November 17, 201410 yr From most of the data I have seen Cleveland gets an average of 55 inches more snow a year than Cincinnati. Definitely funny we have more today, and in the middle of November no less. I sure hope this is not worse than last year. http://www.currentresults.com/Weather/US/annual-snowfall-by-city.php
November 17, 201410 yr ^Growing up in Chardon, the heavy snow is what I grew to love....strange or not. https://www.instagram.com/cle_and_beyond/https://www.instagram.com/jbkaufer/
November 17, 201410 yr in chardon, we get 107 inches. Too bad I hate the snow. I loved Chardon except for that. Trying to go home up SR-44 after midnight in the s*** was like trying to thread an oily needle in a dark room.
November 17, 201410 yr From most of the data I have seen Cleveland gets an average of 55 inches more snow a year than Cincinnati. Definitely funny we have more today, and in the middle of November no less. I sure hope this is not worse than last year. http://www.currentresults.com/Weather/US/annual-snowfall-by-city.php I think Cincinnati is in a horrible spot in terms of the amount of snow we get annually. The website you linked shows about half of what Wikipedia shows for Cincy’s average (maybe it’s the years they used). The average, according to Wikipedia, is 22 inches which seems more accurate than 11. Either way, the problem is that Cincy doesn’t get enough snow to invest too heavily in snow removal, so there’s always a huge lag between when roads are cleared. Coupled with the fact that you can’t really get anywhere without multiple climbs/descents of several hundred feet of topography makes things a mess. Between having a RWD car and the fact that the city closes the hills to buses when the weather gets bad, walking is my only option some days.
November 17, 201410 yr Don't use Wiki. Use the National Weather Service's climatology data: http://www.nws.noaa.gov/climate/local_data.php?wfo=cle BTW, the annual snowfall is based on an average of the last 30 years. So when I started to realize I was a weather geek in the early 80s, the annual snowfall for Cleveland was 53 inches. Today it's 68.2 inches. The reason? Nine of the city's 10 snowiest winters have all occurred since 1977. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 17, 201410 yr Don't use Wiki. Use the National Weather Service's climatology data: http://www.nws.noaa.gov/climate/local_data.php?wfo=cle BTW, the annual snowfall is based on an average of the last 30 years. So when I started to realize I was a weather geek in the early 80s, the annual snowfall for Cleveland was 53 inches. Today it's 68.2 inches. The reason? Nine of the city's 10 snowiest winters have all occurred since 1977. Thanks for the link and info. Using 1984-2014 for Cincy, the average is 22.9 inches annually. I'm not sure how the link above arrived at 11 inches, from what I can see there have only been 3 times in the last 30 years that Cincy has had under 11" snow. Oddly enough, the most (47.5") was last winter, and the least was 2012 (5.6"). The all-time average for Cincy is 21.5" annually, so there's a bit of a trend up here as well.
November 17, 201410 yr From most of the data I have seen Cleveland gets an average of 55 inches more snow a year than Cincinnati. Definitely funny we have more today, and in the middle of November no less. I sure hope this is not worse than last year. http://www.currentresults.com/Weather/US/annual-snowfall-by-city.php Most data suggests Cleveland gets about 55-60 total for the entire year. But it really depends on where you live in the MSA. West side gets significantly less snow than the east side and the counties to the east of Cuyahoga get a ton more snow. Anywhere lake level (i.e. Euclid) gets more snow than areas which are on the plateau above lake level (i.e. Mayfield Heights) But, as I mentioned upthread, it is not odd at all when any given City which gets less snow on a yearly basis gets pounded harder on any given day. That happens quite routinely as we rarely get more than a few inches on any given day...... whereas it might not snow for an entire month in another city and then one foot comes down in a few hours.
November 17, 201410 yr I imagine that's because Lake Erie has warmed? Could be. The sooner in the winter the lake freezes over, the sooner the lake effect snow stops.
November 17, 201410 yr Also in regards to Cleveland, keep in mind that the city center itself and more importantly the CBD usually receives on average about 25% less snow accumulation than some of the surrounding areas/counties. When looking at yearly averages Cleveland gets lumped into the total along with the eastern snowbelt numbers. For instance over this last storm while other areas and counties were getting 3-4 inches the city center received less than an inch.
November 17, 201410 yr Don't use Wiki. Use the National Weather Service's climatology data: http://www.nws.noaa.gov/climate/local_data.php?wfo=cle BTW, the annual snowfall is based on an average of the last 30 years. So when I started to realize I was a weather geek in the early 80s, the annual snowfall for Cleveland was 53 inches. Today it's 68.2 inches. The reason? Nine of the city's 10 snowiest winters have all occurred since 1977. Thanks for the link and info. Using 1984-2014 for Cincy, the average is 22.9 inches annually. I'm not sure how the link above arrived at 11 inches, from what I can see there have only been 3 times in the last 30 years that Cincy has had under 11" snow. Oddly enough, the most (47.5") was last winter, and the least was 2012 (5.6"). The all-time average for Cincy is 21.5" annually, so there's a bit of a trend up here as well. Interersting - not sure why the site matches the National Weather Service for Cleveland but appears to be off for Cincy. So that would adjust the average to Cleveland getting just over 45 inches more snow per year than Cincinnati. To your point it highlights why the snow removal efforts here seem to be unprepared. Honestly I am surprised the 5.6" in 2012 was the least - there was literally one year where it seemed we had zero.
November 17, 201410 yr I imagine that's because Lake Erie has warmed? Could be. The sooner in the winter the lake freezes over, the sooner the lake effect snow stops. The reason is because air temperatures aren't as cold as they used to be. Warmer air (ie: 25 instead of 20) can hold more moisture. Also in regards to Cleveland, keep in mind that the city center itself and more importantly the CBD usually receives on average about 25% less snow accumulation than some of the surrounding areas/counties. When looking at yearly averages Cleveland gets lumped into the total along with the eastern snowbelt numbers. For instance over this last storm while other areas and counties were getting 3-4 inches the city center received less than an inch. The official Cleveland weather reporting station is at the NWS office next to NASA which at Hopkins International Airport. The airport is southwest of downtown, which is the least-snowy side of the city -- it can only get lake-effect when there is a north-northwest wind off the lake when a westerly wind is more prevalent. Look at the lake shore contour. Visually follow a westerly wind across the lake and then over land. You'll notice that such a wind will not affect areas south of US 322. And then you have the terrain. The Allegheny Plateau starts east of Cleveland. When air is pushed upward over a rising landscape, it cools and condenses which wrings the precipitation out of it. These conditions are not present around the airport where official Cleveland snowfall records are measured. Even so, 68.2 inches for Cleveland is quite respectable! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 18, 201410 yr The way this storm is paralelling the lakeshore, it ought to be called Winter Storm Damocles.
November 18, 201410 yr The way this storm is paralelling the lakeshore, it ought to be called Winter Storm Damocles. Unless you're on the south side of Buffalo, then this lake effect band's name is NSFW! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 19, 201410 yr I have been complaining about the 4-5 inches of snow we got so early but now feel bad as there are reports of parts of Buffalo getting up to 6 feet of snow with this storm. That is crazy and is that right? It must be some sort of record. I was hoping this winter would be better than last year, but the whole country is breaking records already - not good.
November 19, 201410 yr It's not a record. Buffalo got 82 inches from a single lake-effect snowfall in 2001. This is what the NY Thruway looked like earlier today south of Buffalo near Hamburg. It's still snowing at rates of 2-5 inches per hour and more than five feet of snow is on the ground. SW winds and 15-degree temps absorb moisture from the entire 300-mile length of the 45-degree waters of Lake Erie, keeping an intense 25-mile-wide lake-effect snow band over the same area for 24 hours now. This photo shows the result. Amazingly, Amtrak trains made it through this snow-mageddon, albeit seriously delayed. Tonight's trains were canceled because no passengers can get to/from the stations. This photo was taken this morning south of Buffalo. Another three feet of snow has fallen since then, so I'm sure all these cars are still there and will be for days. Hopefully its occupants were rescued by police on snowmobiles (most police forces around Buffalo have at least one snowmobile): "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 19, 201410 yr Damn, I was going to post that! Oh well, guess I'll just have to post this (BTW, there's another lake-effect snow event setting up for Thursday).... Brutal storm claims four lives http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/winter/brutal-storm-claims-four-lives-20141118 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 19, 201410 yr Of course, all Buffalo snow storms pale in comparison to this one (yes, I remember it -- though it's impacts on Cleveland weren't anywhere near as bad -- and the 1978 blizzard which did hit Cleveland hard). The photos from the 77 storm are downright apocalyptic! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 19, 201410 yr The snow is literally crashing into homes near Buffalo... mobile.twitter.com/SherriGrin/status/534897726098771968/photo/1 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 19, 201410 yr My wife told me she was on 90E in the Cleveland area this morning and there were signs that the highway is closed at the NY border. I couldn't imagine 6 feet. I don't think I have even seen more than 1.5ft with my own eyes...... and I've lived in Cleveland for most of my life. Even the legendary storm of '78 (when I was a newborn, so I wouldn't remember) only brought us 15 inches. Is that 6 feet actual precipitation levels or is that measured with snow drifts in mind?
November 19, 201410 yr Actually, the Blizzard of 78 brought only 7 inches of snow at Hopkins, but did so on 80+ mph gusts with winds sustained above 50 mph for three hours and above 35 mph for 13 hours! Drifts were as high 20 feet. I had an eight-foot drift on the garage roof outside my bedroom window in Highland Heights. The snow got deeper the farther west you went, as the center of the storm came out of the Louisiana delta region, bombed out when a cold front hit it and passed over Greater Cleveland at dawn Jan. 26, dropping the barometric pressure to below those typically seen in strong hurricanes. Heaviest snow is usually to north and west of storm centers, so parts of Indiana ended up getting 40 inches! I saw the lake effect snow of November 1996 which brought 50+ inches to Chardon. It was funny watching cars driving around with so much snow on top their cars that it made them twice as tall. But there was almost no wind with the storm so it wasn't a blizzard (requires falling or blowing snow and winds sustained at 35 or gusting above 50 mph for at least three consecutive hours). Here's one of my favorite pictures from the Buffalo-area lake-effect. This was shot from airliner above downtown Buffalo, looking south last night... James A Fry @JamesAFry 11h11 hours ago Landing in #buffalo at 11pm #snowmageddon14 #LakeEffect #beyondthewall "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 19, 201410 yr Is that 6 feet actual precipitation levels or is that measured with snow drifts in mind? Snow is generally measured in the field and often by amateurs. It's all a bit more arbitrary than rainfall numbers, because of the type of snow and wind conditions that cause compaction and drift. Those numbers ideally should be averages of several measurements around an area to mitigate the effects of drift. However, pictures I've seen make it look like a lot of the affected areas are dealing with 3-4ft, with drifting up to and beyond 6ft.
November 19, 201410 yr The NWS publishes specific guidelines for designated observers to follow in measuring snow, and it starts with how to design and site a Snow Measurement Board: http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/coop/reference/Snow_Measurement_Guidelines.pdf "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 19, 201410 yr Those are some wild images above - thanks for posting. I actually saw clips of the storm coming in from the lake on news this morning.
November 19, 201410 yr I was in Syracuse when the storm came up the east coast in March of 1993. They ended up with 3 feet at the time. That was an enormous amount of snow, and I remember the road crews weren't able to plow and had to get the machines that chew up the snow and throw it into a dump, to cart off into Lake Onondaga. Driving down main streets was like driving through a tunnel. I can't imagine double that. It's going to take weeks for them to dig out.
November 19, 201410 yr I was in Syracuse when the storm came up the east coast in March of 1993. They ended up with 3 feet at the time. That was an enormous amount of snow, and I remember the road crews weren't able to plow and had to get the machines that chew up the snow and throw it into a dump, to cart off into Lake Onondaga. Driving down main streets was like driving through a tunnel. I can't imagine double that. It's going to take weeks for them to dig out. And there's another 1-2 feet coming tomorrow. I wouldn't waste my effort trying to clear the roads. I'd be clearing my roof. It can handle 1-2 feet of snow. It can't handle 1-2 feet on top of 3-6 feet, to be weighted down by rain this weekend. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 19, 201410 yr ^ That's very true. In Watertown (north of Syracuse) they build thier rooves with chimneys that are 3 feet high to allow for the snow accumulation.
November 19, 201410 yr It's getting up to 50 on Sunday so almost all of the snow that isn't in drifts will melt quickly.
November 20, 201410 yr State of New York @NYGov 4h4 hours ago The State has assembled 1,275 personnel & 658 pieces of heavy equipment including 463 plows to address snow removal. If you don't like Buffalo, well, there's the door. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 20, 201410 yr Between appointments this morning, I stopped by Brandywine Falls above the Cuyahoga Valley National Park. The falls were almost frozen solid!! The houses provide some scale as to how deep the Brandywine Creek gorge is, and how big those icicles are! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 21, 201410 yr Digging out in Western New York.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 21, 201410 yr Insane. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
November 21, 201410 yr Both storms that hit Buffalo started around here, you could see them quite clearly over the lake. But they traveled parallel to it, instead of coming inland. It was like the NE Ohio shoreline repelled the s***. If that's a pattern for the winter thar's good for us, but terrible for them.
November 21, 201410 yr Both storms that hit Buffalo started around here, you could see them quite clearly over the lake. But they traveled parallel to it, instead of coming inland. It was like the NE Ohio shoreline repelled the s***. If that's a pattern for the winter thar's good for us, but terrible for them. We in Greater Cleveland can get hammered with lake effect when the wind crosses 60-100 miles of open water and condenses moisture from it. These southwesterly winds are traveling across up to 300 miles of open water! That's a lot of moisture being condensed into precipitation. One of the heaviest lake-effect storms I can recall on the west side was in the early 1990s. It originated on NNW winds across Lake Huron and didn't snow itself out before the winds got to Lake Erie. So by the time it got to Cleveland, it was nearly as super-charged with moisture as the storms that western New York. But the temperature difference wasn't as stark and the winds trajectory kept changing so it didn't sit over the same area for more than 6-12 hours at a time. Some of Cleveland's western suburbs got 25 inches from that snowfall. Here's the wind trajectories that cause the greatest lake effect snowfall potential for Cleveland vs Buffalo: "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 21, 201410 yr 7 feet of snow is probably loading around 100 pounds per square foot of extra weight onto all those roofs. Without doing a code study, that's probably well over the roof snow load requirements even for Buffalo. As that starts to melt and shift on sloping roofs, there's going to be a lot of unbalanced point loads, too.
November 21, 201410 yr Digging out in Western New York.... For some reason, that looks like the mountains somewhere and not western NY (Large pine trees)
November 21, 201410 yr http://www.onthesnow.com/gallery/p/photo/982/nassfeld-in-feb-2014-id157733#content_pos
November 23, 201410 yr http://www.onthesnow.com/gallery/p/photo/982/nassfeld-in-feb-2014-id157733#content_pos Wow, you actually bothered to look that up?? Must've been a real slow Saturday at the Sparkle household! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 25, 201410 yr http://www.onthesnow.com/gallery/p/photo/982/nassfeld-in-feb-2014-id157733#content_pos Wow, you actually bothered to look that up?? Must've been a real slow Saturday at the Sparkle household! Actually it was quite EZ; goto Google Image Search and drag the saved image onto the search location, it will search for all instances of that same image and similar images on the Internets
December 10, 201410 yr Gets good about the 5:00 mark....... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 24, 201410 yr My family is about to have a food storage crisis due to this heatwave. We usually store stuff in coolers outside for the holidays. We will be buying bags of ice apparently.
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