October 18, 20168 yr They seem to be expanding into Cincinnati the same way that Five Guys did a few years ago -- by opening a bunch of locations all at once in all parts of the metro area. It didn't work out so well for Five Guys.
October 18, 20168 yr McDonald's tried to pull that trick when they owned Donato's. They carpet-bombed Atlanta with 30 Donato's locations and it didn't work at all.
October 18, 20168 yr Freddy's seems to be a mixture of Steak n Shake (steakburgers, shoestring fries, and 50's decor) and Culver's or Shake Shack (frozen custard and counter ordering).
October 18, 20168 yr Was a final design approved for that road segment? Here's the most recent rendering I could find and it still said "preliminary", from a <a href="http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/03/01/exclusive-east-side-road-plans-blow-through.html">March 9th article from the Business Courier</a>. I don't know if that became the final design or if it has been modified since March. Based on the site work currently underway, that picture is the final plan.
October 18, 20168 yr I still can't believe the city and state will spend like $7M to save people one traffic light. I get that the Medpace people are leveraging a larger development, but I don't understand how this road really brings $7M of utility to its employees. (Also, not to be pendantic, but the Taco Bell and Freddie's are in Fairfax, not Madisonville.)
October 18, 20168 yr Was a final design approved for that road segment? Here's the most recent rendering I could find and it still said "preliminary", from a <a href="http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/03/01/exclusive-east-side-road-plans-blow-through.html">March 9th article from the Business Courier</a>. I don't know if that became the final design or if it has been modified since March. This is such a waste of money.
October 18, 20168 yr Agreed. It would be one thing if it created a block shape that would eventually be developable between the lights, but will be a very oddly shaped piece of land that if I remember right is woods and part of duck Creek? Or is it a drainage ditch I can't remember...
October 18, 20168 yr You can thank the school for the road being the shape it is. The plan was originally supposed to be something more resembling a right angle for the streeet, and a new retail center was going to be built on the corner. The school used every excuse they could think of to say why that would be such a devastating thing for their students. Real arguments I heard at school meetings at JPP Elementary: - UDF is going to move to the retail center, and they sell beer and cigarettes, and it'd be bad to have a place like that near the children. - The road cuts through the school's pumpkin patch, and the unused lawn is in fact used all the time and is apparently integral to the success of the students. - Some of these kids live in apartments and therefore don't have lawns at home, so removing the lack lawn of the school would be extra terrible. I could go on, but basically every argument they made was ludicrous. CPS officials should have stepped in and made a deal with MedPace to get some sort of partnership for the school, since they were the party pushing for the road in the first place. CPS could have also sold the real estate to a developer to develop the little retail strip, which I'm sure would have been a fairly considerable influx of cash for the district. Instead they chose to back the ludicrous claims made by the JPP teachers and parents, so we end up with a half-assed project that benefits no one except MedPace.
October 19, 20168 yr ^^Medpace "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
October 19, 20168 yr You can thank the school for the road being the shape it is. The plan was originally supposed to be something more resembling a right angle for the streeet, and a new retail center was going to be built on the corner. The school used every excuse they could think of to say why that would be such a devastating thing for their students. Real arguments I heard at school meetings at JPP Elementary: - UDF is going to move to the retail center, and they sell beer and cigarettes, and it'd be bad to have a place like that near the children. - The road cuts through the school's pumpkin patch, and the unused lawn is in fact used all the time and is apparently integral to the success of the students. - Some of these kids live in apartments and therefore don't have lawns at home, so removing the lack lawn of the school would be extra terrible. I could go on, but basically every argument they made was ludicrous. CPS officials should have stepped in and made a deal with MedPace to get some sort of partnership for the school, since they were the party pushing for the road in the first place. CPS could have also sold the real estate to a developer to develop the little retail strip, which I'm sure would have been a fairly considerable influx of cash for the district. Instead they chose to back the ludicrous claims made by the JPP teachers and parents, so we end up with a half-assed project that benefits no one except MedPace. I'm pretty sure there are strict rules on what CPS can do with their properties, and that they can't just sell it to the highest bidder or developer. Regardless, this project should have simply been killed. This will have little to no effect reducing traffic congestion there. I actually think it is likely to increase it. What causes traffic problems in the area in the first place is the fact that there is essentially no alternate routes to take. You can basically just go on Red Bank Expressway and Madison Road. The first point anyone can get off those main roads and onto another route is Stewart. They should have just reconnected old Red Bank Road both from Madison to Duck Creek and, more importantly, in the area next to MedPace. That way people could leave MedPace without having to even get through that intersection. It would have had the additional benefit of having to move that UDF, which I realize is in a prominent location but is a problem for all the people who are entering and exiting the gas station right at that interseciton.
October 19, 20168 yr Corner gas stations almost don't work anywhere these days since there's so much volume that backs up the car storage areas of intersections immediately once the light turns red. Four-phase signals leave cars in storage for a very long time.
October 19, 20168 yr I'm pretty sure there are strict rules on what CPS can do with their properties, and that they can't just sell it to the highest bidder or developer. Regardless, this project should have simply been killed. This will have little to no effect reducing traffic congestion there. I actually think it is likely to increase it. What causes traffic problems in the area in the first place is the fact that there is essentially no alternate routes to take. You can basically just go on Red Bank Expressway and Madison Road. The first point anyone can get off those main roads and onto another route is Stewart. They should have just reconnected old Red Bank Road both from Madison to Duck Creek and, more importantly, in the area next to MedPace. That way people could leave MedPace without having to even get through that intersection. It would have had the additional benefit of having to move that UDF, which I realize is in a prominent location but is a problem for all the people who are entering and exiting the gas station right at that interseciton. I mostly agree, but the fact that Duck Creek ends where it does means that all of those employees from 5/3, Coca Cola, plus whatever traffic is generated by Paideia and 7 Hills has to get on Red Bank to get to most places. Also, it allows people coming from 71 South to exit at Ridge and take Duck Creek all the way to MedPace and beyond without having to go through the Red Bank/Madison interchange. I agree that there aren't many alternate routes in this area, and that's primarily the reason for the backup, but I think another issue that's as significant is the fact that the Red Bank 71 exit receives a TON of traffic, because it serves as the closest 71 exit for most of the east side communities. Try getting off the freeway between 3:30 and 6:30, and you'll see how terribly backed up this area is. Red Bank and Madison is a real pinch point, so giving another option to bypass it seems like a good idea, at least in theory. It's under construction now, so I guess we'll see.
October 19, 20168 yr I mostly agree, but the fact that Duck Creek ends where it does means that all of those employees from 5/3, Coca Cola, plus whatever traffic is generated by Paideia and 7 Hills has to get on Red Bank to get to most places. Also, it allows people coming from 71 South to exit at Ridge and take Duck Creek all the way to MedPace and beyond without having to go through the Red Bank/Madison interchange. I agree that there aren't many alternate routes in this area, and that's primarily the reason for the backup, but I think another issue that's as significant is the fact that the Red Bank 71 exit receives a TON of traffic, because it serves as the closest 71 exit for most of the east side communities. Try getting off the freeway between 3:30 and 6:30, and you'll see how terribly backed up this area is. Red Bank and Madison is a real pinch point, so giving another option to bypass it seems like a good idea, at least in theory. It's under construction now, so I guess we'll see. Trust me, I'm traveling through those intersections at those times. You're right, the back-ups are basically going to happen, given the topography. My problem with this "fix" is that it doesn't really do anything. You avoid the Madison & Red Bank Expressway intersection but still have to go through the Duck Creek and Red Bank Expressway intersection. In my opinion, if they just re-connected Old Red Bank, it would do a similar thing but cheaper. There's really no fix that's going to get MedPace people who are trying to get onto 71 without going through that bottleneck. But if you reconnected Red Bank Road so that the Med Pace people going south go avoid Red Bank Expressway til they got to Brotherton, you'd at least be adding a route that would people off of Red Bank Expressway for a bit. It would certainly have cost less than $7 million.
October 19, 20168 yr They should have just reconnected old Red Bank Road both from Madison to Duck Creek and, more importantly, in the area next to MedPace. That way people could leave MedPace without having to even get through that intersection. It would have had the additional benefit of having to move that UDF, which I realize is in a prominent location but is a problem for all the people who are entering and exiting the gas station right at that interseciton. I agree that this project simply should have been killed. Not enough public benefit to justify the costs. I'm not sure I understand your counter-proposal. Are you suggesting adding the old Red Bank Road to the intersection with Madison and Red Bank Expresway, creating a 6-way intersection? That sounds like a mess to me, but maybe I'm not understanding your idea.
October 19, 20168 yr This is going to end up like a super-sized version of the MLK/Vine/Jefferson intersection. If bet if you are heading south on Red Bank, you won't be able to turn left onto Madison. You will have to turn left onto the Duck Creek Connector and then left onto Madison. Same thing turning right from Madison to Red Bank.
October 19, 20168 yr I agree that this project simply should have been killed. Not enough public benefit to justify the costs. I'm not sure I understand your counter-proposal. Are you suggesting adding the old Red Bank Road to the intersection with Madison and Red Bank Expresway, creating a 6-way intersection? That sounds like a mess to me, but maybe I'm not understanding your idea. I'm talking about the part of Red Bank Road (old Red Bank) that is south-southeast of the MedPace building. It's not a solution to the problem, it's just designed to give the MedPace people who are going south or south east an alternate route, even if just for a bit. Would have cost a lot less than $7 million. But anyone going north onto the highway is going to stuck regardless because of the design of the the highway access ramp.
October 19, 20168 yr PAlexander[/member] - we had a discussion about these ideas on this thread back in March: It seems silly for the City to finance the construction of the Duck Creek Connector. If Medpace needs to improve access to their site, there are other steps that can be taken that would have much bigger benefit to the city. In the <a href="http://easterncorridor.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Red-Bank-Corridor-Preferred-Alternative-Implementation-Plan-12-21-13.pdf">Easter Corridor plan</a> (page 10), there are two elements that I actually like (most of the rest ought to be scrapped): Extension of Hetzel St Re-building of Old Red Bank Rd bridge over the rail road tracks Together, those two projects would do much more to alleviate traffic pressure at Madison. Additionally, the City could add a signal (and a crosswalk) at the <a href="https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1602292,-84.4044701,3a,75y,190.48h,85.93t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7g4Yy89eLaloL_NBLL5tpQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656">intersection of Red Bank Drive (road name confusion!!!) and Red Bank Expressway</a>. In the <a href="http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/planning/about-city-planning/city-planning-commission/dec-4-2015-packet/">Dec 4, 2015 Planning Commission Packet</a>, there was a schematic (page 65) showing how Hetzel St might be extended. The City would be much better off spending their money on projects that would help connect the <a href="http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/12/01/developer-advances-plan-to-build-apartments.html">RED development on the west side of Red Bank</a> with Medpace. Building the "Duck Creek Connector" would not actually connect anything... and worse, it would render a huge parcel of land (northeast corner of Madison/Red Bank) unusable for future development.
October 19, 20168 yr I think there was a lot of opposition from the people living on Tompkins Avenue to reopening the railroad overpass.
October 20, 20168 yr PAlexander[/member] - we had a discussion about these ideas on this thread back in March: It seems silly for the City to finance the construction of the Duck Creek Connector. If Medpace needs to improve access to their site, there are other steps that can be taken that would have much bigger benefit to the city. In the <a href="http://easterncorridor.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Red-Bank-Corridor-Preferred-Alternative-Implementation-Plan-12-21-13.pdf">Easter Corridor plan</a> (page 10), there are two elements that I actually like (most of the rest ought to be scrapped): Extension of Hetzel St Re-building of Old Red Bank Rd bridge over the rail road tracks Together, those two projects would do much more to alleviate traffic pressure at Madison. Additionally, the City could add a signal (and a crosswalk) at the <a href="https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1602292,-84.4044701,3a,75y,190.48h,85.93t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7g4Yy89eLaloL_NBLL5tpQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656">intersection of Red Bank Drive (road name confusion!!!) and Red Bank Expressway</a>. In the <a href="http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/planning/about-city-planning/city-planning-commission/dec-4-2015-packet/">Dec 4, 2015 Planning Commission Packet</a>, there was a schematic (page 65) showing how Hetzel St might be extended. The City would be much better off spending their money on projects that would help connect the <a href="http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/12/01/developer-advances-plan-to-build-apartments.html">RED development on the west side of Red Bank</a> with Medpace. Building the "Duck Creek Connector" would not actually connect anything... and worse, it would render a huge parcel of land (northeast corner of Madison/Red Bank) unusable for future development. I only knew about Old Red Bank because I remember when it used to connect. I didn't even know about Hetzel street. Yeah, your plan is far superior to what they are actually doing.
March 22, 20178 yr Cincinnati’s 1st Dolce Hotel tops out, gets a new name The $80 million Dolce Hotel in Madisonville topped out Tuesday and it has a new name. The Summit Hotel, as the project is now called, is a 239-room hotel with 34,500 square feet of indoor and outdoor meeting space including nearly 11,000 square feet of terrace and gardens. The hotel is being built as part of, and on top of, the former Medpace parking garage, which itself was formerly a NuTone factory. More below: http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/03/22/cincinnati-s-1st-dolce-hotel-tops-out-gets-a-new.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
April 27, 20178 yr Crane Watch: $355 million in development making Madisonville 'even more desirable' Private investment is flowing into the Cincinnati neighborhood of Madisonville to the tune of more than $355 million. That’s the total investment amount of projects either under construction or proposed for the neighborhood. We’ve added five Madisonville projects to the Crane Watch map. Sara Sheets, executive director of Madisonville Community Urban Redevelopment Corp., said she isn’t surprised by the investment coming to the community because she lives there. “Madisonville is going through an incredible period of rebirth,” Sheets told me. “The secret is finally out that this is a great place to live.” More below: http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/04/27/crane-watch-355-million-in-development-making.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
May 6, 20178 yr Madisonville’s upscale apartments will be ‘unlike any’ in Cincinnati It’s been a long time in the making, but work is now well underway on a 275-unit apartment community in Madisonville. More below: http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/05/05/madisonville-s-upscale-apartments-will-be-unlike.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
May 30, 20178 yr Madisonville Medpace project is getting bigger Fast-growing drug-trial company Medpace is expanding plans for its new Madisonville headquarters building, adding up to 50 percent more office space. The number of apartments planned for Medpace Madison Square is holding steady at 350, but the offices, apartments and dining areas will all be in separate buildings now instead of one, according to new plans filed with Cincinnati's planning department. "From a neighborhood perspective, what’s good about the Medpace development is that it offers a lot of jobs, but more important a range of jobs" for people from high school graduates to those with doctorate degrees, said Luke Brockmeier, Madisonville Community Council president. Cont "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
June 8, 20178 yr Summit Hotel brings new all-inclusive concept to Madisonville The Summit Hotel, a Dolce Hotel property, is an $80 million, 239-room luxury hotel being constructed in Madisonville. More below: http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/06/08/summit-hotel-brings-new-all-inclusive-concept-to.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
June 9, 20178 yr Madisonville’s upscale apartments will be ‘unlike any’ in Cincinnati It’s been a long time in the making, but work is now well underway on a 275-unit apartment community in Madisonville. More below: http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/05/05/madisonville-s-upscale-apartments-will-be-unlike.html Seagulls! :laugh:
June 9, 20178 yr Summit Hotel brings new all-inclusive concept to Madisonville The Summit Hotel, a Dolce Hotel property, is an $80 million, 239-room luxury hotel being constructed in Madisonville. More below: http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/06/08/summit-hotel-brings-new-all-inclusive-concept-to.html Here's a bit more detail on the "all-inclusive" concept: “When a customer pays a room rate, they get their breakfast, their lunch and their dinner all included,” D’Amico said. The idea of forcing everybody to pay for all three meals seems weird in this context. If people are traveling for business, they may well want to eat one or more meals elsewhere. If they're travelling for a wedding, they'll be getting at least some of their meals as part of the wedding, in which case they're "wasting" the included meals at the hotel. Just seems strange. It would be nice as an optional add-on (if you know you want to eat all your meals at the hotel), but if it's required for all guests, it seems misguided.
June 9, 20178 yr The idea of forcing everybody to pay for all three meals seems weird in this context. If people are traveling for business, they may well want to eat one or more meals elsewhere. If they're travelling for a wedding, they'll be getting at least some of their meals as part of the wedding, in which case they're "wasting" the included meals at the hotel. Just seems strange. It would be nice as an optional add-on (if you know you want to eat all your meals at the hotel), but if it's required for all guests, it seems misguided. This passes the cost of meals from the convention host to the attendee, keeping costs down for the host and making it an attractive convention hotel. I attend small conferences that would be a good fit for this hotel so it makes sense to me. My room might cost a little more but it is a business expense anyway! Also, I have a friend who owns a couple of hotels that are lower-end but offer free breakfast because that's what those type of hotels have to do. It drives him nuts that full-service hotels don't have to offer free breakfast so this could be a trend moving forward.
June 9, 20178 yr I've always found it strange that discount hotels include a free breakfast yet business travel oriented hotels don't. What it comes down to is that they can charge business travelers for breakfast since usually that just gets passed on to their employer anyway -- sometimes the charge is stupidly high, like $13/day for the breakfast buffet at a Marriott Courtyard or Hilton Garden Inn. I know a lot of business travelers eat dinner at their hotels most nights so this might actually be quite convenient for them. Personally, when I'm in a new city for business, I can't wait to go try interesting local restaurants for dinner, so this idea doesn't really appeal to me.
June 26, 20177 yr Medpace building gets planning commission OK A nearly 22,000-square-foot logistics building to be used by Medpace in Madisonville received the Cincinnati Planning Commission’s approval on Friday. The warehouse and office space will be on 1.2 acres at 5425 Hetzel St., in the southwest corner of Armada Place and Hetzel Street. More below: http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/06/26/medpace-building-gets-planning-commission-ok.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
September 11, 20177 yr Lots of work going on at 4725 Madison Road, the old BBQ Revue adjacent to Madison Bowl. They are grading the land and putting up a retaining wall. According to CAGIS EZ-Trak permits the new construction will be a 3-story self storage building.
September 28, 20177 yr Lots of work going on at 4725 Madison Road, the old BBQ Revue adjacent to Madison Bowl. They are grading the land and putting up a retaining wall. According to CAGIS EZ-Trak permits the new construction will be a 3-story self storage building. And here's an article about it: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/09/28/three-story-self-storage-facility-coming-to.html
November 22, 20177 yr $12.5 million hotel opens in Madisonville A four-story, 93-room Holiday Inn Express & Suites hotel has opened in Madisonville. The hotel, developed by Crestpoint Cos., officially opened on Nov. 16. Holiday Inn Express & Suites, located at 5311 Hetzel St., is scheduled to hold a grand opening on Dec. 7 from 5 to 8 p.m. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/11/22/12-5-million-hotel-opens-in-madisonville.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
November 23, 20177 yr Does anyone know when the other mid-rise buildings at that site will start being built?
November 23, 20177 yr Does anyone know when the other mid-rise buildings at that site will start being built? Heard from a friend at work that the plans for the site are being finalized. They are currently building a spec type building behind medpace and he said that it should start construction after that is finished, I have noticed over the past two weeks that they have been moving dirt on the site.
January 10, 20187 yr Skanska lands $100 million construction contract in Cincinnati The Cincinnati office of Skanska has signed a construction contract for a mixed-use project worth $100 million. Skanska signed a contract with RBM Development to manage the construction of a new mixed-use development in Madisonville. The project, which is now called Madison Square, is the second phase in the redevelopment of the former NuTone manufacturing site at the southeast corner of Red Bank Expressway and Madison Road. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/01/10/skanska-lands-100-million-construction-contract-in.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
January 10, 20187 yr Yes that is huge are they taking out the UDF there then on the corner? Looks like it to me but I may be turned around, to me that looks like the corner of Red Bank and Madison
January 10, 20187 yr ^ Nope, it's there on the bottom right corner. It's great that this huge development is going forward, and I hope it will have a positive effect on the rest of Madisonville, which could really use the help. Much of Madisonville looks like a rural Appalachian community instead of a city neighborhood. It needs some serious investment and new construction.
January 10, 20187 yr ^OK i see it now, I thought those were some architectural shades or something! I agree, Maddyville needs a lot of investment, hopefully the plan to re-do their "downtown" on Madison eventually moves forward.
January 11, 20187 yr Apparently Medpace tried to buy the UDF but the owners would not take any offers for it. Medpace even said they would relocate them Across the street where the new duck creek connector is. As for downtown Madisonville, the financing for that project on the corner of Madison and Whetsel has been finalized and the developer is hoping to start construction on the first phase in the summer.
January 11, 20187 yr ^ That’s amazing to hear, an honestly quite surprising to me. I drove through Madisonville a few times when I was back in Cincinnati for Christmas, and I thought it looked really rough. Development at that corner would be a game changer!
January 11, 20187 yr There's probably hidden money in the UDF. There's always money in the banana stand
January 11, 20187 yr ^ That’s amazing to hear, an honestly quite surprising to me. I drove through Madisonville a few times when I was back in Cincinnati for Christmas, and I thought it looked really rough. Development at that corner would be a game changer! I used to drive through Madisonville quite a bit and still do time to time. It actually has gotten quite a bit better on the business strip, certain buildings were already re-habbed and new businesses moving in. But that said, it needs a ton of work still, but hopefully with the funding in place and construction starting soon as UCGrad2015 mentioned, this should get the attention of other entrepreneuers to head towards Madisonville and invest.
January 12, 20187 yr The neighborhood center at Madison and Whetsel could really shine if they just built up the three empty corners (the strip mall really needs to go or be redeveloped in some way) to address the street). The trajectory does seem to be going in the right direction, but I fear that all this new automobile-centric stuff going on along Red Bank will just cause more of a flood of cars down Madison and choke off the good that's been done so far in bringing that corridor back. It's an odd 50'-wide roadway with some confusing lane changes that could be nicely traffic calmed, but I bet the pressure will be in the opposite direction.
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