 

I saw a number of tweets today blaming the loss on Mallory. A number went something like, "Stupid Cincinnati lost another company but at least they're getting their stupid streetcar!" Of course, the fact is that Charlotte is also planning their own streetcar in addition to their already-functioning light rail. Some people will use literally any excuse, ignoring whatever facts get in their way, to trash a project they don't like.

Also, I just found this post on the FlyerTalk.com forum:

 

I am CVG based. My neighbor works for Chiquita.

 

According to her, this deal has been in the works for months, and "the airline service is bad" is an excuse. Chiquita has ~300 employees based locally. Half of them do back-office admin type stuff and never travel, some travel regularly, and the higher-ups all fly private out of LUK.

 

Chiquita was out shopping for tax breaks and used the airport (and DL) as a scapegoat. It's just unfortunate now that she has to choose between quitting her job or uprooting her family.

 

Hope they like flying US.

Why Cincinnati lost Chiquita

9:37 PM, Nov. 29, 2011 

The Enquirer

 

Chiquita Brands International Inc. decided to leave Cincinnati for many reasons, but the biggest one is undeniable: Money.

 

Lured by the promise of big savings, better air service to Europe and Latin America and a more diverse workforce, Chiquita announced Tuesday that it plans to leave Cincinnati, site of its home office of 24 years, for Charlotte, N.C.

 

North Carolina offered a package of grants and tax incentives potentially worth $22.7 million over 11 years, enticing the relocation of the world's largest banana seller.

 

The counter offer from the state of Ohio and Cincinnati to keep the company downtown amounted to $6 million to $6.5 million, Chiquita chairman and CEO Fernando Aguirre told The Enquirer late Tuesday.A Job?

Unemployed Man Makes Thousands Per Month From Penny Stocks!

HoleInOneStocks.net

 

Read more at: http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20111129/NEWS01/311300068/Why-Cincinnati-lost-Chiquita?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Also, I just found this post on the FlyerTalk.com forum:

 

I am CVG based. My neighbor works for Chiquita.

 

According to her, this deal has been in the works for months, and "the airline service is bad" is an excuse. Chiquita has ~300 employees based locally. Half of them do back-office admin type stuff and never travel, some travel regularly, and the higher-ups all fly private out of LUK.

 

Chiquita was out shopping for tax breaks and used the airport (and DL) as a scapegoat. It's just unfortunate now that she has to choose between quitting her job or uprooting her family.

 

Hope they like flying US.

 

They may fly private out of Lunken for domestic flights, but if they have a lot of international flights they wouldn't be flying out of there.  And I'm sure they require a lot of international flights.

Isn't 22.7 million puny for a 3 billion dollar company??

^ Chiquitas net Income in 2010 was only 36 million. That 22 million package is 60 percent of last years income.

Technically it was more like 57 million, but still 22 million for doing nothing but moving some office spaces is like accepting free money.  Frankly I'm glad Cincinnati didn't cave in.

I never liked bananas anyway.

OMG what a risky move. This company can go down anytime. Im glad Ohio didn't put more effort into it. They are one monsoon away from Bankruptcy again.

Just saw with American Airlines likely bankruptcy that a merger with US Airways is being mentioned as a possible exit strategy.  Interesting to note that US Airways operates a hub in Charlotte, which benefits from the many flights/connections like CVG once had.  American operates hubs at JFK and Miami.  It would be interesting to see if a merger occurs what happens to Charlotte's flights.  Is there the potential to downsize Charlotte and use American's existing hubs?  Where would that leave Chiquita then in that instance?  I don't know enough about airlines to even know if that is feasible, but it would be a cruel irony for both Chiquita and Charlotte.

They posted a 47 million loss in 2009 I believe.  They're not really growing much.  Ohio/Cincinnati's whole thing was that they were investing in growing industries/companies.

Just saw with American Airlines likely bankruptcy that a merger with US Airways is being mentioned as a possible exit strategy.  Interesting to note that US Airways operates a hub in Charlotte, which benefits from the many flights/connections like CVG once had.  American operates hubs at JFK and Miami.  It would be interesting to see if a merger occurs what happens to Charlotte's flights.  Is there the potential to downsize Charlotte and use American's existing hubs?  Where would that leave Chiquita then in that instance?  I don't know enough about airlines to even know if that is feasible, but it would be a cruel irony for both Chiquita and Charlotte.

 

Probably not the best place to discuss this, but that thought came into my mind as well. If AA merges, it will almost certainly be with US or jetBlue; HOWEVER, CLT is well position to still be a hub even with integration for a multitude of reasons.

Also, I just found this post on the FlyerTalk.com forum:

 

I am CVG based. My neighbor works for Chiquita.

 

According to her, this deal has been in the works for months, and "the airline service is bad" is an excuse. Chiquita has ~300 employees based locally. Half of them do back-office admin type stuff and never travel, some travel regularly, and the higher-ups all fly private out of LUK.

 

Chiquita was out shopping for tax breaks and used the airport (and DL) as a scapegoat. It's just unfortunate now that she has to choose between quitting her job or uprooting her family.

 

Hope they like flying US.

 

They may fly private out of Lunken for domestic flights, but if they have a lot of international flights they wouldn't be flying out of there.  And I'm sure they require a lot of international flights.

 

Even domestically, Chiquita employees and execs use Delta primarily. If you follow Chiquita's CEO on Twitter, he talks openly about his travel itineraries and tweets in flight via Delta's wifi quite often. 

Has Pierre Foods rec'd any incentives?

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20111127/BIZ01/111270335/No-1-AdvancePierre-Foods-has-taste-growth?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|s

 

• 
  
• 
  

I am CVG based. My neighbor works for Chiquita.

 

According to her, this deal has been in the works for months, and "the airline service is bad" is an excuse. Chiquita has ~300 employees based locally. Half of them do back-office admin type stuff and never travel, some travel regularly, and the higher-ups all fly private out of LUK.

 

Chiquita was out shopping for tax breaks and used the airport (and DL) as a scapegoat. It's just unfortunate now that she has to choose between quitting her job or uprooting her family.

 

Hope they like flying US.

 

Read more: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,3374.480.html#ixzz1fFAepLuc

 

 

• 
  
• 
  

Chiquita Brands International Inc. decided to leave Cincinnati for many reasons, but the biggest one is undeniable: Money.

 

 

 

^^

These two quotes say it all - part of me wishes Ohio had done more (and according to Aguirre the city did not do much either).  Ultimately a package that is only worth 27-31% of another will not get it done regardless of air service.  I can see that Chiquita is a risky investment, but it is never good to lose an HQ.  We will see how this bet plays out and hopefully our "pro-business" governor can score a win for the city (from outside the metro), although I have little faith in him.

 

 

 

 

 

I was thinking the same thing about the number of employees who actually fly for work on a routine basis, it could not be that much of the 300 people.

 

If Ohio had matched NC. All the problems he had talked about would have still existed.

^ True, but Aguirre has mentioned he has been here for some time and has established relationships and would have loved to have stayed.  He is also a minority owner of the Reds.  I would prefer leaders that find reasons why they should go after businesses as opposed to those that find reasons why they should not.  See his response to this question:

 

  Q: What ultimately made you decide to leave for Charlotte?

 

A: Bottom line, the money we are going to get - $24 million in incentives and $4 million in savings every year (from consolidating offices in California, Chicago, Texas and Florida and real estate/building costs).

 

That compares to roughly $6.5 million of the maximized incentives in the state of Ohio after many, many negotiations and sessions and discussions. Gov. John Kasich got involved - but it just came up really short on what Charlotte and North Carolina did."

 

 

If Ohio had matched NC. All the problems he had talked about would have still existed.

 

Which is ultimately why I think it was smart for Kasich to basically say 'f*ck it' in regards to Chiquita and focus resources on companies that actually want to be here AND that Ohio can meet the needs of right now (ie. Nielsen and Sears)

^But Sears decided it was staying in Chicagoland. Why are you mentioning them? I haven't heard Kasich or anyone else talking about meeting their needs, since the decision was made.

IT makes you wonder about the gov of Ohio. Did they try hard enough??? It seems they offered Sears 400 million!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

http://content.usatoday.net/dist/custom/gci/InsidePage.aspx?cId=cincinnati&sParam=38055773.story

Sears is about as risky as Chiquita is, maybe more.  At least people will always eat bananas.  Who the hell shops at Sears or KMart anymore?  I hope to god Ohio doesn't get them for $400MM.

$400 million, and it'd be to get Sears to Columbus, not Cincinnati.  I'm not sure when that switched but I'd assume Kasich had something to do with it.  He's done a number of things that show he doesn't care much for Cincinnati.

Alright this is starting to make sense...any package over $6.5 million for 330 $100k jobs is giving away the store while a package of $400 million for 6,200 jobs is good business.  This offer to Sears is more than 61 times the value of the offer to Chiquita for just under 19 times as many jobs (which I am sure do not have a salary average of more than 100k).  Thanks guv - nice effort and I appreciate the wise and economical use of incentives.

$400 million, and it'd be to get Sears to Columbus, not Cincinnati.  I'm not sure when that switched but I'd assume Kasich had something to do with it.  He's done a number of things that show he doesn't care much for Cincinnati.

Are you saying corruption  maybe involved? Steering development to a certain part of the state at the expense of others?

Wasn't it John Barret of Western Southern that got this whole ball rolling initially anyway? 

$400 million, and it'd be to get Sears to Columbus, not Cincinnati.  I'm not sure when that switched but I'd assume Kasich had something to do with it.  He's done a number of things that show he doesn't care much for Cincinnati.

Are you saying corruption  maybe involved? Steering development to a certain part of the state at the expense of others?

 

Not saying it's corruption, I just don't remember when Cincinnati got tossed out as a candidate and Columbus got tossed in, or why that happened.  I remember it was Cincy, Washington DC, and a couple other cities at one point.  I wonder why it changed to Columbus v. Austin, TX.

^That's what I remember too.  Cbus came out of left field and while I wouldn't complain if they did move to downtown Cbus, I highly doubt that happens.  I picture suburban Cbus which I believe would seal the fate of Sears moving there to wither away.  When I think of Cbus, I think of government and insurance. 

 

Cincy seemed the more likely fit due to the strong collection of marketing and branding presence here.  Even the fact that some competitors are already based here (Macy's, Kroger) and a pretty big supplier of Kmart (P&G) could be right next door only adds to my confusion as to why Cbus.   

 

I guess we have to wait for more details to come out, but I'm feeling pretty uneasy that this ultimately will benefit Ohio and Sears if they move to a suburban or rural setting ANYWHERE in the state. 

 

Wasn't it Sears who said their recruiting quality, morale, and productivity decreased after leaving downtown Chitown or was that just people on this site saying that?