June 17, 20204 yr Looking at Madisonville community council meetings. Red Sesame looks to be renovating 4804 Whetsel into a restaurant. Will be a good location (interesting layout) and interesting to see a duplex turned into a restaurant.
June 17, 20204 yr Red Sesame - I think that building was a quadplex or higher. The Auditor's website still has the old zoning listed for the property and not the form based code. It is listed as 401 - APARTMENT, 4 - 19 UNITS. I think single family zoning in Cincinnati covers duplexes and triplexes but not quadplexes. He also bought it almost 5 years ago, and I think it has been vacant since. The plans for the restaurant are interesting because there is no parking and an outdoor kitchen area. You can also notice that it has a 2-story unit and one efficiency. That implies to me that he wants to live above the restaurant and turn the extra space into an Airbnb or other short-term rental. The Jameson - The landscaping plan looks really good. It hopefully will allow the property to really stand out, especially considering the rather uniformity of the actual units. For an added bonus, the landscaping was designed by a local resident and is almost exclusively natives. They wanted to name it "The James" for the namesake of Madisonville, James Madison, but the name was already taken so they just put a spin on it. All the layouts have whiskey and scotch inspired names.
June 17, 20204 yr 10 minutes ago, Dev said: The Auditor's website still has the old zoning listed for the property and not the form based code. It is listed as 401 - APARTMENT, 4 - 19 UNITS. That's not really a zoning designation. Generally the Auditor and CAGIS property reports show not zoning but existing land use. Yes you can turn on the zoning overlay on the CAGIS website, but you could have a grandfathered 2-family in an SF-6 (single-family) zoning district, and the Auditor would report the former, not the latter.
June 19, 20204 yr The owner of Red Sesame presented last night at the monthly MCC General Body meeting. His request for a letter of support for rezoning his building from T4N.SF-O, Neighborhood Small Footprint-Open, to T5N.SS-O, Neighborhood Small Setback-Open, was approved 15-1-1. After his personal speech about why he wants to do this, it seems hard for anyone to say no. He also wants to demolish the existing multi-car garage and replace it with a personal garden. The efficiency on the second floor is intended to be used by a family member and he wants to get started on the outdoor kitchen first so he can open faster due to current conditions. A schedule for the sidewalk improvements was included in the minutes and all work is estimated to be completed by Thanksgiving. The only 2 bump-outs shown are at the southern side of the Madison and Whetsel intersection. Instead of fixing the lane shift on eastbound Madison, the curb will pulled back before the shift occurs.
June 25, 20204 yr Site prep for PLK Communities development at Madison and Stewart began yesterday. A rear addition to the historic Stewart house was demolished. It will become a clubhouse with a pool. They presented an update last month. Work on the clubhouse is scheduled to be completed in October and first residents expected in January. 18 month is the total build time. They also presented the landscaping plan and elevation drawings of the clubhouse.MCC May general body meeting - PLK Communities presentation
July 23, 20204 yr Work started at 6021 Madison Road about a week ago. Active work is on-going today. Photo taken from Mathis. Not visible is the tanks that were dug up as they are on the other side of the excavator. I don't know when the last time this property was actually in use but it looks like it has been some time. There does not appear to be any permits filed with the City which seems odd. Current owner is NYC PROPERTY MANAGEMENT which bought it in 2018 for $160k. I took this last night while walking the dog. It does a pretty good job showing how much the curb was pulled back on eastbound Madison before Whetsel. It still doesn't seem like it is enough room for a dedicated parking lane and the plans always show the current configuration of 5 lanes. The 3rd building also has plans to pull back the curb, though it will stay in its current position in front of Millie's where the lanes shift before Ward. It all seems like a wasted opportunity for a road diet of some kind.
July 23, 20204 yr 18 minutes ago, Dev said: Work started at 6021 Madison Road about a week ago. Active work is on-going today. Photo taken from Mathis. Not visible is the tanks that were dug up as they are on the other side of the excavator. I don't know when the last time this property was actually in use but it looks like it has been some time. There does not appear to be any permits filed with the City which seems odd. Current owner is NYC PROPERTY MANAGEMENT which bought it in 2018 for $160k. I took this last night while walking the dog. It does a pretty good job showing how much the curb was pulled back on eastbound Madison before Whetsel. It still doesn't seem like it is enough room for a dedicated parking lane and the plans always show the current configuration of 5 lanes. The 3rd building also has plans to pull back the curb, though it will stay in its current position in front of Millie's where the lanes shift before Ward. It all seems like a wasted opportunity for a road diet of some kind. Glad to see something happening at 6021 madison. Always thought that would make a cool second Queen City Radio. Madisonville has so many pockets of land that will hopefully get developed. Edited July 23, 20204 yr by Ucgrad2015 Added radio
July 23, 20204 yr RIP to the oddly-spaced "Smile You're On Our Camera" door sign. Based on GoogleStreetview, it looks like it was last in use in late 2008, glad work is starting!
July 23, 20204 yr I could see the tank removal being a condition of sale. Being zoned auto, it will most likely stay that way. It is tough to change zoning to Auto. It seems like the other auto-oriented businesses along Madison do well. Also, no way this place will be a bar, as the actual former bar across the street (Arrow Tavern) was denied a liquor license a couple years ago. The owner is convinced the developer of the new buildings is pulling strings to keep them for himself, but I don't know enough about the process to confirm if that is even possible.
July 23, 20204 yr ^It's actually zoned T4N.MF-O, neighborhood medium footprint-open, T5MS-O, main street-open, as part of the form based code. It does not appear that any kind of vehicle services are allowed within that zoning so it's possible the tank removal is part of getting the building up to the zoning for some other use. We shall see shortly, especially if there is some more demolition to follow. The vacant lot behind it is also for sale. It appears to be a different owner but same agent. It's the kind of price that makes you think they don't actually want to sell the spot: https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/4913-Mathis-St_Cincinnati_OH_45227_M42131-01449 Edited July 23, 20204 yr by Dev
July 23, 20204 yr With the form based code, do buildings get grandfathered in? T5MS requires a 2 story building, at minimum. I'm curious if the building has to be modified before being occupied again or granted any permits.
July 23, 20204 yr 55 minutes ago, Dev said: With the form based code, do buildings get grandfathered in? T5MS requires a 2 story building, at minimum. I'm curious if the building has to be modified before being occupied again or granted any permits. Without doing any research, I assume it is grandfathered. I have a friend in the industry and he said it is very hard to expand because most places don't allow that zoning, so his only hope is to buy an existing shop that is grandfathered in.
July 25, 20204 yr On 7/23/2020 at 3:04 PM, nicker66 said: I could see the tank removal being a condition of sale. Looks like you are likely correct. The hole was filled back in yesterday and the lot has been leveled with gravel.
July 29, 20204 yr Does anyone have any renderings of the finished development at madison and whetsel and madison and stewart?
July 30, 20204 yr 17 hours ago, Cincinnatus said: Does anyone have any renderings of the finished development at madison and whetsel and madison and stewart? Both developers have only posted updates during public meetings. It was my understanding that the PLK development is changing their design to be less uniform but I haven't seen any new renderings. They did present during the May MCC meeting with a rendering of the clubhouse and the landscaping plan: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cjivtooLoKbE3aa9dPpdzbzV39eX36Nn/view Ackermann also presented in May with renderings of phase 2 and a block perspective of all the phases. It also had a site layout of phase 3 but I think that means that it is still a work in progress: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1O1QXlTYuBR0WeNJdxFUh-E57_hmwBzd_/view
July 30, 20204 yr How do you all picture Madisonville in 5 years? Is it going to continue to gentrify?
July 30, 20204 yr 1 minute ago, IAGuy39 said: How do you all picture Madisonville in 5 years? Is it going to continue to gentrify? Oh yeah absolutely. All these new units are designed for people with disposable incomes so once they all come online there will be a strong base for local retail which will draw more flips, new starts etc
July 30, 20204 yr My mechanic (not anymore as I got a new car and don't need him!!!) is on Madison Road in Madisonville and I also worked part time at the CRC center in Madisonville. I can't even recognize now when I drive through.
July 30, 20204 yr 1 hour ago, IAGuy39 said: How do you all picture Madisonville in 5 years? Is it going to continue to gentrify? There are so many developable empty lots around the business district. It’ll be exciting to see what comes of these lots. I am also wondering that will happen to the strip mall Across from these. I was at one of the council meetings and they said that they did not tear it down due to not having the funds and that they were going to to a facelift. They renovated the Braxton clinic, but just did a small facelift to the rest of the businesses. Hopefully they have a king range plan for the site since it noe looks off from the rest of the development.
July 30, 20204 yr 54 minutes ago, Ucgrad2015 said: There are so many developable empty lots around the business district. It’ll be exciting to see what comes of these lots. I am also wondering that will happen to the strip mall Across from these. I was at one of the council meetings and they said that they did not tear it down due to not having the funds and that they were going to to a facelift. They renovated the Braxton clinic, but just did a small facelift to the rest of the businesses. Hopefully they have a king range plan for the site since it noe looks off from the rest of the development. I think Ackermann's original design called to redevelop the lot and a study commissioned by MCURC before they got involved did as well. I think those designs are basically collecting dust and I doubt anything significant will happen there within the next 5 years absent large public investment. I can see Ackermann or MCURC starting to make early steps for redevelopment, such as creating new designs or pressuring the city to let the current leases lapse.
July 30, 20204 yr 6011 Madison Road is now accepting leases. Layout shows restaurant with office space above. Previously, the owner asked for support from MCC to buy the overgrown community garden in the lot next to it, 6007 Madison. IIRC he was offering to move the garden somewhere else. The idea was that he wanted to turn it into parking for future office employees and that he wouldn't be able to lease the space without it. Public records indicate that it is still owned by the City. The floor plans also indicate parking space behind the building, which will require the demolition of an addition of some kind. I didn't get a good look yet, to see if that has been done. I also know of 5 new SFHs being built in Madisonville:4812 Jameson Street was currently getting demolished and was formerly on the condemned list. It is owned by the Keene Group, who bill themselves as using "high-end materials without high-end cost." Nearby, 3 long-term vacant lots are being cleared of overgrowth to be turned into 3 SFHs" 4813 Roanoke Street, 4807 Roanoke Street, and 4803 Roanoke Street. I have heard that the new owner is a local architect that wants to self build and live in one of the 3 units. Hopefully the neighbors to the south are quiet. Finally, another vacant lot at 6008 Bramble Avenue, is being developed by HTS Properties who are based out of Mt. Adams. It has been vacant since 2001. Their Instagram shows several flips in the Madisonville/Madison Place area and they own several other homes in Madisonville that they are probably waiting to flip. TL;DR: I think the ceiling is very high for Madisonville over the next 5 years.
July 30, 20204 yr I know it's not sexy, but can we get some duplexes/quads in Madisonville? These types of housing don't typically get built nowadays, but cost of Living/Rent is about to skyrocket in that neighborhood, so getting denser needs to be a priority. These single-family homes will be Oakley/HP/Madiera prices very soon, and will track with their increases in the future.
July 30, 20204 yr I’m hoping someone will purchase the kings ice cream at 6210 Madison Ave. and open that back up. Would be great to have a ice cream store I can walk to.
July 30, 20204 yr 8 minutes ago, Ucgrad2015 said: I’m hoping someone will purchase the kings ice cream at 6210 Madison Ave. and open that back up. Would be great to have a ice cream store I can walk to. I'm worried that the rent on that billboard is high enough to allow the owner to just sit on the property for a very long time. Still though, some bumpouts at the nearby crosswalk would be real nice for both them and the church. Interestingly, the parcel for that store goes all the way back to Sierra. I have assumed that was the exit for cars pulling in from Madison.
July 30, 20204 yr 1 hour ago, 10albersa said: I know it's not sexy, but can we get some duplexes/quads in Madisonville? These types of housing don't typically get built nowadays, but cost of Living/Rent is about to skyrocket in that neighborhood, so getting denser needs to be a priority. These single-family homes will be Oakley/HP/Madiera prices very soon, and will track with their increases in the future. This is a zoning issue right? Even with the FBC overlay, the majority of land use in Madisonville is either SF-2, 4 or 6, which bans new duplexes and above.
July 31, 20204 yr 7 hours ago, Dev said: This is a zoning issue right? Even with the FBC overlay, the majority of land use in Madisonville is either SF-2, 4 or 6, which bans new duplexes and above. Yeah, I won't go off topic, but SF zoning needs to be abolished going forward throughout the city. Allow up to Quadplexes on SF lots.
July 31, 20204 yr ^My experience so far in the local community implies that modernizing the zoning code is going to have to be a city-wide policy. Too many people are going to be worried about legalizing multis, removing parking minimums, reducing setbacks/lot sizes, etc. We're certainly not a progressive city but I wish we at least had one local politician who would bring it up so we can at least get some larger public awareness. Back on topic, that city-owned strip mall at Madison and Whetsel has lease available signs by Midland Retail, which is the same company working on Ackermann's properties. It will be interesting what long-term turnover looks like there.
July 31, 20204 yr 1 hour ago, Dev said: ^My experience so far in the local community implies that modernizing the zoning code is going to have to be a city-wide policy. Too many people are going to be worried about legalizing multis, removing parking minimums, reducing setbacks/lot sizes, etc. We're certainly not a progressive city but I wish we at least had one local politician who would bring it up so we can at least get some larger public awareness. Back on topic, that city-owned strip mall at Madison and Whetsel has lease available signs by Midland Retail, which is the same company working on Ackermann's properties. It will be interesting what long-term turnover looks like there. I wonder what the rent prices are in that strip mall compared to the new storefronts. I went to the family dollar the other day and was taken back by how disorganized the place was (very friendly staff though). I wonder if they are going to force them out eventually.
July 31, 20204 yr I'd say it's around $12-15/sqft. Something newer would be $16-24. Family Dollar might be paying less per sqft since it's a larger space.
July 31, 20204 yr 1 hour ago, Dev said: ^My experience so far in the local community implies that modernizing the zoning code is going to have to be a city-wide policy. Too many people are going to be worried about legalizing multis, removing parking minimums, reducing setbacks/lot sizes, etc. We're certainly not a progressive city but I wish we at least had one local politician who would bring it up so we can at least get some larger public awareness. Not to diverge, but PG has expressed his support for these changes at a few public events I've attended. Derek Bauman, who is running for council next year, is also a huge advocate for this stuff.
July 31, 20204 yr We need at large representatives to weigh in more heavily on things like this, because the only voices are those with vested interests one way or another. They're very vocal minorities, while the much larger ambivalent or supportive (but indirectly affected) parties never come to the table.
August 6, 20204 yr A small business in Madisonville has taken off during quarantine after being featured in both the Enquirer and Cincinnati Refined. Originally planned as a coffee cart with plants for sale, she started fulfilling plant orders from her garage once everything was derailed by COVID-19. I recently heard she got called out for running a retail business out of her home, which is zoned SF-4, but the MBC has helped her find a small store front in the unofficial Bramble business district. She opens up on Tuesday. https://www.instagram.com/fleurishgrounds/http://cincinnatirefined.com/lifestyle/fluerish-grounds-pop-up-plants-greenery-indoor-botanical-small-business-at-home-madisonville-cincinnati https://www.cincinnati.com/picture-gallery/entertainment/2020/07/31/welcome-fleurish-grounds-plant-shop-madisonville-garage/5538166002/
August 6, 20204 yr 27 minutes ago, Dev said: A small business in Madisonville has taken off during quarantine after being featured in both the Enquirer and Cincinnati Refined. Originally planned as a coffee cart with plants for sale, she started fulfilling plant orders from her garage once everything was derailed by COVID-19. I recently heard she got called out for running a retail business out of her home, which is zoned SF-4, but the MBC has helped her find a small store front in the unofficial Bramble business district. She opens up on Tuesday. https://www.instagram.com/fleurishgrounds/http://cincinnatirefined.com/lifestyle/fluerish-grounds-pop-up-plants-greenery-indoor-botanical-small-business-at-home-madisonville-cincinnati https://www.cincinnati.com/picture-gallery/entertainment/2020/07/31/welcome-fleurish-grounds-plant-shop-madisonville-garage/5538166002/ Saw her shop while walking around the neighborhood last weekend. Plan on going this weekend which is her last. She opens up Tuesday but not exactly sure which building she’ll be in (either the nice brick storefronts close to Erie or the really bad looking ones across from Euroauto) which imo the ones across from Euroauto should really be torn down. Would love to see all the storefronts in the brick building filled up someday.
August 6, 20204 yr 9 hours ago, Ucgrad2015 said: Saw her shop while walking around the neighborhood last weekend. Plan on going this weekend which is her last. She opens up Tuesday but not exactly sure which building she’ll be in (either the nice brick storefronts close to Erie or the really bad looking ones across from Euroauto) which imo the ones across from Euroauto should really be torn down. Would love to see all the storefronts in the brick building filled up someday. I was told it would be in the old T-Mobile retailer, which is 5905 Bramble Ave, the building you think should be torn down.
August 6, 20204 yr 1 hour ago, Dev said: I was told it would be in the old T-Mobile retailer, which is 5905 Bramble Ave, the building you think should be torn down. Well it’s good to see she’s renovating that storefront. They need to at least give those storefront a facelift.
August 6, 20204 yr This is by far the most ambitious new build in the neighborhood. Permits mention a retaining wall, a hot tub and pool, while the lot itself is a natural depression so I'm assuming storm mitigation won't be simple. Not only will this be the most expensive SF house on the street, but probably the most expensive one in the whole neighborhood. This was a vacant lot that does not appear to have ever been improved upon in the past.
August 6, 20204 yr 1 hour ago, Dev said: This is by far the most ambitious new build in the neighborhood. Permits mention a retaining wall, a hot tub and pool, while the lot itself is a natural depression so I'm assuming storm mitigation won't be simple. Not only will this be the most expensive SF house on the street, but probably the most expensive one in the whole neighborhood. This was a vacant lot that does not appear to have ever been improved upon in the past. From a friend who lives close to this house and have chatted with the owners and said they are from Madeira. I believe he stated that the house will be around a million total, so definitely the most expensive house in Madisonville by a lot. You can the back of the house from the trail and it looks pretty impressive.
August 7, 20204 yr 16 hours ago, Dev said: This is by far the most ambitious new build in the neighborhood. Permits mention a retaining wall, a hot tub and pool, while the lot itself is a natural depression so I'm assuming storm mitigation won't be simple. Not only will this be the most expensive SF house on the street, but probably the most expensive one in the whole neighborhood. This was a vacant lot that does not appear to have ever been improved upon in the past. Wow! A building lot in Madeira runs $180k so they are probably saving a ton by building in Madisonville. I could see this becoming the next trend. What street?
August 7, 20204 yr 54 minutes ago, nicker66 said: Wow! A building lot in Madeira runs $180k so they are probably saving a ton by building in Madisonville. I could see this becoming the next trend. What street? It's Islington, with its back to the Murray Trail. The lot is 0.6 of an acre and they paid $70k for it according to the auditor. I don't think there are too many lots of this size in the neighborhood and all of the vacant ones I can think of are narrow SF-2 type lots. All of the lot sizes are pretty small so I'm not sure tear downs will take off. 4999 Madison will be really interesting but it's owned by a legendary curmudgeon. The Red's holding company bought the neighboring home at the intersection with Oaklawn though.
August 16, 20204 yr On 7/30/2020 at 4:17 AM, Cincinnatus said: Does anyone have any renderings of the finished development at madison and whetsel and madison and stewart? This is from WCPO: https://www.wcpo.com/news/transportation-development/move-up-cincinnati/cincinnati-city-council-committee-could-approve-950k-in-tif-funds-for-madisonville-development
August 24, 20204 yr On 8/16/2020 at 1:06 AM, UncleRando said: This is from WCPO: https://www.wcpo.com/news/transportation-development/move-up-cincinnati/cincinnati-city-council-committee-could-approve-950k-in-tif-funds-for-madisonville-development Thanks Randy, I meant the side diagonally across from this ... next to Bad Tom brewing. I was curious if anyone had anything for the Madison and Stewart dev too?
August 24, 20204 yr 22 minutes ago, Cincinnatus said: Thanks Randy, I meant the side diagonally across from this ... next to Bad Tom brewing. I was curious if anyone had anything for the Madison and Stewart dev too? The Madison and Stewart development is underway. They are currently adding onto the house that will be used as their clubhouse.
August 24, 20204 yr https://www.ourmadisonville.com/madison-and-whetsel-development has links to renderings including Phase 3 @Cincinnatus There's not as much on the Jameson (Madison & Steawart) but it's also on the CC site here: https://www.ourmadisonville.com/madison-and-stewart-development
August 24, 20204 yr Did not get any photos but I do live in Madisonville so it would not take me long to snap some pics. Phase 2 of Madison and Whetsel: currently on the third floor Phase 3 of Madison and Whetsel: nothing yet but they did get that TIf money so I’d assume something starting soon. The Jameson: land is cleared and they are adding the addition currently to the back of the clubhouse. 5629 Madison: I think this used to be and old ice house or something like that back in the day, currently is being fully rehabbed but not sure into what (imo would make an great second brewery location for Rhinegeist or Urban artifact) Medpace office tower: Pretty close to being completed (not sure what the status is on the food hall that is going to be next to it but I do not believe work has started) And not sure what the empty lot right behind the gas station is going to be but at one point it was supposed to be apartments. Th Red apartments: pretty much complete (I think Phase 3) not sure if the office component of it is still happening or not. Edited August 24, 20204 yr by Ucgrad2015 Spelling
August 25, 20204 yr 5 hours ago, shawk said: https://www.ourmadisonville.com/madison-and-whetsel-development has links to renderings including Phase 3 @Cincinnatus There's not as much on the Jameson (Madison & Steawart) but it's also on the CC site here: https://www.ourmadisonville.com/madison-and-stewart-development Wow, that must be a recent update to the MCC website. I was not in the mood to dig through their Facebook page to find all the documents from previous meetings.
August 25, 20204 yr 3 hours ago, Ucgrad2015 said: Phase 3 of Madison and Whetsel: nothing yet but they did get that TIf money so I’d assume something starting soon. I wish there was more transparency with the TIF districts. When the TIF districts got increased last winter, City Beat reported that the Madisonville TIF had $1 million in it, but none of it was available to be used because of debt obligations. IIRC, Ackermann is using $900k from the TIF for Phase 3 improvements and the public plaza will be planned and maintained using TIF funds as well. It was also my understanding that all 3 phases of the project are going to be their own TIF project fund so they won't be paying back into the greater TIF district. I don't know if that's actually true or how to even verify that information.
August 25, 20204 yr Here’s a link to the retail/office portion of the Red. I’d assume if it’s still up that it’s still on the table but you never know. https://onsiteretailgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/The-RED-Brochure.pdf
August 25, 20204 yr The old Jiffy Lube at Madison and Red Bank has had this sign up for at least a month: Also, the sidewalk improvements for phase 3 appear to be completed along Madison and Whetsel with exception of the street trees. The right turn lane is no longer usable due to the bump out but the former paint still remains.
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