Demolition of Primo Vino, to be replaced with Casa d'Angolo

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/agenda/2014/06122014/index.php

 

Cleveland Landmarks Commission

June 12, 2014

 

1. Little Italy Historic District

Casa d'Angolo 12511 Mayfield Road

New construction

 

2. Little Italy Historic District

Primo Vino 12511 Mayfield Road

Demolition

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

^I like it.

Yeah, I dig it, too.

Glad to see some contemporary love on the boards. Dimit better step it up on their multi-family housing. I could easily see Maschke putting some stake into their current lopsided market share and with the moves Maker is making, things could get real interesting in a good way.

Seems like a cool infill project.  I like it.

Construction photos of GCRTA's Little Italy Red Line station shot today:

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=6956.msg711218#msg711218

Condominium project will replace Primo Vino restaurant in Cleveland's Little Italy

 

 

By  Michelle Jarboe McFee, The Plain Dealer 

on June 12, 2014 at 3:16 PM, updated June 12, 2014 at 5:47 PM

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A five-story condominium building will replace the Primo Vino restaurant on Mayfield Road in Cleveland's Little Italy neighborhood, where demolition and construction could start in the spring of 2015.

 

The Cleveland Landmarks Commission voted unanimously Thursday to let architect Robert Maschke and Primo Vino owners Robert Fatica and Carmen Armenti raze the restaurant and replace it with a luxury condo project. The new building, totaling 25,000 to 30,000 square feet, would house three residences above second-floor offices and a street-level restaurant or retail space.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2014/06/condominium_project_will_repla.html

 

 

 

^ Seems like people are really hating on this architecture for LI.

I actually think it will look better than the image is showing.  Really weak rendering.

I personally love projects like this. Modern and contemporary infill, when done to a quality that matches the quality of historic buildings nearby, really emphasizes both the old and the new. And yeah, those renderings are pretty poorly done and I imagine that in person it'll look really cool. It seems like some pretty modern stuff is starting to spring up in older neighborhoods around Cleveland which I'm really liking. Hopefully more projects like this continue happening.

My only complaint is that I wished this would have been built on the site of the recently demolished Club Corbo.

My only complaint is that I wished this would have been built on the site of the recently demolished Club Corbo.

 

Actually I like it where it is, because it's at the end of the retail strip where Mayfield Road begins climbing toward the Heights ... I understand an apt has been planned for the Club Corbo location, which is great, but I hope it's at least mixed-use since it's more toward middle of the retail strip.  Plus the planned Case d'Angolo units will face off architecturally with the still new-iish Villa Carabelli townhouse complex across the street which will be kinda cool.

^ Seems like people are really hating on this architecture for LI.

 

What people? All positive on here (and this is where it really counts  :clap:).

I actually think it will look better than the image is showing.  Really weak rendering.

That rendering is terrible.  I don't think it will fit in with the architectural integrity of the neighborhood.

I agree, it pays no mind to its surroundings. 

Agreed. It's shockingly out of place and scars the neighborhood.

^I like it.  I stand by that... It's aggressive architecture, no doubt.  Ugly? no... at least not imho... It's certainly an upgrade over Primo Vino (not the restaurant function, but it's appearance), which is just a blank, windowless wall (partially faux brick) with now windows... It's a facade over a very old mixed-use building. 

 

Little Italy lies adjacent to, and is itself, an arts district -- architecture is, in fact, an art form ... Even LI's older buildings are a hodgepodge, so I think Casa d'Angolo will fit right in... And of course, having an upscale, multi-unit condo replacing Primo Vino is a plus.  It only burnishes LI's "hot" status as a place to live.   

That rendering is terrible.  I don't think it will fit in with the architectural integrity of the neighborhood.

I agree, it pays no mind to its surroundings. 

Agreed. It's shockingly out of place and scars the neighborhood.

 

Like I said, I was wondering where these types of comments were hiding.  :wave:

 

Yea, we would want to ruin the "architectural integrity" of the neighborhood.

 

 

 

 

the clamoring to keep Primo Vino as is...has me at a loss for words, so ill resort to pictures,

 

Keep this??

 

 

 

COntemporary architecture briing it on!

oh, waite, its already on

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and this is just finishing up across E 126 street from Primo Vino

 

 

 

Whats shocking is that this seems lost on about 50% of commenters, no matter what forum

Nice photo essay. Pictures are often more convincing than words.

^^Nice work!  Where is the house shown in the last photo?

^^Nice work!  Where is the house shown in the last photo?

 

Give Strap some time, he'll see where it's described. :)

 

BTW, there's more coming......

 

Some infill......

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/agenda/2014/02132014/index.php

 

Cleveland Landmarks Commission

AGENDA - February 13, 2014

 

Little Italy Historic District

1918 East 120th Street

New construction of 2 houses

 

 

 

 

Quietly renovated this building shows exactly how a renovated space can bring in much higher rents! I hope other building owners along mayfield take note! This building is located directly right of Prestis. Look at googlemaps streetview for a before of the exterior.

 

http://cleveland.craigslist.org/apa/4496784609.html

Doh!  I was temporarily blinded by all the pretty pictures.  I guess I understand the resistance people have for this type of architecture here, even if I don't share it. Part of me is sad to see a little bit of the grit washed away, but I'd hate to see some kind of ersatz early 20th century reproduction, which would be just as sterile, but unbearably cheesy (IMHO).  Happy to see the neighborhood organically evolve.

^ Well, you just made me Google "ersatz", so I learned a new word today...Thanks! ;)

 

Cant wait til the E 120 homes are done

 

 

construction update at "The Piscopo" , soon home to Rising star coffee east

 

 

 

 

and here is the cleared out Corbo's site

 

 

 

the clamoring to keep Primo Vino as is...has me at a loss for words, so ill resort to pictures,

 

Keep this??

 

 

 

COntemporary architecture briing it on!

oh, waite, its already on

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and this is just finishing up across E 126 street from Primo Vino

 

 

 

Whats shocking is that this seems lost on about 50% of commenters, no matter what forum

 

You cherry pick to prove your point.  No mention of the other thousand buildings in little italy that represent the neighborhood aesthetic. 

Also, the argument isn't that there shouldn't be new construction or that new builds should look exactly like the other houses.  It is that new buildings should show awareness of place.  geometry, color, height, material and style can be used to achieve this.  I think that some of your examples actually do a good job of fitting in, while achieving contemporary looks.

 

In my opinion, anything below the hill, on mayfield, should be 3-4 stories, with ground-level retail. 

 

Yes i definitly meant to pick examples of contemporary architecture to show how its not something all that rare in LI

atually LI and tremont have a significant amount of this going on.

RE LI...i think the Casa DAngelo bldg will be striking.

 

 

Even a parking lot can be attractive when there's lovely scenery nearby. :P

One of the things that makes an truly urbanized city exciting is the mix of old and new architecture.  The old architecture, esp the narrow streets and the tight configurations (along with the high population density), makes Little Italy exciting.  It's true of ALL similar neighborhoods... Look at Tremont; Look at Ohio City; Look at Detroit-Shoreway... And of course,  look at Chicago, with its brownstone rows, brick "flat" walk-ups, shoe-horned next to ultra-mod flats and apt buildings, ... even a few mid and high-rises, makes the city feel funky and alive -- the old buildings give it character, but the new, sometimes wild, buildings, make it feel alive and contemporary... Under the old, (thankfully) discarded 50s-60s "urban renewal" approach, the idea was to bulldoze older buildings and replace them with blocky new ones... If this was the approach in LI, I'd be dead set against it... But it's not -- the Chicago approach was taken -- [note- that's my term and not meant, in any way, to imply we're we should try to be Chicago, but rather, a unique Cleveland]...

 

Buildings like Casa d'Angolo mixed with the quaint older buildings are, in part, why LI is one of the hottest residential tickets in the region.. And the fact that developers are squeezing more and more new, funky/creative structures like this in this already tight neighborhood -- which will soon get even better transit access -- all the better.

 

... and as Clueless' instructive photo-essay notes, ... look around, this is already in full swing in LI...

 

^^Nice work!  Where is the house shown in the last photo?

 

in this picture, the new home is at the right edge of the photo (you can see the wall and part of the truck)

 

 

 

 

 

edit

this shouldve been in the original post, prior page. THis awesome architecture is coming on strong in LI

 

 

 

 

 

You cherry pick to prove your point.  No mention of the other thousand buildings in little italy that represent the neighborhood aesthetic. 

Also, the argument isn't that there shouldn't be new construction or that new builds should look exactly like the other houses.  It is that new buildings should show awareness of place.  geometry, color, height, material and style can be used to achieve this.  I think that some of your examples actually do a good job of fitting in, while achieving contemporary looks.

 

In my opinion, anything below the hill, on mayfield, should be 3-4 stories, with ground-level retail. 

 

One thing that designers often struggle with is why should they be relugated to designing to a lower aesthetic just because it's already built?

Do you ever hear people say "well that's how we have always done it". Yes, that doesn't mean it's correct and/or proper.

You cherry pick to prove your point.  No mention of the other thousand buildings in little italy that represent the neighborhood aesthetic. 

Also, the argument isn't that there shouldn't be new construction or that new builds should look exactly like the other houses.  It is that new buildings should show awareness of place.  geometry, color, height, material and style can be used to achieve this.  I think that some of your examples actually do a good job of fitting in, while achieving contemporary looks.

 

In my opinion, anything below the hill, on mayfield, should be 3-4 stories, with ground-level retail. 

 

One thing that designers often struggle with is why should they be relugated to designing to a lower aesthetic just because it's already built?

Do you ever hear people say "well that's how we have always done it". Yes, that doesn't mean it's correct and/or proper.

 

But it also doesn't mean that different is better, either.  I'm not saying that's necessarily the case here, but surely a lot of the crap built in the 60s and 70s was done because it was "the new thing" and now we think it ruined the aesthetic of many areas.

 

I think there's too many "starchitects" these days.

But it also doesn't mean that different is better, either.  I'm not saying that's necessarily the case here, but surely a lot of the crap built in the 60s and 70s was done because it was "the new thing" and now we think it ruined the aesthetic of many areas.

 

I think there's too many "starchitects" these days.

 

Sure, to each their own, aesthetic is a personal opinion. One thing you can't argue though is that the contemporary design of MOCA, Uptown and the Med Mart (or whatever it's called) has put Cleveland on the cultural map partly due to their respective designs. That is one thing that developments like Alta House or Avenue District cannot say they've done.

But it also doesn't mean that different is better, either.  I'm not saying that's necessarily the case here, but surely a lot of the crap built in the 60s and 70s was done because it was "the new thing" and now we think it ruined the aesthetic of many areas.

 

I think there's too many "starchitects" these days.

 

Sure, to each their own, aesthetic is a personal opinion. One thing you can't argue though is that the contemporary design of MOCA, Uptown and the Med Mart (or whatever it's called) has put Cleveland on the cultural map partly due to their respective designs. That is one thing that developments like Alta House or Avenue District cannot say they've done.

 

Sure, but not every new building should be aiming to be a MOCA.

But it also doesn't mean that different is better, either.  I'm not saying that's necessarily the case here, but surely a lot of the crap built in the 60s and 70s was done because it was "the new thing" and now we think it ruined the aesthetic of many areas.

 

I think there's too many "starchitects" these days.

 

Sure, to each their own, aesthetic is a personal opinion. One thing you can't argue though is that the contemporary design of MOCA, Uptown and the Med Mart (or whatever it's called) has put Cleveland on the cultural map partly due to their respective designs. That is one thing that developments like Alta House or Avenue District cannot say they've done.

 

To each their own, yes, but we also have to build in the context of good urban design. There are things we know now a days about how to build buildings that feel safe, that feel lively, that attract people. Things like verticle lines, people-oriented ornamentation, fine details, windows, good materials and lighting. The current building certainly is terrible for that. This new building is better, but still falls short in some very important categories. The side street wall is flat, uninteresting and will feel cold/lonely for a pedestrian. And what looks like a below grade patio with an overhang is going to be extremely dark, wet and cold.

http://www.city.cleveland.oh.us/CityofCleveland/Home/PressRelease/prdetail?id=16064

 

From: Mayor’s Office of Capital Projects

 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

June 16, 2014

**Traffic Advisory**

Murray Hill Brick Restoration Project

 

CLEVELAND – On Tuesday, June 17, 2014, weather permitting work will begin on the Murray Hill Brick Restoration Project. This Project extends along Murray Hill Road from Mayfield Road to Adelbert Road.

 

During this project, one-way traffic, heading northeast, will be maintained on the east side of Murray Hill Road from Adelbert Road to Cornell Road.

 

Southwest traffic will be detoured, heading north, on Cornell Road, then west on Circle Drive and south on Adelbert Road to Murray Hill Road.

 

Access to all businesses, residences and side streets will be maintained during construction. On-street parking will not be allowed during this phase of the project.

 

The project includes roadway base repair, removal and replacement of existing asphalt, and brick repairs. Project completion is scheduled for July 31, 2014. Expect additional traffic notices as work progresses.

 

###

 

ROAD CONSTRUCTION INVARIABLY PRESENTS HAZARDS TO THE PUBLIC. WE URGE ALL TRAVELERS TO USE CAUTION IN THE CONSTRUCTION ZONES. YOUR SAFETY AND THE SAFETY OF OUR WORKERS ARE OUR GREATEST CONCERN.

Saw this on terrycoyne.com. Doesn't say where it is but looks like it's next to the new UC transit station. Anyone know if there is actually something going up there or is it just spec?

Saw this on terrycoyne.com. Doesn't say where it is but looks like it's next to the new UC transit station. Anyone know if there is actually something going up there or is it just spec?

300 Parking spaces???

Whoa buddy.  I am definitely not digging what looks like street side parking on Mayfield. 

 

Also, $30 a square foot triple net is freaking high for Cleveland.  Class A in downtown usually hovers a bit above $21 a square foot.

 

If this project is real and gets financed it tells us a lot about how far this market has come.  The fact that a lender will underwrite a loan on a spec office building charging such high rents in a Cleveland neighborhood (albeit LI/UC) shows that banks are starting to take Cleveland more seriously.

 

"Brochure" with more detailed info on the project, including a side elevation: http://www.terrycoyne.com/uploads_pdf/COYNE%20REALTY%20LLC_Italy%20Office%20DevelopmentLittle_20101108(8526)%20-%20pdf_postcard1.pdf

Wow, glad to see the development but putting a driveway in front of the station entrance and then parking across the driveway from the station entrance is a no-no in transit-supportive design. A better option is to shift the parking spaces farther northward, move the driveway where the parking spaces were and then build a pocket park next to the station entrance. I realize this is just a conceptual rendering, but I'm adding my two cents just in case Terry, his architect or someone like Jennifer Coleman is reading this. :)

That rendering is extremely old so I wouldn't get too excited/worked up over it

That rendering is extremely old so I wouldn't get too excited/worked up over it

 

Yeah, but its new to me. And what else am I going to do with my evening?

That rendering is extremely old so I wouldn't get too excited/worked up over it

 

Approximately how old is it?

Wow' date=' glad to see the development but putting a driveway in front of the station entrance and then parking across the driveway from the station entrance is a no-no in transit-supportive design.[/quote']

 

Its more than a 'no-no' its a major FU to public transit. I'd rather see nothing than this nonsense.

especially when you can easily have parking in the back off of coltman

BTW, its interesting that Coral has put the office component on the back burner for Intesa on the other side of the tracks from this Coyne-owned development. One wonders if Coyne's development had anything to do with that (ie: they're having success in getting financing/leasing). If it didn't, then one has to wonder how viable Coyne's office development is.

That rendering is extremely old so I wouldn't get too excited/worked up over it

 

Approximately how old is it?

I think this idea for the site is a few years old, I remember seeing another brochure that quoted the same $30psf ~3 years ago

On page 7 of this very thread, there is 4 year-old discussion of what I believe is this exact same office project.  Not surprisingly, we didn't much like the site plan back then either.  Hopefully the Mayfield frontage can be developed later, i.e., any surface parking there isn't necessary for zoning compliance.  And if the current zoning actually permits this site plan, once again, shame on the City Planning department.

Saw this on terrycoyne.com. Doesn't say where it is but looks like it's next to the new UC transit station. Anyone know if there is actually something going up there or is it just spec?

 

I like the new office development, but wish it were a little taller.  It has that dreaded suburban-ish, campus look to it -- still, I'll take new offices at that location ... I do concur about not liking the driveway in front of the new RTA station, but I'm just not sure where it would go.

 

QUESTION: wasn't this where the Mayfield Lofts building was to go?  If not, will there still be space for it?  Is that project alive or dead?