On 9/6/2019 at 1:53 PM, Terdolph said:

La Collina looks nice.  The others are horrific.

I’m happy that we’re getting the density over there. In the end, they all mesh together. 

Plastic grapes!  Plastic grapes everywhere!

I don't understand the love for La Collina. It's a nice facade slapped onto a really cheap-looking box, and the two-story vinyl tumor is terrible. Although I guess it blends in with all of the other ugly vinyl houses north of Mayfield. 

5 minutes ago, BigDipper 80 said:

I don't understand the love for La Collina. It's a nice facade slapped onto a really cheap-looking box, and the two-story vinyl tumor is terrible. Although I guess it blends in with all of the other ugly vinyl houses north of Mayfield. 

You are so right about the siding on La Collina.  Cannot understand how that got pass Design Review.  Also not crazy about the side elevations.

 

I really do like Quattro, especially it's entry way and front façade.  Hope it sells out quickly but they are pretty pricey.  I am sure they are hoping for a run on the place by UH doctors.

3 hours ago, Htsguy said:

You are so right about the siding on La Collina.  Cannot understand how that got pass Design Review.  Also not crazy about the side elevations.

 

I really do like Quattro, especially it's entry way and front façade.  Hope it sells out quickly but they are pretty pricey.  I am sure they are hoping for a run on the place by UH doctors.

Expensive as it may be, offerings in the neighborhood are becoming even more expensive like the pair of new homes to be built on E 124th place. One's being sold for 899k and the other 889k.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1932-E-124th-Pl-B-Cleveland-OH-44106/2082865195_zpid/

14 minutes ago, tykaps said:

Expensive as it may be, offerings in the neighborhood are becoming even more expensive like the pair of new homes to be built on E 124th place. One's being sold for 899k and the other 889k.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1932-E-124th-Pl-B-Cleveland-OH-44106/2082865195_zpid/

Even more amazing are the asking prices for some ugly chopped up houses with vinyl siding.

On 9/6/2019 at 10:18 AM, marty15 said:

I wouldn’t expect any improvement. What’s the incentive for the building owner? Parking is a premium over there, and it’s covered. I’m sure he’s already getting top dollar for those spaces. 

Is the parking garage the same owner as the apartment building?.

On 9/9/2019 at 12:14 PM, Htsguy said:

Even more amazing are the asking prices for some ugly chopped up houses with vinyl siding.

New construction in Little Italy on 123rd not as pricy $439,900

^ Where on E 123 are those?

15 minutes ago, Pugu said:

^ Where on E 123 are those?

 

Just type the address into Google....

 

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS780US780&sxsrf=ACYBGNRWx-xBQZRxu2Njy-znxBEahbHMcg%3A1569433640430&ei=KKiLXbLwGc-vggfQ4JWQCA&hotel_occupancy=&q=1898+East+123rd+Street%2C+Cleveland%2C+OH&oq=1898+East+123&gs_l=psy-ab.3.0.38.308933.312524..315296...0.4..0.216.1488.2j10j1......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0i273j0j0i131j35i39j0i67j0i22i30.Ua0iuGGYr6w

Anyone else notice that the stretch of Mayfield from 123rd going east up the hill has become largely vacant?  With the density in that neighborhood, I’d think they’d have no problem filling up storefronts. 

What happened to the big plans for the block where Riccardi's (etc.) was?

1 hour ago, marty15 said:

Anyone else notice that the stretch of Mayfield from 123rd going east up the hill has become largely vacant?  With the density in that neighborhood, I’d think they’d have no problem filling up storefronts. 

 

I walk by this everyday to work and class. It seems like there is some stuff behind the scenes going on it one of the storefronts, but yes I agree that it is pretty vacant in some spots. 

 

I am really excited to see what goes in the retail portions of La Collina, and I hope it has more utility value for the residents of the neighborhood than another expensive restaurant.

2 hours ago, marty15 said:

Anyone else notice that the stretch of Mayfield from 123rd going east up the hill has become largely vacant?  With the density in that neighborhood, I’d think they’d have no problem filling up storefronts. 

There's a gelato store going in at 12407 Mayfield Rd

And the old Primo Vino restaurant property (12511 Mayfield) was bought a year ago by WXZ RESIDENTIAL GROUP/PV, LLC. 

I keep wondering when the Primo Vino project is going to start.  I think it was actually purchased a couple of years ago by WXZ and was probably in the works even before the purchase so it has been a while.  WXZ is doing a small but expensive project across the street (Via 126)-as well as College Club up the hill in Cleveland Hts.-so many that is their focus now.

Exterior work beginning on Mayfield Station apartment development. 

 

Its final look will be interesting from the station. 20 units will have balconies overlooking the tracks. (Link: https://www.mayfieldstation.com/)

On 9/25/2019 at 2:44 PM, marty15 said:

Anyone else notice that the stretch of Mayfield from 123rd going east up the hill has become largely vacant?  With the density in that neighborhood, I’d think they’d have no problem filling up storefronts. 

 

One dark spot around that area that's always bugged me is the empty Mayfield Theater on the south side of Mayfield Road between La Collina (to the east) and Corbo's bakery and the Mia Bella restaurant (to the west).  That building has been vacant as long as I remember.  As an old theater, I'm sure it's a tricky redevelopment project but the land it's sitting on has got to be pretty valuable at this point.

Edited October 17, 20195 yr by Down_with_Ctown

On ‎10‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 12:42 AM, NorthShore647 said:

Exterior work beginning on Mayfield Station apartment development. 

 

Its final look will be interesting from the station. 20 units will have balconies overlooking the tracks. (Link: https://www.mayfieldstation.com/)

I wonder if that corner unit on Mayfield is a duplex?  If it is it is not shown on their website as available for rent.

Just noticed these signs in many storefronts along Mayfield and Murray Hill for the first time today. Increasing backlash from locals opposed to new neighborhood development. The proprietor of one gallery/boutique caught me snapping a pic, and came out to talk. He called Quattro “an abomination”, and said the city is “forcing new development down our throats”. How big of a factor will this growing coalition of resistance be going forward? 

What was demolished for Quattro? I don’t recall.

Nothing. Typical BS from people that want Cleveland to stay in the 1950’s.

Should have asked the proprietor whether that means preserving all the vinyl siding and chopped up single family houses.

42 minutes ago, w28th said:

Nothing. Typical BS from people that want Cleveland to stay in the 1950’s.

 

Corbo's Golden Bowl was demolished, then it was a parking lot before the development was planned.  If anyone wanted the old place to be preserved, they could have bought it when the Corbos couldn't keep it open.

 

Does "neighborhood history" also include the long boarded up Mayfield Theater with graffiti on the front?  Maybe they should focus their energy on attracting uses to the abandoned properties that are worthy of saving rather than fighting new development on empty lots.

Edited October 20, 20195 yr by jam40jeff

45 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

Should have asked the proprietor whether that means preserving all the vinyl siding and chopped up single family houses.

 

Wonder if that means they don't want the new residents to come and patronize their shops and restaurants?

1 hour ago, jam40jeff said:

 

Corbo's Golden Bowl was demolished, then it was a parking lot before the development was planned.  If anyone wanted the old place to be preserved, they could have bought it when the Corbos couldn't keep it open.

 

Does "neighborhood history" also include the long boarded up Mayfield Theater with graffiti on the front?  Maybe they should focus their energy on attracting uses to the abandoned properties that are worthy of saving rather than fighting new development on empty lots.

You’re thinking of La Collina. But yeah, I believe there was a bad fire at Corbo’s before they eventually demolished it. Quattro is over on Random.

^ This has been my perennial struggle with LI. It’s a great place, but so many of the businesses and residents seem to be so insular and backwards. It definitely stops me from going there and spending money more often. 

Everyone on this board loves to bash the residents of little Italy for some reason. Just remember if it wasn’t for these long timers keeping the neighborhood safe and relatively well maintained none of these developments would be taking place. If that isn’t the case these new apt towers would going up down the road in East Cleveland - tons of available land there and within walking distance of Uptown 

1 hour ago, marty15 said:

You’re thinking of La Collina. But yeah, I believe there was a bad fire at Corbo’s before they eventually demolished it. Quattro is over on Random.

 

Sorry, you're right.  I'm not sure what I was thinking as I just walked past Quattro the other day.  Yes, nothing was torn down for that and what an improvement that is to the street.

 

Are there any plans for the makeshift parking garage on the same side of Random?  Or is that another "historic treasure" of Little Italy that can't be modified?

Edited October 21, 20195 yr by jam40jeff

This IS a development thread. LI residents anti new development fervor is well documented. If you have to just say “for some reason” you’re not really reading what posters are saying. You should also thank Case students and all Clinic and UH residents for renting from all the “long time residents” who collect their rental payments from their homes in Mayfield. 

Edited October 21, 20195 yr by marty15

29 minutes ago, Pigmeat said:

Everyone on this board loves to bash the residents of little Italy for some reason. Just remember if it wasn’t for these long timers keeping the neighborhood safe and relatively well maintained none of these developments would be taking place. If that isn’t the case these new apt towers would going up down the road in East Cleveland - tons of available land there and within walking distance of Uptown 

Longtime Urban/Skyscraper enthusiast, longtime lurker, first time poster. I'm all for density & creating an NYC/Chicago vibe wherever it makes sense, as I believe those to be healthy urban environments we should attempt to emulate for our own sustainability. But that said, there are exceptions. 

This may not make me any friends, but I agree with Pigmeat. The people of Little Italy built that neighborhood over the course of decades & generations. Maybe it's the Italian in me, but I respect that. To some extent, their concerns have to be valid. Also, I'd like to leave this excerpt on New York City's Little Italy neighborhood for you guys to take in:

 

"Prior to 2004, several upscale businesses entered the northern portion of the area between Houston and Kenmare Street. Tonelli said "Real-estate prices zoomed, making it even tougher for the old-timers—residents and businesspeople alike—to hang on."[4] After the September 11 attacks in 2001, areas below Houston Street were cut off for the rest of the fall of 2001. The San Gennaro feast, scheduled for September 13, was postponed. Business from the Financial District dropped severely, due to the closure of Park Row, which connected Chinatown and the Civic Center; as a result, residents in Little Italy and Chinatown suffered. Tonelli said the post-9/11 events "strangely enough, ended up motivating all these newfangled efforts to save what's left of the old neighborhood."[4]

In 2004 Tonelli said "Today, Little Italy is a veneer—50 or so restaurants and cafés catering to tourists, covering a dense neighborhood of tenements shared by recent Chinese immigrants, young Americans who can't afford Soho, and a few remaining real live Italians."[4] This sentiment has also been echoed by Italian culture and heritage website ItalianAware. The site has called the dominance of Italians in the area, "relatively short lived." It attributes this to the quick financial prosperity many Italians achieved, which afforded them the opportunity to leave the cramped neighborhood for areas in Brooklyn and Queens. The site also goes on to state that the area is currently referred to as Little Italy more out of nostalgia than as a reflection of a true ethnic population.[8]"

 

There are many areas of town that I'm heavily in favor of gentrifying, my native St. Clair/Superior among them. Little Italy is not one of those areas. 

4 minutes ago, ArtDecoSquirrel said:

Longtime Urban/Skyscraper enthusiast, longtime lurker, first time poster. I'm all for density & creating an NYC/Chicago vibe wherever it makes sense, as I believe those to be healthy urban environments we should attempt to emulate for our own sustainability. But that said, there are exceptions. 

This may not make me any friends, but I agree with Pigmeat. The people of Little Italy built that neighborhood over the course of decades & generations. Maybe it's the Italian in me, but I respect that. To some extent, their concerns have to be valid. Also, I'd like to leave this excerpt on New York City's Little Italy neighborhood for you guys to take in:

 

"Prior to 2004, several upscale businesses entered the northern portion of the area between Houston and Kenmare Street. Tonelli said "Real-estate prices zoomed, making it even tougher for the old-timers—residents and businesspeople alike—to hang on."[4] After the September 11 attacks in 2001, areas below Houston Street were cut off for the rest of the fall of 2001. The San Gennaro feast, scheduled for September 13, was postponed. Business from the Financial District dropped severely, due to the closure of Park Row, which connected Chinatown and the Civic Center; as a result, residents in Little Italy and Chinatown suffered. Tonelli said the post-9/11 events "strangely enough, ended up motivating all these newfangled efforts to save what's left of the old neighborhood."[4]

In 2004 Tonelli said "Today, Little Italy is a veneer—50 or so restaurants and cafés catering to tourists, covering a dense neighborhood of tenements shared by recent Chinese immigrants, young Americans who can't afford Soho, and a few remaining real live Italians."[4] This sentiment has also been echoed by Italian culture and heritage website ItalianAware. The site has called the dominance of Italians in the area, "relatively short lived." It attributes this to the quick financial prosperity many Italians achieved, which afforded them the opportunity to leave the cramped neighborhood for areas in Brooklyn and Queens. The site also goes on to state that the area is currently referred to as Little Italy more out of nostalgia than as a reflection of a true ethnic population.[8]"

 

There are many areas of town that I'm heavily in favor of gentrifying, my native St. Clair/Superior among them. Little Italy is not one of those areas. 

While I don’t agree fully with this, I definitely appreciate your perspective!  Definitely some things to think about!

 “The site has called the dominance of Italians in the area, "relatively short lived." It attributes this to the quick financial prosperity many Italians achieved, which afforded them the opportunity to leave the cramped neighborhood for areas in Brooklyn and Queens”

 

This isn’t gentrification. They cashed in and left. Same as in Cleveland.

 

I should also add, you’ll be hard pressed to find any UO’er advocating demolishing ANYTHING of historical value in this city. The 2 recent major LI developments were on vacant land. Not sure why anyone would be against that, unless you’re a surface parking lot advocate.

Edited October 21, 20195 yr by marty15

13 minutes ago, marty15 said:

 “The site has called the dominance of Italians in the area, "relatively short lived." It attributes this to the quick financial prosperity many Italians achieved, which afforded them the opportunity to leave the cramped neighborhood for areas in Brooklyn and Queens”

 

This isn’t gentrification. They cashed in and left. Same as in Cleveland.

I'm not arguing with your stance, because to an extent, you're obviously right. But for every person who packs up and leaves to to newfound financial affluence, another is pushed out for a lack of it.

And I was in New York City at the beginning of September. One of the things that prompted me to research NYC's Little Italy was the startling lack of Italians I saw there. It was a bit surprising. I would definitely say our Little Italy feels more relaxing, intimate, and more culturally genuine.

This is all human nature at work, capitalist American style. Have financial success and buy a larger home with space to raise a family. LI will never be repopulated with Italians, I can’t even imagine how that initiative could be undertaken.

 

I do agree it’s vital to preserve our past and history, but trying to steer or maintain a neighborhood to a certain ethnicity is pretty nonsensical. We don’t live in that world anymore. Nor do I want to live in that environment.

I think the common denominator for Little Italy, University Circle, Tremont, parts of Ohio City, Detroit Shoreway, and places like Lakewood is that they all have a problem with not enough parking for a HOT and GROWING NEIGHBORHOOD that is growing with new redsidents, retail, and restaurants!  So the

"old timers" worry about the few parking lots being redeveloped.

Of course thats why it seems most sites are building extra parking over and above what existed before.

1 hour ago, ArtDecoSquirrel said:

I'm not arguing with your stance, because to an extent, you're obviously right. But for every person who packs up and leaves to to newfound financial affluence, another is pushed out for a lack of it.

And I was in New York City at the beginning of September. One of the things that prompted me to research NYC's Little Italy was the startling lack of Italians I saw there. It was a bit surprising. I would definitely say our Little Italy feels more relaxing, intimate, and more culturally genuine.

I don’t think any Italians are being pushed out of LI for lack of affluence. As has been well documented on this forum, they’ve packed up and left for Mayfield and other suburbs, leaving LI to rot with torn up single family homes filled with poor Case students and decaying vinyl. 
 

It would by like me and my “cohort” retaining my grandpa’s place in Central and opining that the current renters are ruining the “Jewishness” of the neighborhood while we collected our rent checks in Beachwood and Pepper Pike...

This has been the history of immigration and outward migration in America; regardless of the state, city or community. It's what this country is all about.

 

It's most pronounced in cities like New York, Philadelphia, Chicago or Washington, but it has happened and continues to happen in Cleveland as well. Immigrants initially congregate, they then assimilate, become more upwardly mobile, then move to more diverse, less segregated, more affluent communities. You've even seen it within the LGBTQ+ community. Most of what were once considered the "Gay Ghettos;" San Francisco's Castro, Los Angeles' West Hollywood and New York City's West Village have become less homocentric and more culturally and sexually diverse as same-sex relationships have become more mainstream.

 

Even Harlem is no longer an exclusively African-American community, nor is East-Harlem predominantly Latino.

Edited October 21, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

Regarding the signage seen and chatter in Little Italy:

 

Just noticed these signs in many storefronts along Mayfield and Murray Hill for the first time today. Increasing backlash from locals opposed to new neighborhood development. The proprietor of one gallery/boutique caught me snapping a pic, and came out to talk. He called Quattro “an abomination”, and said the city is “forcing new development down our throats”. How big of a factor will this growing coalition of resistance be going forward? 

 

It's primarily related to the Hemingway project @ Cornell and Murray Hill at this point https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/08/controversial-little-italy-apartment-project-approved-by-landmarks-commission.html

 

From the article: The new building would rise on the north side of Cornell Road between Random and Murray Hill roads. It would require demolition of two aging wood-frame houses occupied by five rental apartments. 

 

Here's from social media:

 

The appeal of the Landmarks decision that approved the teardowns and construction of Hemingway’s, 230’ long, 3 story + subterranean parking garage, 44 unit apt. bldg. is scheduled at the Board of Zoning Appeals, on Monday, November 11, 2019 at 9:30 a.m.    
 

Please write/email and please encourage neighbors, friends and relatives to write too! You don’t have to live here to care!

 

We must continue to make our voices heard for appropriate development and historic preservation!

 

Edited October 21, 20195 yr by MuRrAy HiLL

1 hour ago, MuRrAy HiLL said:

Regarding the signage seen and chatter in Little Italy:

 

Just noticed these signs in many storefronts along Mayfield and Murray Hill for the first time today. Increasing backlash from locals opposed to new neighborhood development. The proprietor of one gallery/boutique caught me snapping a pic, and came out to talk. He called Quattro “an abomination”, and said the city is “forcing new development down our throats”. How big of a factor will this growing coalition of resistance be going forward? 

 

It's primarily related to the Hemingway project @ Cornell and Murray Hill at this point https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/08/controversial-little-italy-apartment-project-approved-by-landmarks-commission.html

 

From the article: The new building would rise on the north side of Cornell Road between Random and Murray Hill roads. It would require demolition of two aging wood-frame houses occupied by five rental apartments. 

 

Here's from social media:

 

The appeal of the Landmarks decision that approved the teardowns and construction of Hemingway’s, 230’ long, 3 story + subterranean parking garage, 44 unit apt. bldg. is scheduled at the Board of Zoning Appeals, on Monday, November 11, 2019 at 9:30 a.m.    
 

Please write/email and please encourage neighbors, friends and relatives to write too! You don’t have to live here to care!

 

We must continue to make our voices heard for appropriate development and historic preservation!

 

Thanks for posting this.  I thought the Cornell apartment building was a done deal when it got through Landmarks after the developer substantially modified the plan to address the objection of the community board.  I would have thought it would have never been approved the second time around without the board's support.  Does anybody know what their current position is as well as the councilperson who I also believe was against the original plan.  Wish I knew more about process when it comes to the Board of Zoning appeals.  I would imagine that community voices are indeed part of the appeal consideration under it's review process when considering whether to uphold a variance (or I could be wrong,,,just don't know).

 

 

14 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

Thanks for posting this.  I thought the Cornell apartment building was a done deal when it got through Landmarks after the developer substantially modified the plan to address the objection of the community board.  I would have thought it would have never been approved the second time around without the board's support.  Does anybody know what their current position is as well as the councilperson who I also believe was against the original plan.  Wish I knew more about process when it comes to the Board of Zoning appeals.  I would imagine that community voices are indeed part of the appeal consideration under it's review process when considering whether to uphold a variance (or I could be wrong,,,just don't know).

 

 

I just re-read the article posted by @MuRrAy HiLL.  Does anybody know if this is an appeal of Landmark's original decision to allow demolition and construction or an appeal of any zoning variances that might have been subsequently granted by the city?  The article noted that Hemingway still had to get a few small zoning variances to start construction even after the approval by Landmarks.

Edited October 21, 20195 yr by Htsguy

17 hours ago, roman totale XVII said:

^ This has been my perennial struggle with LI. It’s a great place, but so many of the businesses and residents seem to be so insular and backwards. It definitely stops me from going there and spending money more often. 

 

I lived there for a few years back in the 90's.   I can say that the old-timers almost had a resentment that they were still "stuck" there and their friends and family had long since moved out Mayfield to the burbs.   It made for some bitter old dudes.....

There's been a history of community resentment and old-bitter dudes, dating back to Ralph Locher's administration in 1964 and the beginning of school busing.

Edited October 21, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

Hemingway Development just submitted permits for new construction so it would seem that the NIMBY petition this morning to stop development failed.

EDIT: Nevermind I guess I got my dates mixed up, sorry. They did still submit permits this morning 

Edited November 1, 20195 yr by tykaps

3 minutes ago, tykaps said:

Hemingway Development just submitted permits for new construction so it would seem that the NIMBY petition this morning to stop development failed.

Aren't they going in front of the Board of Zoning appeals on Nov. 11?  Are the permits conditional?  I keep looking for the agenda (probably will be posted after the Nov. 4 hearings( as I am confused as to whether this has to do with an appeal of Landmarks past approval of the project or is in connection with some of the variances they need to start construction (or perhaps both).

1 minute ago, Htsguy said:

Aren't they going in front of the Board of Zoning appeals on Nov. 11?  Are the permits conditional?  I keep looking for the agenda (probably will be posted after the Nov. 4 hearings( as I am confused as to whether this has to do with an appeal of Landmarks past approval of the project or is in connection with some of the variances they need to start construction (or perhaps both).

 

The agenda was posted and the appeal is scheduled for Nov. 11.....

 

10:30 Calendar No. 19-239 through 19-241: Appealing Landmarks Commission Decision regarding 2189-2193 Cornell/ Washington Place Inn Ward 6 Blaine A. Griffin Frank Geraci, Murray Hill of Florence Properties , Steve E. and Quinta M. Tonschock appeal under the authority of Section 76-6(b) of the Charter of the City of Cleveland and Section 329.02(d) of the Cleveland Codified Ordinances from the decision of the City of Cleveland Landmarks Commission rendered on August 22, 2019 to approve a Certificate of Appropriateness sought by Washington Inn Housing for the demolition of two houses 2189 Cornell Rd. and 2193 Cornell Rd. and new construction of an apartment building. (Filed September 23, 2019)

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/bza/agenda/2019/crr11-11-2019.pdf

1 minute ago, KJP said:

 

The agenda was posted and the appeal is scheduled for Nov. 11.....

 

10:30 Calendar No. 19-239 through 19-241: Appealing Landmarks Commission Decision regarding 2189-2193 Cornell/ Washington Place Inn Ward 6 Blaine A. Griffin Frank Geraci, Murray Hill of Florence Properties , Steve E. and Quinta M. Tonschock appeal under the authority of Section 76-6(b) of the Charter of the City of Cleveland and Section 329.02(d) of the Cleveland Codified Ordinances from the decision of the City of Cleveland Landmarks Commission rendered on August 22, 2019 to approve a Certificate of Appropriateness sought by Washington Inn Housing for the demolition of two houses 2189 Cornell Rd. and 2193 Cornell Rd. and new construction of an apartment building. (Filed September 23, 2019)

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/bza/agenda/2019/crr11-11-2019.pdf

Yeah I just checked and saw that.  I might try and attend,

By the way, does anybody have any information on the individuals and company behind the appeal.  Do they have any clout?  Do we know the current position of the Little Italy CDC or the ward councilperson?

Ya im just an idiot and mixed up my dates sorry ?

And in regards to the people: 

One owns the two neighboring properties on Cornell and lives in one. The other two are Random Rd and Murray Hill Rd so the development is almost behind them (literally NIMBY)