I think we're getting warmer. I know it has been through review already.

Spiegelberg Orchards property to be developed as part of JEDD agreement

https://chroniclet.com/news/183928/spiegelberg-orchards-property-to-be-developed-as-part-of-jedd-agreement/

That's awesome.  Midway Mall rots, but it's cool, we'll just develop a brand new 124 acre project the next exit over.  I'm sure it will do well.

 

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 29, 2020

Amazon may be eyeing Lorain orchard site for huge Fulfillment Center

 

An Amazon Fulfillment Center, employing 600 people and perhaps many more, appears to be in the works for a former apple orchard off State Route 2, south of the city of Lorain. The site is about 25 miles west of downtown Cleveland.

The 105-acre site is the now-closed Spiegelberg Orchards, 6161 Middle Ridge Rd. It is located at the interchange of Route 2 and Middle Ridge which becomes Broadway Avenue in the city of Lorain. The development site is north of the highway. Another 20 acres of former orchard land south of Route 2 is reportedly not involved.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/04/amazon-may-be-eyeing-lorain-orchard.html

 

This would be the first Amazon center in greater Cleveland that isn't being developed on a brownfield. All in all we have seriously lucked out with our Amazon centers not all being out in farmland, even if this location is less than ideal to our tastes. I'm glad to see most of the tax dollars would be going to Lorain.

well there are better suited properties than that for another amazon slave labor warehouse, like closer to the midway mall.

 

unfortunately, this is a perfect site, away from the main mall traffic and next to the highway and turnpike.

 

such a nice orchard business, its too bad.

 

i dont blame them though, they would never get a better deal to sell.

 

and its not like lorain cant use the jobs.

 

 

I pulled the article back because I've since received conflicting information that it may not be Amazon after all.

What does Carvana need 150 acres in Lorain, Ohio for!?  Normal car dealership lots are 10-20 acres tops, and obviously Carvana doesn't have normal dealerships.

 

 https://www.morningjournal.com/business/carvana-purchases-previous-spiegelberg-orchards-land-worth-5-million/article_e34d629e-de6c-11ea-9b02-47bc91994b02.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_content=fb-morningjournal

Edited August 15, 20204 yr by West153

I had a tip that Carvana was buying it, but I didn't write a story because it didn't make sense and no one could tell me why. Like you said, what does Carvana need so much land for?

Quick Google search leads me to believe this might be some sort of a regional vehicle "reconditioning center".  I see there's one planned outside Indy and another one planned in the Carolinas somewhere.  Each of these facilities would occupy north of 70 acres and employ 200+ people.

Edited August 15, 20204 yr by West153

Is this the same orchard which was rumored to be turned into an Amazon center not too long ago?

3 minutes ago, PoshSteve said:

Is this the same orchard which was rumored to be turned into an Amazon center not too long ago?

 

Yes

* sigh* i guess we need nice old apple orchards as much as we needed the old greenhouses in avon and avon lake.

 

at least its good jobs -- i think its for fixing up old cars for their lots to sell?

 

its an arizona company that is supposed to be good for people who don't like bothering negotiating for used cars.

 

https://www.carvana.com

 

look at this crazy car tower dispenser vending machine:

 

https://kdvr.com/news/local/carvana-car-vending-machine-proposed-at-i-25-and-evans/

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 19, 20204 yr by mrnyc

There's one of those car vending machines at I-480/I-271 

^ how funny -- anybody ever buy a car from one of those things?

 

i didn't know carvana was around the area -- but upon closer inspection it looks like they are a lot of places and are a pretty big operation.

 

that's good, it should keep them in work at this site.

Big news:

 

https://www.morningjournal.com/2022/01/27/mayor-jack-bradley-u-s-navy-yard-could-locate-in-lorain/

 

An agreement to bring a U.S. Navy repair facility could open this year in Lorain if the White House approves the plan, said Lorain Mayor Jack Bradley.

 

If the project gets the nod from President Joe Biden, groundbreaking could begin in October and will add between 3,000 and 4,000 jobs to the city, Bradley told reporters Jan. 27 during a news conference on the Zoom platform.

Not just big news - that would be huge news. Even better if they locate at the former Republic Steel site, and clean up that are in the process. 

 

One thing that confuses me though, is the logistics of it. While I'm super excited and would love to see it, it doesn't make sense to me why the Navy would ship nuclear subs from the coasts on barges all the way here for repair just to have to ship them back. Then throw in that parts would be coming from a new facility all the way out in Lordstown and it makes even less sense. It seems like the whole thing is just built around politics.

hmm, lake erie seems too shallow for a sub repair plant?

 

but hey, ok -- great unexpected news.

 

and not just in jobs, which is huge, but in reviving lorain's long shipbuilding, or at least in this case repairing, business.

 

also, all that work they have been putting in to scrubbing up around downtown will pay off big time.

 

 

more:

https://www.cleveland19.com/2022/01/28/proposed-naval-facility-could-bring-thousands-jobs-lorain-county/

https://fox8.com/news/proposed-project-could-bring-naval-shipyard-to-lorain/

Welcome news for the Lordstown region too! Hopefully we'll see some spinoff business development/investment from these projects

here is something about the other four apparantly overburdened us navy repair yards -- lorain would be the fifth:

 

hawaii

puget sound

portsmouth

norfolk

 

 

Navy Issues Contracts in First Step Toward $8B to Rebuild Two Public Shipyards

 

By: Gidget Fuentes

November 11, 2021 4:40 PM

 

The Navy issued the first contracts to companies that will compete for about $8 billion worth of military construction projects at shipyards in Hawaii and Washington state, two of its four public shipyards long overdue for modernization that can support the fleet’s growing repair and maintenance backlog.

 

more:

https://news.usni.org/2021/11/11/navy-issues-contracts-in-first-step-toward-8b-to-rebuild-two-public-shipyards

 

 

Sailors and Puget Sound Naval Shipyard & Intermediate Maintenance Facility (PSNS & IMF) workers load a crash and salvage crane onto the flight deck of Nimitz-class nuclear aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson (CVN-70) on June 22, 2021. US Navy Photo

No doubt this is the best economic news our of Lorain county in memory.

 

https://www.bartlettmaritime.com/

 

Check out these employment figures of the other four Navy shipyards.  Leads me to believe 3-4k jobs could grow significantly over time.

 

I agree that on the surface this sounds politically motivated, but maybe they are after the underutilized skilled trade labor found in our part of the world.  They cite a shortage of skilled labor as one of the major problems the industry faces.

^ whoa that is huge employment potential.

 

not to mention spinoff.

 

better get that old commuter rail plan dusted off now! 👍

 

 

 

Edited January 28, 20223 yr by mrnyc

Anyone know where the Great Lakes Coast Guard fleet is repaired and maintained? Could that work be picked up by this shipyard in the future? 

mrnyc you question if Lake Erie is too shallow? If the Subs are transported here on barges then it doesn't matter what depth the lake is. Plus I assume any repairs will include a drydock so again, depth will not be a problem.

1 minute ago, cadmen said:

mrnyc you question if Lake Erie is too shallow? If the Subs are transported here on barges then it doesn't matter what depth the lake is. Plus I assume any repairs will include a drydock so again, depth will not be a problem.

 

 

yes, i see they aren't subbing it to the drydock! 😂

another thought:  bringing the subs to the interior for repair probably lessens their exposure to attack.

^ but makes ne ohio more vulnerable tho. 🤖

 

and i wonder about them hauling nuke material back and forth between lordstown and the dock ??

 

not just nuke, but the military uses all kinds of hazardous materials.

 

also, i wonder if the subs can be tested out in the lake while being repaired?

 

on the positive -- i imagine it will eventually be much more than just sub repair work too -- probably a variety of ship related repairs.

 

 

 

Edited January 28, 20223 yr by mrnyc

29 minutes ago, West153 said:

another thought:  bringing the subs to the interior for repair probably lessens their exposure to attack.

I had the same thought. For obvious reasons, Lake Erie is not a great location for the #1 repair dock, but it makes great strategic sense as a fifth location given we already have ones in Hawaii and the east and west coast.

 

Does anyone know--can submarines travel through the St. Lawrence Seaway in winter? Obviously there's ice buildup, but they're under the ice. Do the locks even work in winter?

 

 

45 minutes ago, West153 said:

No doubt this is the best economic news our of Lorain county in memory.

 

Thanks for posting these numbers, I would not at ALL have guessed how big an impact this may turn out to be. Great news.

 

In my wildest dreams, maybe a naval shipyard in Lake Erie resurrects plans to improve or widen the St. Lawrence Seaway. Wouldn't it be cool if the reeaal big barges could get in the Great Lakes?

19 minutes ago, mrnyc said:

^ but makes ne ohio more vulnerable tho. 🤖

 

and i wonder about them hauling nuke material back and forth between lordstown and the dock ??

 

not just nuke, but the military uses all kinds of hazardous materials.

 

also, i wonder if the subs can be tested out in the lake while being repaired?

 

on the positive -- i imagine it will eventually be much more than just sub repair work too -- probably a variety of ship related repairs.

 

 

 

 

Smaller surface ships such as destroyers, frigates, and littorials should be able to get down here.

it would be cool to see some of these ships all tested out in the lake.

 

can you imagine a sub popping up next to your fishing boat?

 

 

another downside is ... you can bet there will be hush hush movement of dangerous material between lordstown and lorain. out in the lake too.

 

i would imagine ohio government would have little say about that.

 

bit of a worry at times i would think  -- especially if you were weened on this liquid tv classic! 😵

 

 

34 minutes ago, mrnyc said:

^ but makes ne ohio more vulnerable tho. 🤖

 

 

I wouldn't lose any sleep over this. Unless the military aggression is coming from Canada, I think that if a war has made its way to Ohio we're in a pretty bad spot as a country, lol.

Just now, LlamaLawyer said:

I wouldn't lose any sleep over this. Unless the military aggression is coming from Canada, I think that if a war has made its way to Ohio we're in a pretty bad spot as a country, lol.

 

err, umm, if only a canadian mayfly invasion was how harm could come to a military target. 😲

I'm with other posters on the idea that this is probably happening because we have an underutilized skilled labor workforce & because an inland repair port has the potential to be more secure. But I have to be honest, it could also be a way to increase naval presence on the Great Lakes in case Canada ever gets too big for it's britches. Sometimes where there's smoke, there's fire, after all.

I'm not a big Biden guy, don't really wanna start that discussion and get the thread shut down. But for economic & security reasons, him signing off on this move would gain him a bit of respect from me. 

 https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-communist-chinese-troops-observed-military-exercises-on-canadian-soil

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-if-the-next-presidential-election-reveals-the-us-hurtling-toward/

Maybe we can get expanding the st lawrence seaway back on the menu.

17 minutes ago, ArtDecoSquirrel said:

I'm with other posters on the idea that this is probably happening because we have an underutilized skilled labor workforce & because an inland repair port has the potential to be more secure. But I have to be honest, it could also be a way to increase naval presence on the Great Lakes in case Canada ever gets too big for it's britches. Sometimes where there's smoke, there's fire, after all.

I'm not a big Biden guy, don't really wanna start that discussion and get the thread shut down. But for economic & security reasons, him signing off on this move would gain him a bit of respect from me. 

 https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-communist-chinese-troops-observed-military-exercises-on-canadian-soil

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-if-the-next-presidential-election-reveals-the-us-hurtling-toward/

 

 

hey, that's not very friendly boddy! *vvvvrrtt!*

 

Even if the Great Lakes are deep enough for submarines, the Welland Canal that links Lakes Erie and Ontario probably isn't. Having a naval yard on the Great Lakes probably provides a good savings in labor costs compared to the East and West Coasts, plus it's a more secure region being this far into the heartland.

 

Like others have said, this would be some of the biggest economic news in decades for Lorain if it comes through!

https://www.bartlettmaritime.com/

 

Jw, why does their site say full implementation of "the plan" would mean 41,000 jobs?🙃

 

Edited January 28, 20223 yr by West153

28 minutes ago, West153 said:

https://www.bartlettmaritime.com/

 

Jw, why does their site say full implementation of "the plan" would mean 41,000 jobs?🙃

 

There are four other shipyards. I have to imagine each of these is getting substantial investment. The jobs will probably be scattered across the U.S.

I agree. That was my thought as well, but then there is this pie chart showing that the Bartlett Corp is focused on two dry docks and a depot...

Edited January 28, 20223 yr by West153

2 hours ago, ArtDecoSquirrel said:

But I have to be honest, it could also be a way to increase naval presence on the Great Lakes in case Canada ever gets too big for it's britches. Sometimes where there's smoke, there's fire, after all.

 

Parody?

It would be great news and all if anything close to the proposal happens but l'll believe it when l see it. That being said, it's one thing to build a large repair facility but it's quite another to expect giant nuclear subs to navigate underwater in these parts. I'm pretty sure most of the St. Lawrence Seaway, the various locks and connecting bodies of water as well as the middle and western part of Lake Erie is too shallow for a modern US naval sub to operate underwater. 

 

So even if repair facilities are built in Lorain the only part of the lake deep enough to test things underwater is the eastern part of the lake. Because of that limitation l find it hard to believe Lorain will get the facility. I hope I'm wrong though.

well they did say big items like subs would come on barges. and there is no doubt plenty of work in smaller ships and parts repairs. meaning they take something apart in norfolk or pearl or whatever and send it to lordstown/lorain to fix it. something like that no doubt.

 

i do believe the gov wants a great lakes yard for an interior navy yard for a host of reasons as others have been saying. and those reasons are pretty sound i think. also, this region more than deserves a gov work kickstarter after the devestation it suffered with the loss of manufacturing. i mean why do other places always get all the big gov work and not ne ohio?

 

that said, yeah its lorain and lordstown and ne ohio, so show me the money — we’ll see if it happens, when it happens. 

So this is all exciting news but I see a few people expressing concern about the depth of the lake and canals. Might I remind folks that though submarines are faster underwater they are still quite capable of cruising on the surface, I'm just sayin'.

1 hour ago, Clvlndr in LV said:

So this is all exciting news but I see a few people expressing concern about the depth of the lake and canals. Might I remind folks that though submarines are faster underwater they are still quite capable of cruising on the surface, I'm just sayin'.

 

i thnk something big like that would be brought on a barge for repairs. maybe tested out in the lake a bit during repairs?

 

i expect canada to pitch a fit because … of course. i hope that doesnt derail anything though. we’ll see what happens.

 

 

Edited January 28, 20223 yr by mrnyc

2 hours ago, Clvlndr in LV said:

So this is all exciting news but I see a few people expressing concern about the depth of the lake and canals. Might I remind folks that though submarines are faster underwater they are still quite capable of cruising on the surface, I'm just sayin'.

 

People questioning the ability of the Great Lakes to accommodate a sub have never seen a Great Lake.

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

People questioning the ability of the Great Lakes to accommodate a sub have never seen a Great Lake.

Seriously though, the average depth of Lake Erie is only 60 feet and Virginia-class attack submarines are more than 30 feet in diameter, not counting the mast. I think it’s a legitimate question whether they’re too tall.

47 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said:

Seriously though, the average depth of Lake Erie is only 60 feet and Virginia-class attack submarines are more than 30 feet in diameter, not counting the mast. I think it’s a legitimate question whether they’re too tall.

 

But that average is affected by the shallow west end where you can walk a long way out from shore and still keep your head above water. All commercial shipping channels such as the Black River in Lorain are dredged to a depth of 24 feet as is the shipping lane out into the deeper parts of the lake. East of the islands, the lake is much deeper. Each line represents one meter of water depth in this chart from NOAA. https://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/greatlakes/erie.html

 

 

Of course parts of the middle of Lake Erie may be deep enough (just) and most of  eastern Lake Erie is plenty deep enough not to mention all of Lake Ontario is fine. I was referring to a couple of posts that wondered about the efficacy of the subs moving underwater along the route from the Atlantic. 

 

Plus, IF the subs need to use an underwater trial to test a repair then the depth immediately outside of the Lorain harbor may be problematic. That limited depth may be enough for the navy to say it's not a feasible location. I'm just speculating here but when you consider this would be a new facility in a shallow great lake...well those could be deal breakers. Just sayin'

BTW if the subs, resting on top of a barge can fit through the Seawsay locks and Welland Canal then they can make it to Lorain. If that is the case then at least we have the opening of a negotiation. 

Neat, I'd not heard of this development:

 

Handmade model ships highlight Lorain's first industry at The Shipyards event center

Carissa Woytach
The Chronicle-Telegram

Jul 02, 2020 6:00 AM

 

LORAIN — A longstanding part of the city’s shipbuilding industry is finding a second life as an event center.

 

The Shipyards’ grand opening is today. Formerly home to the American Shipbuilding Co. until the early 1980s, the space has traded its former industrial past for a taphouse, event center, cocktail lounge and coffee shop — but its owners are not letting history be forgotten.

 

Restoring the former American Shipyards building wouldn’t have been complete without upgrading the pattern model that has hung in the building for the past 70 years. Now, it is a model of the Arthur M. Anderson, a cargo ship famous for being the last ship in contact with the SS Edmund Fitzgerald before it sank in November 1975.

 

https://chroniclet.com/news/217260/handmade-model-ships-highlight-lorains-first-industry-at-the-shipyards-event-center/