April 15, 20241 yr ...and that building. Oy. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
April 15, 20241 yr 8 hours ago, jwulsin said: But doesn't the struggling retail suggest more residential is needed? ("Retail follows rooftops") I believe a large factor is that if someone wants to lease the space they have to do the full buildout of the space.
April 16, 20241 yr Yeah when I had stores I never wanted to do that. Landlords even offer monetary/contractor locating assistance for that but I still didn't want to do it. If I saw a gravel floor I noped out.
April 17, 20241 yr FWIW, they do provide a tenant allowance for the build-out of the spaces. I have been told that they increased the amount of that allowance, which IIRC was some time last year. Personally, I think it will be a domino effect. Once a solid restaurant takes the financial risk and is a hit, the rest should follow. That said, I do want to know what is stopping them from lowering the rents to get more interest. The persistent rumors that they are asking too much are becoming hard to ignore.
April 19, 20241 yr Has anyone heard any updates on the new MedPace building? Does not look like any activity and thought they were getting started Q1 this year.
April 19, 20241 yr 13 minutes ago, Cincy13 said: Has anyone heard any updates on the new MedPace building? Does not look like any activity and thought they were getting started Q1 this year. It’s pushed back a little. They are currently working on the clinical trial building which is behind the new tower. Once that’s completed the current people in the building that is going to be demolished for the tower will move into that building.
April 19, 20241 yr On 4/15/2024 at 8:14 AM, The_Cincinnati_Kid said: Ackermann Group, Madisonville Community Council feud over developments new and old By Brian Planalp – Staff reporter, Cincinnati Business Courier Apr 15, 2024 Updated Apr 15, 2024 9:52am EDT A Cincinnati developer and Madisonville community members are sparring over the best use of long-vacant land in the neighborhood’s business district. Ackermann Group is behind the largest transformation of the Madisonville neighborhood in decades, having developed the three mixed-use Madamore apartment buildings on the southwest, southeast and northeast corners Madison Road and Whetsel Avenue. The third Madamore building began leasing in October 2022. All tolled, the project brought 312 apartments and more than 45,000 square feet of commercial space. MORE The vote for the Sierra lot failed last night at the Community Council. I don't think anything particularly new was said, although I don't remember all that many people mention parking. They did confirm that they have a right of first refusal for the lot that should expire in June. It'll be interesting to see what the next steps will be with the parcel, one way or another. The reporter for the previous article was there so I would expect a follow-up soon.
May 4, 20241 yr On 3/6/2024 at 11:56 AM, Dev said: When this all went down last year, I was told that the blue stub west of Red Bank Road and Medpace Way has the legal name of Red Bank Drive. I haven't found any documentation supporting that though and Google Streetview shows that it used to have a sign stating that it was Red Bank Road. None of these streets have signs, including the intersection on Red Bank Expressway, which would make it a lot easier. I agree giving blue its own separate name would be best but it's going to get worse before it gets better. Medpace's developer is working on purchasing the L-shaped internal street, so we might have a public Medpace Way, north of Madison, and a private, L-shaped one on Medpace's campus. I do think that the city would want to keep that stub public, to provide primary access to the (old) Red Bank Road so maybe they clarify it then? Medpace's developer also did not want the city to place the bike staples on the campus, for being too ugly, so hopefully that shows they will create their own signage once the street becomes private. Funny update to this. On Monday, the budget committee is looking at a tax exemption for the next phase of Medpace's expansion. It of course refers to the little stub road as Medpace Way: Quote The Developer, with grants from the Ohio Department of Development and the Ohio Department of Transportation, as well as match funds from the City, will cause to be completed intersection improvements at Red Bank Expressway and Medpace Way. The attached FADA includes a site plan for the new traffic light that will be at this intersection: This new intersection will cost $555,000, with the city paying $200k. The new building 300 is estimated to cost $232,882,950, the new building across Hetzell will cost $30,500,000 and the parking garage will be $37,175,391. That comes out to a total of $301,113,341. I believe the Red Bank shared-use path will be over $1 million as well.
May 4, 20241 yr The FADA also included this overall site plan, which I don't think includes any new information other than the parking garage:
May 6, 20241 yr On 5/4/2024 at 6:39 PM, Dev said: On Monday, the budget committee is looking at a tax exemption for the next phase of Medpace's expansion. It of course refers to the little stub road as Medpace Way I'm not usually supportive of obstructionist techniques... but I say: "NO PUBLIC DOLLARS UNTIL THIS STREET NAME MESS IS FIXED!"
May 9, 20241 yr Medpace lands new incentives for expansion that's grown again to $327M in value By Chris Wetterich – Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier May 9, 2024 Medpace’s major, $327 million expansion of its Madisonville campus has landed a new round of incentives from the city of Cincinnati and the Port of Greater Cincinnati Development Authority. The contract clinical research firm plans to add 1,500 jobs, build a new office tower, clinical trial site and 1,300 spaces in two parking garage to accommodate growth and an increased demand for its services. The jobs will have an average salary of $60,000 annually. Cincinnati City Council approved two ordinances related to Medpace May 8 – a funding and development agreement and the creation of a project tax-increment financing district to help finance the project. The TIF, valued initially at $3.4 million annually, according to the city’s estimate, allows for the developer to put the property taxes it otherwise would have paid on improvements to the site back into the project. MORE
June 24, 2024Jun 24 Major new Medpace parking garage approved despite objections from neighbors The Cincinnati Planning Commission approved a massive new parking garage for Medpace’s headquarters at the site of a current surface lot, but not before nearby residents objected to its scale. The six-story, 1,389-space garage will be located at 5369 Medpace Way in Madisonville but will also front Covington and Stewart avenues where there are single-family homes and condominiums. The garage will include a canopy to deliver solar power. Commissioners voted unanimously in favor of the project, which is a part of Medpace’s planned development. The commission’s approval is needed for the final development plan for this particular parcel. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2024/06/24/new-medpace-parking-garage-madisonville-approved.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
June 25, 2024Jun 25 12 hours ago, ColDayMan said: Major new Medpace parking garage approved despite objections from neighbors The Cincinnati Planning Commission approved a massive new parking garage for Medpace’s headquarters at the site of a current surface lot, but not before nearby residents objected to its scale. The six-story, 1,389-space garage will be located at 5369 Medpace Way in Madisonville but will also front Covington and Stewart avenues where there are single-family homes and condominiums. The garage will include a canopy to deliver solar power. Commissioners voted unanimously in favor of the project, which is a part of Medpace’s planned development. The commission’s approval is needed for the final development plan for this particular parcel. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2024/06/24/new-medpace-parking-garage-madisonville-approved.html I always thought it was weird that the parking garage is only taking one section of that parking lot. I’m going to assume they are planning on developing that lot. If I remember correctly they were wanting to put apartments with a parking garage.
June 25, 2024Jun 25 While it has come to be the norm over the past several decades for these kind of large office projects to get built outside of a downtown area, isn't that one of the things that makes downtowns better appealing to these mega office projects. Downtowns are better equipped to deal with the size of large office projects. Instead, they build in these areas where they add traffic and people to neighborhoods that were built for homes and small to mid-sized businesses. Not mega projects. Is there a reason why they couldn't build in the central business district? With uptown being a major business center, that would also make sense. A large sign plastered on a skyscraper downtown would also make more sense.
June 25, 2024Jun 25 9 hours ago, seanian said: While it has come to be the norm over the past several decades for these kind of large office projects to get built outside of a downtown area, isn't that one of the things that makes downtowns better appealing to these mega office projects. Downtowns are better equipped to deal with the size of large office projects. Instead, they build in these areas where they add traffic and people to neighborhoods that were built for homes and small to mid-sized businesses. Not mega projects. Is there a reason why they couldn't build in the central business district? With uptown being a major business center, that would also make sense. A large sign plastered on a skyscraper downtown would also make more sense. I agree for the most part but I don't know if the company understood how much they would grow and that would be hard to accumulate the land / space needed for a quick growing company. Now if they knew then what we know with the glut of office space in downtown that could have been a different convo, but I think this campus is pretty unique in what they do. In a perfect world, completely agree, but at least they are still in the city.
July 16, 2024Jul 16 On 1/8/2024 at 12:08 AM, Ucgrad2015 said: Retail listing is up for the new strip mall that will be across from Madison Bowl and Istorage. https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/4710-Madison-Rd-Cincinnati-OH/27995729/ This appears to finally be moving forward. There has been a lot of land clearance at the site, although it does not appear that they have gotten their building permit approved yet. The activity online states that their permit filed on May 2nd was denied by planning with the following reason (among others): Quote Note that the drive-thru restaurant building on the front parcel is not part of this permit and would need a separate permit. So to that end, they are coming to the community council on Thursday night to ask for a Letter of Support for a zone change from Manufacturing General to Commercial General - Auto. They are stating that they want the zone change so they can put in a daycare, but it's notable that it this change would also allow them to put in a drive-through. I find the request confusing as the owner, Morelia Group, already has a daycare up the street across from MadTree. Finally, IIRC they pulled this with their latest development, on the other side of the rail line. They told OCC that the only drive-through they were going to install was the Swenson's, and then they also installed a Starbuck's after they got the zoning changed to CG-A.
July 18, 2024Jul 18 Couple of renderings of the suburban retail development. The stand alone restaurant says First Egg aka First Watch. Wish they would move the orientation of the buildings to make it look a little more dense.
July 18, 2024Jul 18 45 minutes ago, Ucgrad2015 said: Couple of renderings of the suburban retail development. The stand alone restaurant says First Egg aka First Watch. Wish they would move the orientation of the buildings to make it look a little more dense. When looking at the size of those buildings and compare it to how much parking there is for this development, it just doesn't balance. Looks like a bit of overkill for parking spaces. Actually, a lot of overkill. I don't see any mega retail or office structure to justify this much parking space. It just looks like a basic strip mall.
July 18, 2024Jul 18 2 hours ago, seanian said: When looking at the size of those buildings and compare it to how much parking there is for this development, it just doesn't balance. Looks like a bit of overkill for parking spaces. Actually, a lot of overkill. I don't see any mega retail or office structure to justify this much parking space. It just looks like a basic strip mall. Unfortunately this is the American way. 15 parking spots per person minimum!
August 29, 2024Aug 29 Tower crane installed this week. "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
August 30, 2024Aug 30 8 hours ago, 646empire said: Medpace? Yes. I drive past it everyday. I’ll try to snap a photo. Not sure if you can see it from 71 or not.
September 5, 2024Sep 5 I saw it today for the first time but didn't think to take a pic. My In-laws who live on Adelphi talk about the anti garage signs all the time.
September 9, 2024Sep 9 https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2024/09/09/ackermann-onsite-retail-madamore-madisonville.html About time they changed up the strategy here. It’s been like 4 years and they have almost no commercial tenants. I heard the developers were trying to charge prime OTR prices which is just ridiculous. Article said that the apartments are 93% leased so they really shouldn’t have an issue filling commercial space if they are more reasonable with their valuation of their property.
November 5, 2024Nov 5 A few things: Medpace is going back to planning commission for the garage because they have changed the design a bit. They are going to use the existing retaining walls as part of the structure. This will cause it to be further away from Covington Avenue but closer to Stewart. They stated that to shift and redo them could threaten the integrity of the road. The Port's contractors have been doing work on the old Model Laundry site, including some work under Erie. All remediation is expected to be completed by June 30th. The Port has not stated what is next although IIRC the federal grant they got for remediation required public engagement for future use. BJ Kim, owner of Red Sesame, has listed his space on Whetsel for rent. My dream scenario here is that Bee's BBQ moves in there. MCURC has also listed the Metz House for sale. Presumably it would only be useful as some kind of office so it'll be interesting to see who picks it up. On the other side of the bridge, that old red brick building is listed for sale, along with the adjacent parcels on the block. At almost three quarters of an acre, it's a fairly large collection of property. The garage across the street is also for sale, which is over a third of an acre. The prices are probably too high but it seems like a large enough size of property to attract some interest. Tomorrow at City Council, they will be voting on an ordinance to spend $500k from the TIF for traffic calming on 10 streets throughout the neighborhood. These are 'minor' streets although they are also a lot of the streets that could see higher traffic flows when Madison Road gets a road diet.
November 5, 2024Nov 5 50 minutes ago, Dev said: A few things: Medpace is going back to planning commission for the garage because they have changed the design a bit. They are going to use the existing retaining walls as part of the structure. This will cause it to be further away from Covington Avenue but closer to Stewart. They stated that to shift and redo them could threaten the integrity of the road. The Port's contractors have been doing work on the old Model Laundry site, including some work under Erie. All remediation is expected to be completed by June 30th. The Port has not stated what is next although IIRC the federal grant they got for remediation required public engagement for future use. BJ Kim, owner of Red Sesame, has listed his space on Whetsel for rent. My dream scenario here is that Bee's BBQ moves in there. MCURC has also listed the Metz House for sale. Presumably it would only be useful as some kind of office so it'll be interesting to see who picks it up. On the other side of the bridge, that old red brick building is listed for sale, along with the adjacent parcels on the block. At almost three quarters of an acre, it's a fairly large collection of property. The garage across the street is also for sale, which is over a third of an acre. The prices are probably too high but it seems like a large enough size of property to attract some interest. Tomorrow at City Council, they will be voting on an ordinance to spend $500k from the TIF for traffic calming on 10 streets throughout the neighborhood. These are 'minor' streets although they are also a lot of the streets that could see higher traffic flows when Madison Road gets a road diet. Lol I forgot the really big real estate news: the auditor's website shows that Allez Bakery have finally closed on 6012 Madison. They are probably still far away from opening but it's great that they will be able to fully move forward. On that same block, Fasser, a black-owned bar, opened up. It seems that it is pretty succesful given the utilization of on-street parking, something that has been shocking to see. I would say the bar is a step up from a dive-bar, with a solid liquor lineup, so it's not remotely overpriced. They also have an air fryer for food. Across the street at 6011 Madison, the apartments above the Dance Factory are for lease. Each are 2 bedrooms with either 1 or 2 baths. Prices range from $1,850 to $2,200.
February 6Feb 6 Developer wraps up new $11M townhome project in Madisonville By Lara Schwartz – Staff reporter, Cincinnati Business Courier Feb 6, 2025 A local developer is putting the final touches on a new $11 million townhome development in Madisonville. Vance Homes, a subsidiary of CanDarr Properties, is finishing up its newest 20 home condo/townhome development, Butterfield Crest, located on Butterfield Place in Madisonville. The homes, each with a 15-year LEED Gold tax abatement, have officially hit the market and are starting at $499,000. Vance Homes expects the entire development to be complete by the end of March. MORE
February 6Feb 6 ^Interesting to note that these townhouses are directly adjacent to a subdivision on Butterfield Place that was built around 2005, with the typical suburban layout: single family homes with frontloaded garage. That 3.1 acre subdivision has 11 houses (~0.28 acres/unit). This new townhouse project sits on 1.06 acres and gets 20 units (0.053 acres/unit). The townhomes are roughly 5x as dense (not accounting for bedrooms or sq footage per unit). I believe higher density projects like this will be good for neighborhoods like Madisonville. This will make for a very interesting case study since there's a direct comparison (albeit 20 years older) literally next door. I'm curious how prices will compare in the coming years, for say a 3-bedroom unit in the townhouse vs a 3-bedroom single family home with more yard. Here's a listing for a 3-bedroom unit in the development (listing price feels high to me): https://ashleyvance.e-merge.com/for-sale/4480-butterfield-pl-cincinnati-oh-45227/10451-159427 4503 Butterfield is a 3-bedroom single-family home that sold in 2024 for $445k: https://wedge.hcauditor.org/view/re/0360001028800/2024/summary Even though the townhouse listing price seems high, I suspect it will sell for more than the next door house at 4503 Butterfield. The tougher question is what happens to prices in 15 years when the townhouses are past their tax abatement and not able to market themselves as new construction. Even if the townhouse prices drop below their adjacent single-family counterparts, I doubt they'll ever drop to 1/5th the value. In other words, I suspect the value/acre of these townhouses will be significantly higher over the long-term. Edited February 6Feb 6 by jwulsin
February 6Feb 6 3 hours ago, jwulsin said: Even though the townhouse listing price seems high, I suspect it will sell for more than the next door house at 4503 Butterfield. I believe the developer is working with a real estate agent that is notorious for always pushing her clients to be at the top, or even above, the going market rate. Some residents think this is a big issue, not only because of the implication that people are intentionally pricing the market up, but it feels like other people are asking way too much on vacant properties, reducing opportunities. Zillow currently calculates the average home value in Madisonville of $234,173, with a median list price of $321,333, so yeah this is way above that. I also find it frustrating that the new townhomes don't list their square footage because they do seem larger but I can't tell what the price per square foot is. The existing homes are so close together, that if they were attached, they'd probably have room for a 2-car garage or another bathroom, which is what the townhomes generally have. IF it feels like they are so close together that they have none of the advantages of attached housing, with all the disadvantages of detached housing. The existing homes were actually built by a non-profit, Students Concerned About Today & Tomorrow (SCATT). Of the members who I know, they are very proud that they were able to build "affordable" hosing in Madisonville, (was $180k in 2005 affordable?) and weaponize that fact when developers today say they can't, completely unaware that the banking and construction industries have gone through a lot of changes since 2005.
February 6Feb 6 1 hour ago, Dev said: The existing homes are so close together, that if they were attached, they'd probably have room for a 2-car garage or another bathroom, which is what the townhomes generally have. IF it feels like they are so close together that they have none of the advantages of attached housing, with all the disadvantages of detached housing. Most of the single-family homes do have 2-car garages. I think only the one at the end (4503 Butterfield) has a single-car garage because it is on a smaller plot than the others. But I totally agree with your broader point.
February 17Feb 17 In an email newsletter, Churchill's Fine Teas have announced that they are moving into the Alto Design space at the end of Madison Road. Their location in Hyde Park will close in April with the new space expected by summer.
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