June 19, 201212 yr Author That Helsinki transit center is awesome and THAT'S what having a national government that values public transit in its cities will get you. My guess is that kind of facility can only be funded by a national government, and we know where our government's transit priorities lie... (thinking Avon interchange) When I read that, I was actually thinking of this... http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/sns-rt-us-usa-congress-transportationbre85i105-20120619,0,6522212.story EDITED to add the 1910 photo and 1919 subway plan graphics. Here's some background for those not familiar with the close relationship between Public Square and public transit. It's a relationship that goes back more than 150 years. BTW, downtown Cleveland's central business district was mostly west of Ontario to the river before 1900.... Plans for a subway got serious after 1900. The photo below, looking east on Superior toward Public Square in 1910, shows why.... This was one of four downtown subway plans that got "legs" and was the first to be submitted to city voters in 1920. Note the track layout proposed for UNDER Public Square. The only part of the 1910s subway plan that was ever built was the subway under the 1918-built Detroit-Superior bridge. A city-funded bond issue was defeated because city voters thought it should have been a countywide issue. Other reasons for its defeat were high interest rates and the high cost of construction materials in post-war America.... Detail of above showing Public Square area...... The relationship between Public Square and public transit only became more intertwined as Cleveland and its transit system grew. By the 1920s, when Cleveland was the fifth-most populous city in the United States, this is how many streetcar tracks (each line within the street is a streetcar track) converged on Public Square. And not only did streetcars operate every few minutes (Cleveland Railway Co. advertised its frequent streetcar service with: "there's always a streetcar in sight"), but the various interurban rail systems to outer suburbs, farming villages and cities as large as Painesville, Elyria, Canton, Lorain and Akron operated over CRC streetcar tracks into Public Square..... And that made Public Square a natural transit hub, and it was very heavily used as such. It still is today, though obviously not as much as shown here in 1946 in front of Cleveland Union Terminal which was the hub of intercity and commuter passenger trains plus the Shaker Rapid (and in nine years, the Cleveland Transit System Rapid now known as the Red Line)...... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 19, 201212 yr Why can't these be synthesized into an intermodal transit hub facility connected to Tower City? The intermodal hub could be a primary target for TOD (as it should). I know there has been discussion about a new transit hub, or at least I've seen a few references to it but not actually seen the project, but why can't such a project help be a game-changer for Public Square? I also don't understand why if the BRT, which has heightened bus access requirements than the normal city buses, can operate in a slimmed-down and beautified corridor, why do these seriously over-capacity downtown arteries have to remain in a position that dices Public Square like a tomato and prevents a contiguous sense of place? (Sorry, long run on question, but many implied points It seems like RTA's needs for Public Square are very different from the city's, which seems a lot more enthusiastic about generating new ideas for this space. Because all buses from the east have to cross the square. there are 3 east west arteries through downtown prospect, superior and St Clair, superior is the most direct route, and the highest capacity route. although you could in theory eliminate all stops on buses going through the square, the square tower city was designed to pass people from the square into the transit station. using prospect as has been done before has many issues mainly the roof of tower city. Did RTA take the steering wheels out of their buses or something? I don't understand why these large vehicles could not go around Public Square to the south. Really, considering that this area is pretty cramped and offers little room to work with and maintaining RTA access and the goal of a landmark green space seem incongruent, the bus hub needs to go underground it seems. Most European bus terminals were underground in my experience. Helsinki had an excellent model where it was the underground level of their main downtown shopping mall, and also had a metro station, and people could walk across the square to the rail terminal (most visitors usually got horribly lost doing this, so clearly the connection between separate facilities needed re-thinking). Something like this terminal connected to these underground parking bays, which could be positioned east/west if RTA is obsessed with maintaining route horizontality. I like the idea but it would probably be horribly expensive and thus unrealistic. I would love it if we had this though Can't be any more horrifically conceived (financially speaking at least) than BRT, in terms of expensive fixed bus system infrastructure. My point is just that goals for RTA and a better Public Square do not seem congruent. At some point, these goals have to diverge and follow their own paths.
June 19, 201212 yr That Helsinki transit center is awesome You think that's awesome, this is the Kamppi, which is the central mall that the transit hub lies beneath: Hubba hubba.. sorry for the divergence. Back to Public Square.
June 20, 201212 yr Author What do we need a Public Square redesign for? To increase the public's utility of the square? All you gotta do is give away some free ice cream and park a few food trucks in front of the Old Stone Church and WHAM you've got critical mass! Seriously, that's what happened today during the lunch hour. I was on the square today and was blown away by the number of people. And not a Marine among them.... :) "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 20, 201212 yr It wouldn't cost much to put some concrete bollards across the road to close off Ontario where it passes through the square. Then they can worry about improvements and funding over time. The only reason to delay doing so would be to give RTA time to make whatever changes need to be made. Hopefully RTA has the resources to plan for that, at least as a contingency...
June 21, 201212 yr What do we need a Public Square redesign for? To increase the public's utility of the square? All you gotta do is give away some free ice cream and park a few food trucks in front of the Old Stone Church and WHAM you've got critical mass! Seriously, that's what happened today during the lunch hour. I was on the square today and was blown away by the number of people. And not a Marine among them.... :) This is so true ... There's something to be said for higher quality greenspace downtown being a draw by itself (Perk Plaza is a great example), but programming is really what we should be thinking about. Voinovich Park is really lovely but rarely used, despite being right next to several tourist attractions, highway access and a train station. Whiskey Island is lovely, too, and is able to draw tons of people despite bad car access and HORRIBLE PEDESTRIAN / BIKING access ... Not to mention absolutely no downtown access as of yet (well, I guess boat/kayak access). I think at least part of this can be attributed to a marina, a restaurant, a bar, dancing, volleyball.
June 21, 201212 yr When I asked people over at city hall a couple years ago about trying to increase the number of people going down to Public Square during lunch and other times of the day through event programming, they didnt really take the idea well. They basically said its just a place for people to wait for busses. Didnt make me feel excited about the future. Baltimore has a small amphitheater in their inner harbor that people can get scheduled in to use, which draws nice crowds. While I was there, a comic magician was there performing. We stopped by for about 10 minutes and had a nice time. I dont get why something like that cant be done in Cleveland. Found this picture online.
June 21, 201212 yr Very cool. Definitely think we should consider how we can physically program the space with any capital improvements we ultimately do. In the meantime, some of this stuff is just as simple as paying a musician to perform in one of the quadrants at a peak hour. Cooking demonstration. Flash mob costume party. Continuing yoga for the masses. Historical walks. Face painting. Given the paltry activation of the space now, you could easily quintuple non-transit visitors for $100 a week ... And also integrate transit visitors into the fun. UrbanOhioans could feasibly bankroll the whole thing. Haha.
June 21, 201212 yr You dont need to pay even. People will do it for free for exposure and tips. They leave a tip jar of some sort, and have fliers that they can hand out to people as well which is the major thing.
June 21, 201212 yr Author When I asked people over at city hall a couple years ago about trying to increase the number of people going down to Public Square during lunch and other times of the day through event programming, they didnt really take the idea well. They basically said its just a place for people to wait for busses. Didnt make me feel excited about the future. Which is why I've never applied for a job with the city. I'm pretty sure my soul would die if I got a job there, even in the planning department. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 21, 201212 yr ^ It was the planning department that I asked. LOL I even brought up the baltimore example that I posted above.
June 22, 201212 yr My suggestion if you want to get an audience for something like this at city hall is some how get Tracey Nichols involved (she runs the Economic Development department for the Mayor). She's passionate about moving forward actionable items that advance the city's interests. If you can tie in an ED aspect to a project, she'll push it forward, and she's not afraid to step on some toes in the process.
June 22, 201212 yr Isn't there a specific special events position at City Hall? That sits in the Park Department? that seems like a natural fit too.
June 22, 201212 yr My suggestion if you want to get an audience for something like this at city hall is some how get Tracey Nichols involved (she runs the Economic Development department for the Mayor). She's passionate about moving forward actionable items that advance the city's interests. If you can tie in an ED aspect to a project, she'll push it forward, and she's not afraid to step on some toes in the process. She sounds perfect for our boardwalk masterplan! Ha!
June 22, 201212 yr My suggestion if you want to get an audience for something like this at city hall is some how get Tracey Nichols involved (she runs the Economic Development department for the Mayor). She's passionate about moving forward actionable items that advance the city's interests. If you can tie in an ED aspect to a project, she'll push it forward, and she's not afraid to step on some toes in the process. She sounds perfect for our boardwalk masterplan! Ha! Yes....ruthless!
July 23, 201212 yr Public Square traffic study by Nelson Nygaard a strong first step toward a greener downtown by Cleveland's Group Plan Commission One of the great truisms of city planning is that small amounts of money spent early in a design process can have enormous positive or negative effects down the road. That’s what makes it big news — and good news — that a traffic consultant has recommended closing Ontario Street for two blocks as it runs north-south through Public Square. The $120,000 study completed by Nelson Nygaard, a San Francisco consulting firm, is a critical first step in making all of downtown Cleveland greener, livelier, more beautiful and more hospitable to development. A revitalized Public Square could play a completely new role in the life of the city. It could be an inviting refuge that bursts to life on regular occasions with concerts and other public events that are difficult to stage with ease today. The positive effects would likely ripple across the city’s core, from the Warehouse District to PlayhouseSquare, from Tower City Center to the Mall, the city’s rising medical mart and attractions at North Coast Harbor. http://blog.cleveland.com/architecture/2012/06/public_square_traffic_study_by.html
July 23, 201212 yr ^ Thanks for posting, but that article is over a month old and was previously posted on page 36 of this thread.
August 27, 201212 yr Anyone notice some sprucing on PS? They were power washing the fountain this afternoon and some sections of brick are being replaced on the other quadrants.
September 4, 201212 yr It looks like they are doing some pavement work on some sidewalks as well.. It's about time. In preparation of the casino opening, they filled some of the gaps/holes between the concrete and brick with asphalt. :-o Not sure who's bright idea that was. But I walk through PS every morning and hopefully they are doing it right this time around.
September 27, 201212 yr General Electric is donating lighting to Public Square... http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/09/general_electric_donates_energ.html
October 24, 201212 yr Author FYI. From a press release e-mailed on Oct. 17th (sorry, I'm just getting around to my other e-mail address inbox).... Media contact Joseph Nanni: 216-698-2520 [email protected] COUNTY COUNCIL SEEKING MEMBERS TO SERVE ON CITIZENS’ ADVISORY COUNCIL ON EQUITY AND SOLDIERS AND SAILORS MONUMENT BOARD OF TRUSTEES CLEVELAND - Cuyahoga County Council invites members of the public to apply to fill voluntary appointments to the Citizens’ Advisory Council on Equity and the Soldiers and Sailors Monument Board of Trustees. Cuyahoga County Citizens’ Advisory Council on Equity Passed by Council and signed into law by County Executive FitzGerald in August, Cuyahoga County’s Equity Plan calls for the Executive to appoint, subject to Council confirmation, fifteen (15) citizens to advise the County and provide recommendations for actions related to meeting the equity goals set forth in the Equity Plan. Candidates should be prepared to meet on a quarterly basis, and produce a semi-annual report of recommendations for the County. To learn more about the Citizens’ Advisory Council on Equity or to apply for membership, go to: http://bc.cuyahogacounty.us/en-US/advisory-council-equity.aspx. Soldiers & Sailors Monument Board of Trustees Ohio Revised Code section 345.08 provides that the County Council shall appoint the board of trustees of the Soldiers and Sailors Monument. Due to the resignation of a board member, County Council is seeking applicants for the board for a term to expire on November 5, 2015. To learn more about the Monument and the Board, or to apply for the vacant position, go to: http://council.cuyahogacounty.us/en-US/soldiers-sailors-monument-board-trustees-application.aspx. ### "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 7, 201411 yr nw quadrant -- facing off the soldiers & the sailors... Okay, what is that thing giving new meaning to "flipping the bird"?
February 22, 201411 yr ^ are there any renderings? I couldn't find any Dont want this to get lost. But I never saw these renderings of Public Square before. I like it.
February 23, 201411 yr We should probably discuss the PS stuff in the Public Square thread, just to keep it all together: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,6560.msg642820.html#msg642820
February 23, 201411 yr ^ are there any renderings? I couldn't find any Dont want this to get lost. But I never saw these renderings of Public Square before. I like it. Thanks for posting these DM4! I hadn't seen them either. A huge improvement over current conditions to be sure, but I wish there were better north-south pedestrian routes. I'm skeptical the amphitheater thing in the NE corner would really be all that useful, and I see no harm of dividing the lawn with a hardscape pedestrian path. I also wonder if there's an opportunity for more formal concessions. The cafe is great, but with all that acreage, there might be room for something with table service/beer garden/enclosed seating to add more off-hour life to the square.
February 23, 201411 yr I also wonder if there's an opportunity for more formal concessions. The cafe is great, but with all that acreage, there might be room for something with table service/beer garden/enclosed seating to add more off-hour life to the square. Generate revenues, add more life the the square. A no brainer for sure.
February 23, 201411 yr Is Superior cut off in the renderings for a festival of some sort? I thought the latest plans were for only Ontario to be cut off. Has this changed???
February 23, 201411 yr ^I think the favored plan was to keep Ontario SUPERIOR [sorry] open during weekdays, but designing it so it could easily be closed (and programmed) on weekends and special events. EDITED: I meant Superior, not Ontario, and yeah, for buses. Ugh, total post fail there.
February 23, 201411 yr ^Wasn't Ontario suppose to be totally eliminated and Superior kept open but closed for special events.
February 23, 201411 yr Ontario would get closed. Superior would be open only to bus traffic during the weekdays. And I'm pretty sure it would be closed completely on weekends. Lots and lots of work going on behind the scenes to get this done asap.
February 23, 201411 yr I wonder why evergreens are never considered for projects like these. At least a fir or spruce for some color during the winter. Instead we get cold, dead looking trees 8 months out of the year. This would look pretty cool:
February 23, 201411 yr I wonder why evergreens are never considered for projects like these. At least a fir or spruce for some color during the winter. Instead we get cold, dead looking trees 8 months out of the year. This would look pretty cool: Excellent point. The Pacific NW winters feel much milder (I know, not as cold) with the evergreens all over Portland and Seattle. It really marks a difference being surround by green in the dead of winter.
February 23, 201411 yr I'd prefer a design without the elevations. JMO I wonder why evergreens are never considered for projects like these. At least a fir or spruce for some color during the winter. Instead we get cold, dead looking trees 8 months out of the year. This would look pretty cool: 8 months? No need to make our winters any longer than they are. Our leaves are usually not on the ground until late October / early November, sometimes (rarely) not completely shedding until Thanksgiving or early December. They come back in April or early May depending on how quickly Spring sets in. The trees are "cold, dead" 5-6 months.
February 24, 201411 yr Conifers aren't used for urban planting in sidewalks or plazas even in the the Pacific NW. I don't know exactly why, but they don't make good street/urban trees. They're all over in natural parks, unbuilt land, and suburban yards, though.
February 24, 201411 yr One reason at least, off the top of my head, is that they could be a safety issue in Urban areas. I still prefer them and I am sure there is a way to keep them trimmed and up off the sidewalk enough for Evergreens to be safer.
February 24, 201411 yr Also have shallow root systems. Which is a reason they are blown over somewhat easily.
February 24, 201411 yr 8 months? No need to make our winters any longer than they are. Our leaves are usually not on the ground until late October / early November, sometimes (rarely) not completely shedding until Thanksgiving or early December. They come back in April or early May depending on how quickly Spring sets in. The trees are "cold, dead" 5-6 months. All that depends on the trees. We'll get a bunch of Honey Locusts that bloom late (albeit with a nice yellow color) with mediocre coverage because they are cheap and low maintenance. I'm just saying this project needs variety. 5-6 months is half of the year. Some conifers spread around the square would keep a splash of green year round. Plus they would be perfect for holidays.
February 24, 201411 yr Conifers in urban/streetscape settings always end up looking horrible. They don't age well and get ratty. Deciduous trees like london planetree, honeylocust, and hybrid elms are always safe bets and become better with age.
February 24, 201411 yr 8 months? No need to make our winters any longer than they are. Our leaves are usually not on the ground until late October / early November, sometimes (rarely) not completely shedding until Thanksgiving or early December. They come back in April or early May depending on how quickly Spring sets in. The trees are "cold, dead" 5-6 months. All that depends on the trees. We'll get a bunch of Honey Locusts that bloom late (albeit with a nice yellow color) with mediocre coverage because they are cheap and low maintenance. I'm just saying this project needs variety. 5-6 months is half of the year. Some conifers spread around the square would keep a splash of green year round. Plus they would be perfect for holidays. I'm sure whatever they put there will be spruced (no pun intended) up during the winter months with holiday lights and other decorations. They won't look bare and dead.
March 14, 201411 yr Author group plan commission hires director, set to break ground this year on public square revitalization THURSDAY, MARCH 13, 2014 Jeremy Paris, the recently hired Executive Director of the Group Plan Commission, wants to help Clevelanders reconnect with their iconic downtown public spaces. The Group Plan Commission is expected to break ground later this year on the reconfiguration of Public Square, new amenities for the downtown malls, and a bike-ped bridge that will link the mall overlook with North Coast Harbor. If you're skeptical that these big picture projects, which have been dreamed about for years with no action, will get done, well, don't worry; Paris will convince you otherwise. "Cleveland deserves these world class public spaces," he says fervently. "We’ve done an unbelievable job of establishing downtown amenities, and our neighborhoods are increasingly thriving and exciting. Our job is to build the connective tissue, to have public spaces that can weave together these amenities and be gathering places for the city. We’re building on the wave of downtown investment, and I think the city will look and feel different when we get this job done." READ MORE AT: http://freshwatercleveland.com/devnews/groupplancommission031314.aspx "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 14, 201411 yr group plan commission hires director, set to break ground this year on public square revitalization THURSDAY, MARCH 13, 2014 Jeremy Paris, the recently hired Executive Director of the Group Plan Commission, wants to help Clevelanders reconnect with their iconic downtown public spaces. The Group Plan Commission is expected to break ground later this year on the reconfiguration of Public Square, new amenities for the downtown malls, and a bike-ped bridge that will link the mall overlook with North Coast Harbor. If you're skeptical that these big picture projects, which have been dreamed about for years with no action, will get done, well, don't worry; Paris will convince you otherwise. "Cleveland deserves these world class public spaces," he says fervently. "We’ve done an unbelievable job of establishing downtown amenities, and our neighborhoods are increasingly thriving and exciting. Our job is to build the connective tissue, to have public spaces that can weave together these amenities and be gathering places for the city. We’re building on the wave of downtown investment, and I think the city will look and feel different when we get this job done." READ MORE AT: http://freshwatercleveland.com/devnews/groupplancommission031314.aspx Please be true! Especially Public Square. To me that is desperately needed and could be A HUGE Impact on so many things... The WHD Parking lots... Building something on the empty public square lot, Tower City, the May Co. Building... Also I have to wonder what RTA will do during such a big project. Regardless of whether or not the West Side Transit Center is still happening, all the bus stops will be disrupted during construction.
March 14, 201411 yr Could West Prospect be used more? I know they already have several bus stops there and that area does provide slightly better rail connections.
March 14, 201411 yr group plan commission hires director, set to break ground this year on public square revitalization Was there ever an announcement, etc as far as what this "public square revitalization" will involve??
March 14, 201411 yr group plan commission hires director, set to break ground this year on public square revitalization Was there ever an announcement, etc as far as what this "public square revitalization" will involve?? There is a public meeting coming up in the next couple months where more finalized plans will be released by the designer. That's what I understood
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