Posted December 12, 200519 yr I know there are other threads about "red light" cameras in various cities, but this is a story with statewide implications and likely deserves a thread of it's own. If this attorney's legal point is upheld, it could affect camera's used not only for red lights, but for other traffic violations. Red light cameras face challenge in lawsuit Monday, December 12, 2005 Susan Vinella Plain Dealer Reporter A small-town fight over the legality of red light and speeding cameras in southwestern Ohio could have implications in Cleveland. A Steubenville attorney has filed a lawsuit that argues the cameras, which take pictures of red light runners and speeders, are illegal because the infractions are considered civil and not criminal, which he contends violates state law. Gary Stern, a personal injury lawyer in Steubenville, said traffic violations such as speeding are criminal under Ohio law, so violators have the right to appeal their fines in court. However, cities such as Steubenville, Akron and Cleveland treat traffic violations captured on cameras as civil infractions, which Stern argues is illegal without approval by the state. http://www.cleveland.com/metro/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1134380046297660.xml&coll=2
December 12, 200519 yr Smile! You're on red-light camera By: Tracey Read Willoughby News-Herald [email protected] 12/12/2005 Back in 2002, then-Lyndhurst Mayor Barry Jacobson pitched the idea of installing cameras at city intersections to take pictures of people exceeding the posted speed limit. If the proposal had been adopted, Lyndhurst would have had the dubious distinction of being the first city in the eastern United States to use electronic ticketing to catch speeders. http://www.news-herald.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15737163&BRD=1698&PAG=461&dept_id=21849&rfi=6
December 13, 200519 yr Apparently so. There is also a bill now in the Ohio Senate that would ban all camera-based traffic enforcement.
December 13, 200519 yr A couple points: 1. Way to teach your kid responsibility. "Don't pay the ticket--sue someone instead!" 2. Perhaps if Jane Campbell never explicitly sold red light cameras as a revenue enhancer, this wouldn't be an issue. 3. There are a zillion red light cameras and speed lasers (some of them portable) in the District of Columbia. While people who get the tickets are upset, you really don't see too many cars running red lights, making for a far safer and far more pleasant pedestrian and bicycling experience.
December 13, 200519 yr Hell if they were really serious about this, they should put them with radars in school zones. This state is so stupid.
December 14, 200519 yr 3. There are a zillion red light cameras and speed lasers (some of them portable) in the District of Columbia. While people who get the tickets are upset, you really don't see too many cars running red lights, making for a far safer and far more pleasant pedestrian and bicycling experience. yeah, now in cleveland, i only know to be a safe driver between E. 79 and chester & E 79th and chester.
December 14, 200519 yr The thing that irritates me is that they put these up in places where they would catch commuters, not in the places that actually have the problems with people running red lights. And not in the places where pedestrians are really likely to be walking. This whole "let's shaft everyone who is coming to work or shop in our community" mentality isn't helping us. This is just one more reason to stay the fuck out of Cleveland. We are going to lose more in business than we will gain in ticket revenue.
December 14, 200519 yr City reducing fines for Akron speeders caught on camera Wednesday, December 14, 2005 Steve Luttner Plain Dealer Reporter Akron- Speeders caught by cameras in Akron will pay much lower fines, but don't look for a similar reduction in Cleveland. Both cities recently installed cameras to track traffic violations and issue citations. But the photo-cops placed in school zones have triggered significant grumbling in Akron. http://www.cleveland.com/metro/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/summit/1134552692299310.xml&coll=2
March 15, 200619 yr Vote delayed on red-light camera limits Wednesday, March 15, 2006 A bill that could change the way Ohio cities use red-light cameras, or whether cities can continue using them at all, will be debated a little longer. House Bill 56 was expected to be voted out of the Senate’s Highways and Transportation Committee yesterday. But because the bill was significantly altered last week, Sen. Jeffry Armbruster, chairman of the committee, delayed the vote in favor of more discussion. http://www.dispatch.com/news-story.php?story=dispatch/2006/03/15/20060315-B8-02.html
March 16, 200619 yr "But Armbruster, a Republican from North Ridgeville, said the provisions aren’t meant to stop cities from using cameras, just to ensure that the cameras are used solely for safety and not "cash collections."" How about if cash fines are waived in favor of jail terms and license suspensions ? mmm I still think they'd whine.
March 19, 200619 yr http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060319/NEWS08/60319001/-1/NEWS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article published March 19, 2006 Red-light camera legislation stalled Toledo, other cities protest Senate bill By JIM PROVANCE BLADE COLUMBUS BUREAU COLUMBUS — Proposed roadblocks to red-light and speed-enforcement cameras in Ohio could take the flash out of Toledo’s pioneer program and raise new privacy concerns over where cameras should be aimed. The Senate Highways and Transportation Committee had planned to send the full chamber a revised bill last week but canceled the vote after facing a flood of opposition from cities such as Toledo, Northwood, Dayton, and Columbus. The cities particularly object to a provision prohibiting the issuance of citations to owners of vehicles caught running red lights unless police can prove the owner was driving.
March 20, 200619 yr http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060320/OPINION02/603190313/-1/OPINION -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article published March 20, 2006 Stop on red Toledo Blade Editorial The time and energy that Ohio lawmakers have spent rewriting and debating the use of red-light cameras at busy intersections far outweigh the issue's import. The pros and cons of cameras snapping photos of speeders or red-light runners do not rate more consideration than, say, matters like school funding. But statehouse politicians are fixated on whether red-light cameras should continue as a supplemental tool for law enforcement.
May 18, 200619 yr Vote on red-light cameras delayed Wednesday, May 17, 2006 Jodi Andes THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH A pivotal vote on a bill that would set standards on how, and if, Ohio cities can use redlight cameras ran into another detour yesterday. Four last-minute amendments delayed a vote on House Bill 56 in the Senate Highways and Transportation Committee. Committee Chairman Sen. Jeffry Armbruster, R-North Ridgeville, postponed the vote for a week to see if yet a ninth version of the bill needs to be drafted. http://dispatch.com/news-story.php?story=dispatch/2006/05/17/20060517-B3-02.html
May 25, 200619 yr Bill regulating red-light cameras stays alive Thursday, May 25, 2006 Jodi Andes THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH Regulations to limit how and whether cities can use cameras to enforce traffic laws squeaked through last-minute negotiations in a Senate committee yesterday and moved closer to becoming law. But it’s unclear when the full Senate might consider the bill, which means its possible adoption could be a long time coming. http://dispatch.com/news-story.php?story=dispatch/2006/05/25/20060525-B1-03.html
August 21, 200618 yr From the AP, 8/20/06: Traffic cameras stalled at a stoplight Sunday, August 20, 2006 By MATT LEINGANG ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER COLUMBUS - Judges, angry motorists and some sympathetic state lawmakers are coming down on Ohio cities that use high-tech cameras to catch drivers who speed and run red lights. A judge in Northeast Ohio ruled this summer that a camera program used to catch speeders in Girard, near Youngstown, was unconstitutional and ordered the city to stop using it. A driver later sued Toledo, saying a $95 ticket she got for running a red light was improper because, among other things, no police officer was present as a witness. http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?ID=303205
January 5, 200718 yr From the 12/5/06 ABJ: Speed cams are back in court Federal judge asks Ohio Supreme Court to rule on correct use By John Higgins Beacon Journal staff writer A federal judge has asked the Ohio Supreme Court to decide whether municipalities such as Akron can use automated cameras to issue civil fines for what Ohio law says are criminal traffic offenses. Akron speeders in school zones caught by the cameras get civil fines -- like paying for a parking ticket -- but if caught by police officers, they risk losing their licenses. http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/news/16166979.htm?source=rss&channel=ohio_news
January 5, 200718 yr From the 12/6/06 Dispatch: Red-light camera bill speeds to Senate amid doubts Wednesday, December 06, 2006 Jodi Andes THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH The state Senate’s mostrestrictive bill aimed at limiting red-light cameras was put on the fast track to becoming Ohio law yesterday. But opponents say the attempt to pass the bill, which was being rushed before it would die at year’s end, could give violators a loophole to avoid paying the traffic ticket. http://www.dispatch.com/news-story.php?story=dispatch/2006/12/06/20061206-B6-00.html
January 5, 200718 yr From the 12/7/06 Blade: Red-light camera restrictions pass But opponent of bill sees bright side By JIM PROVANCE BLADE COLUMBUS BUREAU COLUMBUS - A bill significantly restricting their use as substitute police officers does not sound the death knell for traffic-enforcement cameras in Ohio, the largest player in the industry said yesterday. With one Republican joining Democrats in opposition, the state Senate yesterday voted 20-11 to set new restrictions on cities' use of cameras for red-light enforcement and to outlaw their use for speed enforcement anywhere but in active school zones with flashing yellow lights. http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061207/NEWS24/612070390/-1/NEWS
January 5, 200718 yr From the 12/13/06 Dispatch: Taft urged to put stop to red-light camera bill Wednesday, December 13, 2006 Jodi Andes THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH Columbus is asking the governor to veto a bill the legislature passed yesterday that puts the city’s red-light camera program in jeopardy. The bill, which would require cities to identify the driver of a car caught by a camera running a red light but would prohibit photographing the driver’s face, would make it impossible to collect fines, Mayor Michael B. Coleman said. He was echoing the concerns of other city leaders in Ohio. http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1166002259125610.xml&coll=2
January 5, 200718 yr From the 12/14/06 ABJ: Speed cameras threatened Akron officials say state law would effectively end operation; Plusquellic seeks veto By John Higgins Beacon Journal staff writer Akron Mayor Don Plusquellic is urging Gov. Bob Taft to veto a law passed by the Ohio House on Tuesday that restricts the use of automated cameras to enforce speeding and red light laws. The new law would require Akron to scrap its current camera enforcement near schools. http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/news/16236913.htm?source=rss&channel=ohio_news
January 5, 200718 yr From the 01.05.06 PD Taft rejects traffic camera bill Regina Fields (Cleveland) Plain Dealer January 5, 2006 Gov. Bob Taft today vetoed a bill that would have sharply restricted the use of automated traffic cameras, a victory for cities that had lobbied hard against the measure. If the bill had become law, it essentially would have prevented use of the cameras for speed enforcement, which has been a revenue-producer for cities like Cleveland, although the cities have cited safety as a reason for the camera programs ... ... More at http://www.cleveland.com/newslogs/plaindealer/index.ssf?/mtlogs/cleve_plaindealer/archives/2007_01.html#222068
January 5, 200718 yr "I can discern no strong public policy that warrants this sweeping preemption of local control over our local streets." You've got to be kidding. He actually said that. Hold on... my eyes just rolled out of their sockets.
February 24, 200718 yr From the 2/8/07 ABJ: High court to rule on traffic cameras Ohio Supreme Court to decide if home rule for cities allows civil fines for criminal offenses By John Higgins Beacon Journal staff writer The Ohio Supreme Court will decide whether municipalities such as Akron can use automated cameras to issue civil fines for what Ohio law says are criminal traffic offenses. The court announced Wednesday that it had accepted the case. http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/news/16650925.htm?source=rss&channel=ohio_news
June 8, 200718 yr Link contains a photo. From the 3/1/07 Blade: GRAPHIC: City of Toledo automated camera program revenue NEXT STOP: OHIO SUPREME COURT Traffic cameras face new hurdle Lawsuits say police must see violations, hand driver a ticket By MARK REITER BLADE STAFF WRITER The cameras that snap photos of speeders and red-light violators at high-risk intersections are praised by police for improving safety and reducing crashes. But the future of the devices, which generate millions of dollars for Toledo and other communities throughout Ohio, is hinging on the outcome of class-action challenges before the state Supreme Court. http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070301/NEWS02/703010439/-1/RSS
June 8, 200718 yr From the 3/7/07 Defiance Crescent-News: Antwerp officials await Ohio Supreme Court ruling on cameras By PETER GREER [email protected] ANTWERP -- Antwerp village officials are awaiting word of a ruling by the Ohio Supreme Court that could go a long way toward reducing red light and speeding violations at the town's busiest intersection. In November, village council heard from Joe Moore of RedFlex Traffic Systems, a Scottsdale, Ariz., company that has installed and operated cameras that record drivers violating traffic laws in 18 states. Antwerp has dealt with for decades -- particularly at the U.S. 24-Ohio 49 intersection. http://www.crescent-news.com/news/article/1693691
June 20, 200717 yr From the 6/19/07 Chillicothe Gazette: IMAGE: Shown is a sample violation notice that would be mailed to drivers who run a red light in Chillicothe should the city approve red light camera use. Frank Robertson/Gazette Red light cameras may be in future By LOREN GENSON Gazette Staff Writer Those who run red lights in Chillicothe may soon be monitored by cameras - the kind that allow law enforcement to issue tickets through the mail. City council members Monday reviewed the capabilities of Redflex Traffic Systems Inc. to monitor accident-prone intersections within the city limits. According to Joe Moore, a customer service manager with the company, Chillicothe could benefit from the installation of cameras at 10 intersections that would take digital images of red light runners and allow law enforcement to mail out tickets. http://www.chillicothegazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070619/NEWS01/706190302/1002/rss01
June 21, 200717 yr From the 6/20/07 Blade: Perrsyburg man files $3M lawsuit over red-light cameras BOWLING GREEN - A Perrsyburg man filed a class-action lawsuit this week in Wood County Common Pleas Court against the city of Northwood, its police department, and the Scottsdale, Ariz., company that installed and maintains the red-light and speed cameras in Northwood. David A. Czech, on behalf of himself and more than 20,000 others who have been caught by the cameras and issued tickets, claims Northwood and Redflex Traffic Systems Inc. are using an unconstitutional ordinance to extort money from them. http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070620/NEWS02/706200410/-1/NEWS
July 6, 200717 yr From the 7/5/07 ABJ: Justices to hear arguments on traffic cameras Woman's challenge of Akron program's constitutionality to go before Ohio court Beacon Journal staff report The Ohio Supreme Court will hear lawyers' arguments Sept. 18 in an Akron woman's challenge of automated traffic speed and red-light camera enforcement systems around the state. Akron lawyer Warner D. Mendenhall, who filed the lawsuit on behalf of his wife, Kelly, and other lawyers representing Ohio citizens, will have 15 minutes to tell the justices why the cameras should be declared illegal. http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/news/17457455.htm?source=rss&channel=ohio_news
February 1, 200817 yr Red light cameras OK to enforce laws, high court rules By Laura A. Bischoff Staff Writer Thursday, January 31, 2008 COLUMBUS — Cities, such as Dayton and Springfield, are allowed to use red light cameras to enforce traffic laws, the Ohio Supreme Court ruled Thursday in a 7-0 decision. The court said an Ohio municipality does not overstep its authority under "home rule" provisions in the state constitution when it creates an automated traffic enforcement system, as long as the city doesn't alter any statewide traffic provisions. http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/01/31/ddn013108camerasweb.html
April 28, 200916 yr Legislation introduced to ban red light cameras Dayton Daily News By Anthony Shoemaker | Wednesday, April 22, 2009, 05:22 PM State Rep. Courtney Combs, R- Hamilton, introduced legislation on Wednesday, April 22, that would prohibit the use of red light cameras by Ohio State Highway Patrol, counties and townships. “The companies with contracts to install and maintain the red light cameras in Ohio are making millions off Ohio citizens and on top of that the money is being taken out of state,” Combs said. “It is time to put a stop to the invasion of our privacy and having big brother looking over our shoulders.” http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/ohiopolitics/entries/2009/04/22/legislation_introduced_to_ban.html
May 21, 201015 yr Red light cameras have been proven to increase accidents at these intersections. It increases the probability of a rear-end incident, and various jurisdictions (e.g. Steubenville, Oh.) were caught messing with the yellow-light intervals to increase the numbers of red-light "runners." Other cities, namely in Maryland, use speed-cameras on roadways designed for say, 45 MPH but signed as 35 MPH purely for revenue generation.
June 23, 201014 yr The cash grab in northern Virginia is back on! I like how the Arlington police department is not aware of the study performed by the Virginia Transportation Research Council, but cites its own studies. Too bad it cannot remember what those studies were... EDITORIAL: Rebooting the red-light-camera cash grab Northern Virginia revives deadly ticket program By the Washington Times, June 21, 2010 Northern Virginia's streets are set to become more dangerous as a new law takes effect enhancing the profitability of red-light-camera schemes. The robotic ticket machines are already flashing in Arlington and Alexandria, but Arlington next month will become the first northern jurisdiction to issue tickets. Based on the program's dismal results from 1999 to 2005, there will be more people, not fewer, in area hospitals and more cars in body shops. Take the intersection of Lee Highway and Lynn Street, where a machine once again will send traffic citations through the mail. According to the Virginia Transportation Research Council (VTRC), the total number of accidents jumped by a third when the camera went live a decade ago - including a 21 percent increase in right-angle collisions. They weren't just fender-benders, either, as the number of injuries climbed 14 percent. That intersection was one of the better performers. Adding the rest of Arlington's camera-monitored intersections, rear-end accidents soared 139 percent overall. Red-light-running crashes jumped 159 percent. Red-light-running crashes involving an injury increased 65 percent. Angle crashes increased 53 percent. All types of injury crashes increased 89 percent. Total crashes increased 65 percent. There was no decrease in any type of accident studied. VTRC's analysis took advantage of the most sophisticated techniques to adjust for the influence of all relevant factors, including traffic volume. Over the same period, accidents at camera-free control intersections dropped.
October 27, 201113 yr Red-light traffic camera deals under scrutiny By Larry Copeland, USA TODAY Local governments hungry for revenue are signing contracts with red-light camera companies that put profit over traffic safety, according to a new study by a national public interest advocacy group. Some contracts restrict police from doing things like lengthening the yellow signal and leave taxpayers holding the bag if the contracts are terminated early, says the report from the U.S. Public Interest Research Group, the federation of state public interest research groups. "The most problematic contracts require cities to share revenue with the camera vendor on a per-ticket basis or through other formulas as a percentage of revenue," the group says. "In other words, the more tickets a camera system issues, the more profit the vendor collects." Read more at: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2011-10-26/red-light-camera-deals/50943554/1
July 27, 20177 yr Restrictions on red-light, speed cameras unconstitutional, Ohio Supreme Court rules http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/07/ohios_restrictions_on_red-ligh.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 27, 20177 yr And right after the decision, State Rep. Bill Seitz, a Cincinnati Republican, says there are "other tools in the tool kit" the Legislature can use when it reconvenes in September. Seitz says the Legislature could offset collections from cameras by reducing amounts cities and villages receive through the state’s local government fund. He says the Legislature "will take the profit out of policing for profit" and that the victory for cities and villages will be short-lived. :roll: http://www.wcpo.com/news/government/state-government/ohio-state-government-news/ohio-senator-promises-payback-for-cities-using-traffic-cameras "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
July 27, 20177 yr Restrictions on red-light, speed cameras unconstitutional, Ohio Supreme Court rules http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/07/ohios_restrictions_on_red-ligh.html Everyone hates red-light cameras, but at least it's a win for cities and their ever eroding home rule authority.
July 27, 20177 yr This is a shame the city of Dayton took it this far. While they may violate the home rule statute, as a city leader who supports this, they should realize all the individual rights of the motorists they violate. Regardless, it is going to be a short lived victory for them and I hope the legislature comes down even heavier handed to ban such use statewide with no exceptions.
July 27, 20177 yr It's not about the law breaking, it's about having to be issued a citation by a person rather than a robot.
July 27, 20177 yr ^ I fail to see the distinction. You break the law, you get a citation. Speeding and running red lights are dangerous and driving is a privilege.
July 27, 20177 yr There is no individual right to break traffic laws. It is the right to confront your accuser. If you challenge a speeding ticket, the cop has to appear in court or else it gets dismissed. WIth traffic cameras, you have no ability to confront your accuser. That is a constitutional violation first and foremost. Bottom line, this is a losing battle for the cities, they just need to back down. THis has nothing to do with public safety, it is all about raising revenue. The city of Dayton is the worst at bilking fines from their citizens. Most other Ohio cities are not to the level Dayton is. Regulating speed and safe roads can be accomplished in other ways without violating individual rights.
July 27, 20177 yr ^ I fail to see the distinction. You break the law, you get a citation. Speeding and running red lights are dangerous and driving is a privilege.
July 27, 20177 yr There is no individual right to break traffic laws. It is the right to confront your accuser. If you challenge a speeding ticket, the cop has to appear in court or else it gets dismissed. WIth traffic cameras, you have no ability to confront your accuser. That is a constitutional violation first and foremost. Bottom line, this is a losing battle for the cities, they just need to back down. THis has nothing to do with public safety, it is all about raising revenue. The city of Dayton is the worst at bilking fines from their citizens. Most other Ohio cities are not to the level Dayton is. Regulating speed and safe roads can be accomplished in other ways without violating individual rights. Other than DUI speeding is the number 1 killer of people in auto accidents. Excuse me if you want a constitutional right to be a menace to society.
July 27, 20177 yr You realize that ISPs and governmental agencies are monitoring our phone calls, website visits, etc., right? And if the US government finds a website that's hosting child porn or pirated movies or some other illegal content, they're going to check the visitor logs and find the IP addresses of the people who have accessed that site, and go after them for breaking the law, right? So... how are red light cameras any different? Let's say that you have a red light camera that simply generates a log of every car that run a red light, along with a video of them doing it. Once a day, a police officer logs into that system, and issues a ticket to each of the drivers that ran a red light. How is that any different? Obviously the severity of the crime is different... but technically speaking, how it any different? If you have been logged in a database as having broken a law, and we have video to back it up, why shouldn't the police be able to issue you a ticket?
July 27, 20177 yr There is no individual right to break traffic laws. It is the right to confront your accuser. If you challenge a speeding ticket, the cop has to appear in court or else it gets dismissed. WIth traffic cameras, you have no ability to confront your accuser. That is a constitutional violation first and foremost. Bottom line, this is a losing battle for the cities, they just need to back down. THis has nothing to do with public safety, it is all about raising revenue. The city of Dayton is the worst at bilking fines from their citizens. Most other Ohio cities are not to the level Dayton is. Regulating speed and safe roads can be accomplished in other ways without violating individual rights. Other than DUI speeding is the number 1 killer of people in auto accidents. Excuse me if you want a constitutional right to be a menace to society. No, terrible driving skill combined with impatience and pettiness is the #1 killer of of people in auto accidents. But that's not a checkbox on a ticket. As long as someone can fog a mirror we give them a license and then wonder why people act so petty behind the wheel such as being too bored to stop at a light.
July 27, 20177 yr Speed cameras I don't mind as much (assuming it's not a Linndale-style speed trap where the municipal speed limits slow down for the express purpose of giving out more tickets), but the red-light cameras scare the s**t out of me. Do they take photos the instant the light turns red? It's one thing to blow a clearly-red light but I can't think of anywhere that I've driven where people might still be in the intersection completing a left turn when the light switches over to red. If we want to be making streets safer, design them so that you don't encourage people to make traffic violations in the first place. ^Agreed that we need to be better at educating our drivers in the first place. If people view driving as a privilege and a big responsibility instead of "freedom" and some sort of birthright, a lot of the nonsense I see on a daily basis would go away immediately. “To an Ohio resident - wherever he lives - some other part of his state seems unreal.”
July 27, 20177 yr Especially when they shorten the yellows to generate more revenue. Longer yellows = more safety (to a point where they makes phases too long and people who are stopped start snapping from impatience) but shorter yellows = more revenue. Guess which become more popular once red light cameras go up?
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