I saw on the news that Superior would only be left open for bus traffic. RTA needs to just reroute. Keeping superior open, even if just for bus traffic, is a HUGE mistake. It will make it nearly impossible to design a good space when the center is a bus lane.

 

I think it would remain open to bus traffic only during the weekdays. Maybe also close on weekday evenings.

Greater Cleveland Partnership chair Beth Mooney tells Cleveland to get ready for good times

 

 

By Robert L. Smith, The Plain Dealer

April 02, 2014

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio--Smarter city schools, a re-imagined Public Square -- connected to the lakefront -- and an airport again busy with direct flights to places Clevelanders need to go.

 

"Today we are pleased to say that we will soon see shovels in Public Square," she said. "And the lakefront plans are in full development."

 

For her two-year term, Mooney outlined goals that include seeing a new Public Square take shape in downtown Cleveland.

 

The Group Plan Commission is leading a redesign of the city's historic center that calls for an iconic pedestrian walkway from the square to attractions at North Coast Harbor.

 

Mooney said work will begin this year and that a new Public Square should be finished in the summer of 2016. Combined with $3 billion worth of construction projects underway downtown, she said, the new commons will help launch the city into an exciting new era.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2014/04/greater_cleveland_partnership_2.html

 

Connect 'Em All: The Native Clevelander Charged with Making Longstanding Downtown Dreams Come to Life

 

by Vince Grzegorek | April 02, 2014

 

Jeremy Paris moved back to Cleveland in 2012 after eight years working in the Senate in Washington D.C. to take part in that ethereal revitalization of Cleveland we all seem to feel. He eventually landed the role of executive director of the Group Plan Commission — the body that intersects work between the county, city and private organizations — to make that revitalization, you know, concrete. To wit: the Group Plan Commission hopes to, finally, renovate Public Square, better the downtown malls and build a pedestrian bridge from downtown to the lakefront by the Rock Hall and Great Lakes Science Center. All by 2016. How probable is any of that development? Why are those things important? Paris took a few minutes to answer those questions and more.

 

JP:

 

Public Square really is the heart of downtown Cleveland, and we've never had it be the world-class space that can serve the locus of activity around it. It's a connection point between neighborhoods — the Warehouse District, East Fourth, Tower City — but it hasn't lived up to its billing. If you look down on it, it's all concrete and cut into quadrants. The design is to weave it together and give people something they actually want to use. The design firm that's working on it, James Corner Field Operations, did the High Line in New York, which is now the No. 2 most visited space there. And Land Studio is the project manager here working with them. We're still working out dates on when the new round of designs will be shown. I hope it's within the next month or so. One other thing about Public Square: It's proven that investments in public spaces pay off for cities in a million ways, from money to perception. It's worked other places and we're studying those, but we want this to be something that other cities will emulate.

 

http://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/connect-em-all-the-native-clevelander-charged-with-making-longstanding-downtown-dreams-come-to-life/Content?oid=4167876

Greater Cleveland Partnership chair Beth Mooney tells Cleveland to get ready for good times

 

 

I see a lot of stuff in there that was considered forward-thinking in the 1980s.

I propose starting a movement for "Fence War of Public Square" round 2!  It is interesting to know that there was such a strong push (150 years ago!) to close the roads going through Public Square and to create a "great central park.

 

http://ech.case.edu/ech-cgi/article.pl?id=FWOPS

^From the article:

 

"After 5 years of ensuing discussion, the council voted in Jan. 1857 to vacate all intersecting streets at Public Square.  On 24 Mar. the Square was entirely enclosed by a fence, erected at night in order to circumvent any court injunctions that might have been issued. The Square became a popular recreation area, as traffic was obliged to circle it. Opposition continued, especially from the local commercial interests on Superior east of the Square, who felt the fence hindered business activity. Aided by the city's having allowed the fence to fall into disrepair and a street railway company's wanting the right-of-way through the closed streets, in 1867 opponents of the enclosed Square presented city council a petition against the continued blockading of Superior. When a specially appointed committee failed to reach agreement, the council adopted its minority recommendation that the courts should adjudicate all legal issues. Municipal Court Judge Samuel B. Prentiss ruled that Superior Ave. had been dedicated as a continuous street and that the closing was unconstitutional. On 24 Aug. Superior was reopened. Ontario St. soon followed suit, thus ending Cleveland's "great central park."

 

It our be great to see PS (or the malls for that matter) become popular recreation spots. 

 

Also it's interesting the city faced problems with maintenance almost 200 years ago, a grand tradition that continues today...

I can't get excited about this project if Superior remains open. Will be a huge mistake.

I can't get excited about this project if Superior remains open. Will be a huge mistake.

 

What if only a transit corridor ran through it?

I personally think that if just a transit corridor runs through it that will be fine. It just has to be handled correctly. Transit runs through parks all over the world and can actually add another layer of dynamism to the space. It just needs to feel less like a road than it did in the renderings previously shown. One designated lane in each direction for buses running on a street done in pavers which are the same as surrounding walkways with a nice tree canopy and well designed stops could feel like a very integrated part of the park rather than a division through it.

The center of the square needs to be the focal point. Even if superior is transit only, the center would be reserved for road space. The center should have some sort of iconic monument or fountain. It should be a gathering space. Having a road run through not only removes this possibility, it also creates a divided park which will always feel like two separate spaces rather than one.

Not that I don't agree with some of your assessment, I do have one question. Why does the physical center have to also be the focal center? This isn't the case for a lot of incredible spaces and isn't a requirement for having a central focus. Having different types of programming on either side of the road and creating different zones on either side is a site strategy that's often used in other places and can result in a great space.

I suppose streetcars can travel around the perimeter of the square just as easily BRTs do today.

Latest renderings on the Public Square redesign

 

http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2014/04/a_near-finished_plan_for_the_r.html#incart_2box

funnily enough, it looks pretty similar to Burnham_2011's design from '11.

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,6560.msg550322.html#msg550322

Looks more or less like the stuff on LAND Studio's web site we discussed a few weeks ago.  I think we identified a couple possible areas of easy improvement within the basic framework, including providing better north-south pedestrian crossing opportunities and limiting the height of the concert and overlook hill edges to improve visibility.  I'd add to those that I'm not so keen on the statue placements, especially the one on the northern edge of the park, which may end up being a low profile spot if there's no new north-south pathway.

 

Also, might make sense to throw some removable bollards along the edges of the Superior busway to help delineate the area pedestrians needs to be careful in.

 

One under-rated part of this plan is the high quality of materials we'll see if the Commission is able to raise the money. I love the extensive use of real pavers.

 

(EDITED for typos)

I love the plan.

I love the inclusion of an ice rink to make the square family friendly as well as it being a water fountain in warmer weather, and a year round attraction, the narrowing of superior to make it easier to cross and the alterations to the soldiers monument to put more focus on it.

I'm still not sold on any of these.  This is our official city center.  Where commerce, culture, and commuters clash.  Most of these designs remind me of something that would be put in between phases I & II of Crocker Park, not the center of a major city.

 

Has there been any discussion of who would maintain this?  I would not leave such a park to the city.  Hopefully DCP would handle the maintenance?

I like the plan overall and appreciate that they show winter in the rendering!  Most renderings show beautiful sunny spring days and nothing else... I have to ask though- still nothing from RTA on what they plan to do here?

The plan looks alright. The four lane Superior is a killer though. If they have to keep it can they at least cut it down to two lanes? Four lanes is not necessary. Also how will that middle crosswalk work? Will pedestrians always have right of way? Or will there be lights? Seems too large to control with crosswalk signals.

 

I like the plan overall and appreciate that they show winter in the rendering!  Most renderings show beautiful sunny spring days and nothing else... I have to ask though- still nothing from RTA on what they plan to do here?

 

Love the ice skating too! I always thought public square would be a great place for a rink in the winter.

 

Overall I'm okay with this plan, all we need now is to fill in the damn parking lot.

^^^Yeah, I was hoping Litt's piece would have some more info about the status of the roadway design issues, like the outcome of the final traffic studies and RTA' possible routing plans.

 

I'm still not sold on any of these.  This is our official city center.  Where commerce, culture, and commuters clash.  Most of these designs remind me of something that would be put in between phases I & II of Crocker Park, not the center of a major city.

 

Has there been any discussion of who would maintain this?  I would not leave such a park to the city.  Hopefully DCP would handle the maintenance?

 

From the Litt piece, sounds like maintenance would not be part of the city's general-fund parks portfolio:

 

The commission estimates that it will need $60 million in all for three major projects, including the Public Square makeover, enhancements to the downtown Mall and construction of a pedestrian bridge from the north end of the Mall across railroad tracks and the Shoreway to North Coast Harbor and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum.

 

As part of the total, the commission wants to set aside $7 million to $10 million to create a reserve fund for long-term maintenance of Public Square, the Mall and the pedestrian bridge.

http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2014/04/a_near-finished_plan_for_the_r.html#incart_m-rpt-1

The plan looks alright. The four lane Superior is a killer though. If they have to keep it can they at least cut it down to two lanes? Four lanes is not necessary. Also how will that middle crosswalk work? Will pedestrians always have right of way? Or will there be lights? Seems too large to control with crosswalk signals.

 

Am I missing something? Here's from the article:

 

"The project, designed by the leading American landscape architect James Corner, calls for routing automobile traffic counterclockwise around the square, and removing the two blocks of Ontario Street that run north-south through it.

 

Superior Avenue, which runs east-west, would be narrowed in the square from 77 to 44 feet and would remain open to buses, but it could be closed on a regular basis to unify the square for concerts, performances, farmers markets and other events."

 

So Ontario is closed and Superior is narrowed and bus only.

I have mixed feelings.  I definitely see the improvements, but it still doesn't have that "wow factor" to me.  I would describe it as "nice," but it doesn't really increase my desire to visit or hang out there more...which, to me, is what this design needs to absolutely do.

 

What kills this area is the lack of dynamic interactions of storefronts and attractions (just putting European-style tables and chairs doesn't quite work unfortunately...although we definitely need some more). 

 

Having a more visible Soldiers and Sailors Monument is an improvement, but it has always been there almost invisable to most Clevelanders and isn't quite a gamechanger (I do like the colorful lighting elements on the monument!).  IMO this theme of more colorful spot-lighting needs to be hammered much more -- especially on the Federal Building, Society of Savings, 75 Public Square, etc. 

 

How about a temporary 8-story mural (with lighting of course) built along the parking lot side of the square to finally close it off than can be relocated later :).  Or even better yet a huge electronic billboard/tv with news, Cleveland Sports, temperature, promotional videos constantly looping.  Any sort of interactive aspect, the better, even if only on one section of the screen...like where people can post messages or images on the big screen via smartphone (filtered and sensored of course)

 

Anything interesting we can put on the back of the building behind of the Old Stone Church?  Rotating projection of various images, animations at nightime?  That would sure catch my ADD attention span and cause me to stop and watch.

 

Public Square designers may want to look to how colorful some growing Asian cities look at nighttime (I'm not saying we should have that much color, but to see the jaw-dropping power).  Let's get the people of Ingenuity Fest, Cleveland Institute of Art, LeanDog, and LAND Studio all in the same room together.

 

I'm guessing my ideas would at least double the price tag...but hey maybe it can be a Phase II for the aesthetics and interactiveness (since this current proposal seems for reformating and structural).

^You mean the Standard Building and, I agree, I'd like to see some kind of mural on that ugly blank wall behind the OSC... Maybe a temporary/rotating type mural; something akin to what they did on the back of the Landmark Office towers above the Rapid tracks at Ontario-Huron.

So what are some ways to raise the $30million in funds?  Is that a reasonably attainable number?

Millennium Park raised most of their money through corporate sponsorships

 

How about a temporary 8-story mural (with lighting of course) built along the parking lot side of the square to finally close it off than can be relocated later :).  Or even better yet a huge electronic billboard/tv with news, Cleveland Sports, temperature, promotional videos constantly looping.  Any sort of interactive aspect, the better, even if only on one section of the screen...like where people can post messages or images on the big screen via smartphone (filtered and sensored of course)

 

 

 

I am not familiar with Public Square, but if the video board at Fountain Square in Cincy is any indication, it's a good idea.  I was skeptical at first, but since then, it's really something that gets people engaged.  Lots of people hang out on the square and watch Reds and Bengals games.  Heck, in the winter, they even live broadcast broomball games (with amateur commentary) that they do on weeknights on the ice rink.  Having those kinds of things has made FS more like a living room (and I think helped it get a lot of use). 

The Plan is certainly a step forward.  But like Ontario, I still would block Superior all together (please, no "Airplane" jokes...).  I just don't see how allowing smelly, noisy diesel buses through there is going to promote the people-friendly park everyone wants.  Buses can be routed through Prospect and/or Huron Rd as opposed to the Square...

 

Of course, if we were REALLY serious about balancing transit and walkability with street traffic, we would convert the Health Line to LRT, drop it into the Huron Subway on the East and exiting out the Detroit-Superior subway deck to the West with Tower City as the main underground station-stop (utilizing the unused old Shaker Rapid station that still exists)... The current inbound/outbound buses could terminate at the Stephanie Tubbs Jones bus terminal on the East and the WHD on the West... which would not be unlike the plans for the subway in the 1950s.... Good ideas can still remain good regardless if they aren't acted on over the course of decades.

 

This is what Boston did in the 1890s with its streetcars and Boston Commons and the Public Gardens have been beautiful, green people-friendly/ped-oriented public spaces ever since… We could do the same for Public Square… if we were REALLY serious, that is…

 

So what are some ways to raise the $30million in funds?  Is that a reasonably attainable number?

 

The Group Plan Commission and others have been working on various aspects since 2010. I don't think that they are silly enough to think that they could release a design now and then hope that they can raise up to $30 million in 6 months.  The commission consists of 4 working groups-- funding, public engagement, planning & design, and governance. This has been an extremely thorough process. Regarding funding, there are concrete reasons to be very optimistic.

I am going to die on the inside when/if my bus stop gets moved next to the parking lot. Currently wait at the west corner of Ontario/Superior.

^You mean the Standard Building and, I agree, I'd like to see some kind of mural on that ugly blank wall behind the OSC... Maybe a temporary/rotating type mural; something akin to what they did on the back of the Landmark Office towers above the Rapid tracks at Ontario-Huron.

 

Some balconies and windows would be nice!

RANT ALERT!

 

IMHO - Too much hard-scaping to make it an inviting public park. 

Erieview Plaza anyone?  Where are the trees?

 

Also, we're going to make a historic building disappear as part of the budget for this plan?  Shame on the illustrator for that one.

Also, Where will the Teamsters Rigs and Police Bomb Squad park their enormous view-blocking vehicles (so famously on display at every public event on Public Square) for special events?

 

Aesthetics of this important public space always seem lost on the people who produce events on Public Square and it always comes off as a dump.  Especialy for the annual tree lighting ceremony. How will that change when it gets turned into a Potuguese tile inspired fantasy of faux paving and pubic baths for the homeless?

 

Call me a downer, but these are my concerns about this plan.  I'm forever embarrassed by the way this space is programmed.  I never bring out-of-towners with me to events on P.Sq.  Acres of brown resembling all of Cleveland's many surface lots should not be the inspired choice for this park.

 

- Sigh!

It's not a public park, it's a public square. And the renderings and discussion have said that it will be quality pavers, so bad materials is a nonstarter.

 

I'm not really sure what you're rant is about. Are you not happy about the quality of public events there? Or about the space itself? I certainly want them to consider how events would be programmed on this new space (and I really want them to create a 'friends of public square' group whose sole purpose is to enliven the square with events.)

There is a website called www.Clevelandstreetcar.org

 

they propose a Cleveland Streetcar system that replaces 15-16 bus route in downwotn with two streetcar routes on the Broadway and Pearl Road corridors. this would reduce the number of buses in Downtown Cleveland from 1007 buses per day to 439 buses per day Excluding the healthline.

 

 

http://www.clevelandstreetcar.org/where-should-it-go/

 

They also propose a Downtown Circulation loop, The Central Loop is designed to move people to and from major downtown destinations like the Medical Mart and Horseshoe Casino to the 95% of downtown hotels within a 5 minute walk of the Loop. In addition the Loop serves to distribute riders of future streetcar routes throughout Downtown Cleveland. Modeled after Chicago’s historic loop all streetcars would run on the loop and serve as a circulation system. Giving all streetcar riders a one seat ride to all major destinations in downtown Cleveland.

 

http://www.clevelandstreetcar.org/where-should-it-go/downtown-loop/

 

^ a good starting point -- there is nothing wrong with streetcar lines coming in and out of downtown, but a new central loop should be underground and out of the way.

For the region the flexibility of streetcars provide an opportunity for further rail expansion to areas like Beachwood, Lakewood and the Chagrin Highlands at a much lower cost than traditional light rail or heavy Rail.

 

Coming from the Lakewood/CLE border on Madison, I'd personally go out of my way to use the streetcar going down Detroit or Lorain vs. taking the Red Line. And I am a bus-o-phobe...Im sure not the only one. Just get me to Public Square on a route that doesn't depress the hell out of me lol.

 

Folks, we have threads for speculative streetcar discussion - granted there's a gray area here but this thread is specifically for actual construction talk. Thanks!

City Club to host a June 23 forum on the future of Public Square with landscape architect James Corner

 

By Steven Litt, The Plain Dealer

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on May 30, 2014 at 7:00 AM, updated May 30, 2014 at 7:32 AM

 

Cleveland's Group Plan Commission will hold a free public forum at the City Club on Monday, June 23 to seek responses to the latest version of a $30 million plan to revamp Public Square.

 

Nationally respected landscape architect James Corner, who co-designed the renowned High Line Park in New York, will present his vision for the city's historic heart.

 

Doors open at 5 p.m., and the meeting will begin at 5:30. Tickets are free, but reservations must be made in advance through the City Club. About 200 spots are available.

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2014/05/city_club_to_host_a_june_23_fo.html#incart_m-rpt-1

If anyone goes, can someone ask how/if he is influenced by Danial Burnham and the city beautiful movement of last century?

City Club to host a June 23 forum on the future of Public Square with landscape architect James Corner

 

By Steven Litt, The Plain Dealer

Follow on Twitter

on May 30, 2014 at 7:00 AM, updated May 30, 2014 at 7:32 AM

 

Cleveland's Group Plan Commission will hold a free public forum at the City Club on Monday, June 23 to seek responses to the latest version of a $30 million plan to revamp Public Square.

 

Nationally respected landscape architect James Corner, who co-designed the renowned High Line Park in New York, will present his vision for the city's historic heart.

 

Doors open at 5 p.m., and the meeting will begin at 5:30. Tickets are free, but reservations must be made in advance through the City Club. About 200 spots are available.

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2014/05/city_club_to_host_a_june_23_fo.html#incart_m-rpt-1

 

--more retail space available...one cafe is not going to cut it (long lines!) and competition and variety and more leasing is a good thing.

 

--use quality pavers on the entire stretch of Superior to better define the "square"

 

--though the ice rink is cool, the water park is much better suited for the sunnier and roomier mall

 

What do you guys think?

^Have you been to Millenium Park in Chicago?  The Crowne family fountain was originally designed as a pristine art installaion, but it quickly became a mini waterpark and is actually one of the top draws of the park.  It does not have a large footprint.

^Have you been to Millenium Park in Chicago?  The Crowne family fountain was originally designed as a pristine art installaion, but it quickly became a mini waterpark and is actually one of the top draws of the park.  It does not have a large footprint.

 

Neat. Pardon my ignorance, but is Millenium Park anything like Public Square? I've never been. But I have heard that the Mall could be our version of it someday.

 

Speaking of art installations, I'd say PS is ripe for something interesting. The renderings look nice but sort of bland.

City Club to host a June 23 forum on the future of Public Square with landscape architect James Corner

 

By Steven Litt, The Plain Dealer

Follow on Twitter

on May 30, 2014 at 7:00 AM, updated May 30, 2014 at 7:32 AM

 

Cleveland's Group Plan Commission will hold a free public forum at the City Club on Monday, June 23 to seek responses to the latest version of a $30 million plan to revamp Public Square.

 

Nationally respected landscape architect James Corner, who co-designed the renowned High Line Park in New York, will present his vision for the city's historic heart.

 

Doors open at 5 p.m., and the meeting will begin at 5:30. Tickets are free, but reservations must be made in advance through the City Club. About 200 spots are available.

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2014/05/city_club_to_host_a_june_23_fo.html#incart_m-rpt-1

 

wow they got the right guy. if he can do for public square redevelopment what he did for the highline it will be great. of course, a city square and an old rail line are very different, so we'll see, but anyway good to see corner involved. i can't think of anyone better.

 

I have mixed feelings.  I definitely see the improvements, but it still doesn't have that "wow factor" to me.  I would describe it as "nice," but it doesn't really increase my desire to visit or hang out there more...which, to me, is what this design needs to absolutely do.

 

What kills this area is the lack of dynamic interactions of storefronts and attractions (just putting European-style tables and chairs doesn't quite work unfortunately...although we definitely need some more). 

 

Having a more visible Soldiers and Sailors Monument is an improvement, but it has always been there almost invisable to most Clevelanders and isn't quite a gamechanger (I do like the colorful lighting elements on the monument!).  IMO this theme of more colorful spot-lighting needs to be hammered much more -- especially on the Federal Building, Society of Savings, 75 Public Square, etc. 

 

How about a temporary 8-story mural (with lighting of course) built along the parking lot side of the square to finally close it off than can be relocated later :).  Or even better yet a huge electronic billboard/tv with news, Cleveland Sports, temperature, promotional videos constantly looping.  Any sort of interactive aspect, the better, even if only on one section of the screen...like where people can post messages or images on the big screen via smartphone (filtered and sensored of course)

 

Anything interesting we can put on the back of the building behind of the Old Stone Church?  Rotating projection of various images, animations at nightime?  That would sure catch my ADD attention span and cause me to stop and watch.

 

Public Square designers may want to look to how colorful some growing Asian cities look at nighttime (I'm not saying we should have that much color, but to see the jaw-dropping power).  Let's get the people of Ingenuity Fest, Cleveland Institute of Art, LeanDog, and LAND Studio all in the same room together.

 

I'm guessing my ideas would at least double the price tag...but hey maybe it can be a Phase II for the aesthetics and interactiveness (since this current proposal seems for reformating and structural).

 

I'll repeat my sentiment -- the more interactive aspects/attractions the better.

^ Agreed.

 

Surf, the whole of Millenium park is bigger than Public Square, but if you subtract the ampitheater, maybe about the same size.  The "Bean" really called cloudgate, is on the roof of the Park Grille, and its patio becomes the ice rink in the winter, above the patio in this picture is the Crown fountain.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Park

 

 

PS Will never look " complete" until the entire western side of it no longer consists of a vast sea of parking lots.  I don't care what is done, it will never have the right urban feel to it when you look out and can see as far as the eye can.

 

PS Will never look " complete" until the entire western side of it no longer consists of a vast sea of parking lots.  I don't care what is done, it will never have the right urban feel to it when you look out and have an unobstructed view for 9 blocks!

 

PS Will never look " complete" until the entire western side of it no longer consists of a vast sea of parking lots.  I don't care what is done, it will never have the right urban feel to it when you look out and have an unobstructed view for 9 blocks!

Amen!

wow they got the right guy. if he can do for public square redevelopment what he did for the highline it will be great. of course, a city square and an old rail line are very different, so we'll see,

 

And NYC and Cleveland are very different as well.