I keep hearing people state that it needed more grass. I for one think its has plenty of grass. The northern half is all grass (with the most sun exposure). Personally, I would prefer all pavers but that's me. I think the end result is the best of both worlds, something for everyone. Looks great, job well done and money well spent.

 

 

Edited with comment from clev.com:

 

"Too much concrete on the south side of the square. Should have made the splash area grass. Otherwise, looks great!!"

 

The idea of wet grass makes me throw up in my mouth a little.

I keep hearing people state that it needed more grass. I for one think its has plenty of grass. The northern half is all grass (with the most sun exposure). Personally, I would prefer all pavers but that's me. I think the end result is the best of both worlds, something for everyone. Looks great, job well done and money well spent.

 

 

Edited with comment from clev.com:

 

"Too much concrete on the south side of the square. Should have made the splash area grass. Otherwise, looks great!!"

 

The idea of wet grass makes me throw up in my mouth a little.

 

Yeah I think grass is a bit overrated. What I saw with Perk Park was that it took almost two years for people to get accustomed to using the grassy areas.  So I won't be surprised if it takes a bit of getting used to before more people take advantage of it.

 

Should add that from what I've seen of the "wilder" landscaped areas it's looking really great.

^ Respectfully, how does having a bus stop moved just 25-50 yards add up to hundreds of thousands of dollars?  Is there an unbiased study on this.  There is no significant fuel usage increase nor man hour increase.

 

Consider the scale of RTA's operations through the square before construction began and the streets were closed. 33 bus routes were affected by the closures of Ontario and Superior. The least frequent of those routes are the suburban park-n-rides. The most frequent are the routes like the 1, 3, 22, 26, 51, 55, and others which run every 5-10 minutes peak and every 15-30 minutes off-peak. In total, they put 300 buses per weekday (less on weekends) through the square (not including the HealthLine).

 

True, the closed roads may add only 1 minute to each bus route's schedule. But that minute adds up over 300 buses per weekday:

>> 300 weekday buses adding 1 minute each x 255 non-holiday weekdays = 76,500 minutes or 1,275 hours.

>> RTA's cost per service-hour is $130.

>> The cost per year from adding 1 minute to each weekday bus on Public Square is $165,750.

>> Adding in 110 weekend/holiday service-days would surely push that added cost per year above $200,000.

A bus is a bus. It's a very large, heavy, loud, dirty vehicle and they are going to be coming through what now looks like a very tranquil and nice place to be.  I'm reserving judgement because I don't know how frequent they'll be coming through and how much they and the bus stops themselves will effectively separate the two halves of the square. 

 

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I can't believe we would throw the bus system under a bus in favor of downtown tranquility, two words that don't even make sense together.  Nothing against tranquility, but some people need those buses and need them to get through downtown efficiently.  And those people matter.

I was down there this morning with the kids. It's a great space and agree with an above post that it's European in feel. I don't like the idea of buses coming through, but I also see why it's important.

Is it at least possible that the newer clean air buses are put on those routes that come through the square? At least visually, not to mention emissions, the old stock buses on that space would look very wrong.

I can't believe we would throw the bus system under a bus in favor of downtown tranquility, two words that don't even make sense together.  Nothing against tranquility, but some people need those buses and need them to get through downtown efficiently.  And those people matter.

 

More importantly, livable cities need buses.Anything that reduces the utility of public transportation reduces the utility of your city.

 

I was down there this morning with the kids. It's a great space and agree with an above post that it's European in feel. I don't like the idea of buses coming through, but I also see why it's important.

Is it at least possible that the newer clean air buses are put on those routes that come through the square? At least visually, not to mention emissions, the old stock buses on that space would look very wrong.

 

Eventually, all RTA buses will run on fuels that are cleaner than traditional diesel.

I 'm sure we all agree that livable cities need buses and I think we can wait and see how frequently and "bothersome" the buses cutting through the square is really going to be. However, thanks KJP, for your numbers on the additional "minutes" needed for those bus runs and the per-year cost of less than $200,000 in order to create and preserve a truly unified public square.  To me, that's a deal - I'll take it.

I 'm sure we all agree that livable cities need buses and I think we can wait and see how frequently and "bothersome" the buses cutting through the square is really going to be. However, thanks KJP, for your numbers on the additional "minutes" needed for those bus runs and the per-year cost of less than $200,000 in order to create and preserve a truly unified public square.  To me, that's a deal - I'll take it.

 

Like I've said before -- I'm all for running buses around the square as long as someone who benefits from it pays for it. I get angry when civic leaders push transit aside as a nuisance and then ask the transit agency to pay the cost of being pushed aside.

Couldn't the extra minute be adjusted if the lights were timed appropriately around the square as opposed to cutting through the park.  I believe as much time to load passengers on and off cutting through the park equals the same amount of time to go around .

Spent a couple hours down there this afternoon. Absolutely beautiful and was full of people. I was very disappointed though that the fountains/reflecting pool were all turned off and dry. I was really looking forward to that and it would have been a perfect day for them...

I'm concerned the trees aren't being taken care of. The linden (tilia) trees in front of Rebol are half dead. Many of the others don't look great either. Freshly planted trees need water and fertilizer just like anything else, especially the first couple years until they acclimate. This spring has been especially dry.

Does anyone know where the historic cannon that was to be placed near Soldiers and Sailors Monument was placed?Initial plans had it between the two vertical trees north of the monument.  Also, has anyone else noticed that half of the lamp posts surrounding the monument are not working and haven't for some time.

 

The night shots of Public Square from Tower City's webcam are quite nice. When there is a slight breeze the lighting sparkles.

 

The staining of the concrete from the installed wooden benches looks like nothing has been done to correct the issue. I hope the staining can be removed.  Maintenance of this new design should be important.

 

Does anyone know if the proposed "Cracking Art" animals are still to be part of Public Square or was that removed as a location? 

Does anyone know where the historic cannon that was to be placed near Soldiers and Sailors Monument was placed?Initial plans had it between the two vertical trees north of the monument.  Also, has anyone else noticed that half of the lamp posts surrounding the monument are not working and haven't for some time.

 

The night shots of Public Square from Tower City's webcam are quite nice. When there is a slight breeze the lighting sparkles.

 

The staining of the concrete from the installed wooden benches looks like nothing has been done to correct the issue. I hope the staining can be removed.  Maintenance of this new design should be important.

 

Does anyone know if the proposed "Cracking Art" animals are still to be part of Public Square or was that removed as a location?

 

Public Square isn't going to be officially re-opened until June 30.

Wow I just saw people crossing through the square on motorbikes on the webcam.

Does anyone know where the historic cannon that was to be placed near Soldiers and Sailors Monument was placed?Initial plans had it between the two vertical trees north of the monument.  Also, has anyone else noticed that half of the lamp posts surrounding the monument are not working and haven't for some time.

 

The night shots of Public Square from Tower City's webcam are quite nice. When there is a slight breeze the lighting sparkles.

 

The staining of the concrete from the installed wooden benches looks like nothing has been done to correct the issue. I hope the staining can be removed.  Maintenance of this new design should be important.

 

Does anyone know if the proposed "Cracking Art" animals are still to be part of Public Square or was that removed as a location?

 

Public Square isn't going to be officially re-opened until June 30.

 

Not sure what that has to do with what i was asking.  i already knew the official re-opening date.

Does anyone know where the historic cannon that was to be placed near Soldiers and Sailors Monument was placed?Initial plans had it between the two vertical trees north of the monument.  Also, has anyone else noticed that half of the lamp posts surrounding the monument are not working and haven't for some time.

 

The night shots of Public Square from Tower City's webcam are quite nice. When there is a slight breeze the lighting sparkles.

 

The staining of the concrete from the installed wooden benches looks like nothing has been done to correct the issue. I hope the staining can be removed.  Maintenance of this new design should be important.

 

Does anyone know if the proposed "Cracking Art" animals are still to be part of Public Square or was that removed as a location?

 

Public Square isn't going to be officially re-opened until June 30.

 

Not sure what that has to do with what i was asking.  i already knew the official re-opening date.

 

Perhaps the points you made regarding the canon, lighting and the wood-stained bleeding will be addressed prior to Thursday.  We'll see.  I already mentioned the lighting at SS Monument and I expect the seating issue to be addressed ASAP.

The cannon was placed along the street in the northwest corner of the square. rather out of the way in my opinion, but it is still on the square

Already seen numerous motorbikes ride through the Square, cyclists riding on the paths causing near accidents with pedestrians, cyclists grinding their pedals on and damaging the new cement forms and wood benches, the lack of any clean-up of the stain on the cement forms, no visible security, no police presence, trees that are looking too dry, the lawn starting to brown, the beds are too dry.....

 

Already, there seems to be a lack of on-site security/park workers to control behavior and a lack of maintenance.  Incredible error in staining the wood benches, after they were installed, thereby damaging the cement.  Very odd that park rules are not posted.  Should consider not allowing cycling on the diagonal paths.

 

Looked great from the start....hopefully they raise the remaining couple of million dollars for maintenance (both ongoing and preventive) and hopefully there is the foresight to establish park rules and post them at prominent entrances.

^ ... I saw plenty of security presence there yesterday, police and DCA. There was even a cop car parked in the middle by the event tent they have set up. But there wasn't even anything that could warrant a security problem. Just a whole bunch of people of every different type our city has to offer, coming together and enjoying a beautiful new park. I really don't understand why people are so focused on this being a dangerous place unless its turned into a full police state. I've never seen or had any problems on or near Public Square in the years I've been living downtown now.

Jeez this thread is like always at level ten... I thought the square looked great. We will have to wait and see what sort of security and maintenance is implemented but it JUST OPENED! Haha... Let's dial it back a tad....

 

 

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^Watch out someone's going to accuse you of being a 'fan boy' because you are not making it your daily mission to rip something that's not even finished yet.  And although I really can't recall anything major happening on PS over the last 10 years, something might happen because this is a big city and as soon as it does the ' I told you so 's' will be right on cue...

There's legitimate scrutiny and criticism and then there's either beating a dead horse or being 'Chicken Little' to the point it takes a thread off topic. We do our best to accommodate as many points of view within reason but it would be great if forumers would take a moment to consider what (if anything) they are contributing to the discussions before they hit 'Post'.

I saw the square today and loved it. There were lots of people exploring, running, playing, reading, chilling for a Sunday evening. I'm old enough to remember when you never saw so many people downtown on a Sunday night, let alone find people brave enough to try to relax and have fun on Public Square after sunset.

I can't believe we would throw the bus system under a bus in favor of downtown tranquility, two words that don't even make sense together.  Nothing against tranquility, but some people need those buses and need them to get through downtown efficiently.  And those people matter.

 

Amen. It's the center of our city, our commerce, our transport.  If you want tranquility, there's a nice splash pad at Crocker Park, along with some washed-up light rock bands. 

Saw this pic posted on Facebook......

 

So I wondered about the whole "cyclists grinding their pedals on and damaging the new cement forms and wood benches" bit above, and went out to investigate. I could find no damage mainly because of how the streetscape was designed.

 

In most projects, skate stoppers are used to prevent such incidents from happening. The ones in Public Square are recessed and discreet. I did a walk around of all surfaces and found no damage Saturday, nor did I find much of any surface that could be used for skaters. I also found the benches to not be skatable. (I am a former skater who loved to grind down some nice rails back in the day...)

 

Overall, it's a great public square that was heavily used during Saturday morning. It's a vast improvement over the old and I'm sure the kinks with the roads will be solved. I now see "No Turn on Red" signs around the Square, which solves one of the biggest issues I had earlier coming off of Ontario.

I just went through public square again and the transformation is almost unbelievable as far as pedestrian use goes. Of course it's still brand new but people seem to be really loving it. As everyone else has posted, people are congregating on the benches, sitting under the trees, walking dogs, children are playing, it's amazing to see if you haven't already. And just to add, I saw several DCA staff patrolling the square on foot and bike as well as DCA staff in specific Public Square uniforms cleaning and patrolling. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now we just need that fountain on!

 

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I'm putting this thread into time-out

Anyone who continues to take this thread off-topic (including rehashing tired arguments) will have their account suspended. Once again - membership and participation on this forum is a privilege, treat it as such.

 

A friend asked if I knew when the fountain would be turned on for good. Will it be? Or is it just a daily thing? Or what.

Visited yesterday, and it is BEAUTIFUL! I did see the dead grass and it kind of detracted from the beautiful green area, hopefully that can get remedied. Here are a few pics (Just cell phone pics).

I really like how the seating of the green area lines up perfectly with Terminal Tower it provides a great view, well done.

 

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A friend asked if I knew when the fountain would be turned on for good. Will it be? Or is it just a daily thing? Or what.

 

Thursday around noon.

Visited on Saturday night, as with most public spaces, its success (and my opinion on it) will depend on its programming.

 

Here are some pictures that I had taken, I should have increased the exposure on some of these before I uploaded them to mapillary (a google streetview competitor that's crowd-sourced).

 

http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/QOp-WZUNx93tVGWj3PMfMQ/photo

http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/_yGydPKiDHW8ZPDuVV9VhQ/photo

http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/kXcTA_psVXxAW3Q4x3nclg/photo

http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/OFNiEDnDMHZkXz0dAty--g/photo

http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/mmAZHTEn0NI3MCr1doA60A/photo

http://www.mapillary.com/map/im/VAHvRqiGEjQKzpxLUBDuEg/photo

 

Excellent article. Talks most about Public Square, but goes in-depth into many other growth related subjects. Particularly, I was surprised to find out that we may have finally ended the population decline and are once again into a population growth (small as it may be) phase: "The stakes are high. After decades of decline, Cleveland’s population reached nearly 397,000 last year, about 1,000 more residents than in 2010, according to the census. The increase in apartment construction corresponds with a spurt in residents living in center city Cleveland, who now number 14,000, up from 6,000 in 2002. City demographers project that the number of downtown residents could climb to 20,000 by 2020."

 

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/06/29/realestate/commercial/a-revitalized-cleveland-is-ready-for-its-close-up.html?_r=0&referer=http://m.facebook.com

...Particularly, I was surprised to find out that we may have finally ended the population decline and are once again into a population growth (small as it may be) phase: "The stakes are high. After decades of decline, Cleveland’s population reached nearly 397,000 last year, about 1,000 more residents than in 2010, according to the census..."

 

 

Unfortunately, that information is not correct. Downtown's population is growing, but the city's overall population is still on the decline.

I know these things are usually futile to try to format so they are readable, but here goes:

 

 

                Census      Base    2010          2011          2012        2013          2014        2015      '10-'15        %          '14-'15          %

Cleveland 396,815 396,697     396,010 392,497 391,376 391,142 389,860 388,072 -8,625 -2.2% -1,788 -0.5%

 

From: http://www.countyplanning.us/resources/census-data/population-estimates/

I know these things are usually futile to try to format so they are readable, but here goes:

 

 

                Census      Base    2010          2011          2012        2013          2014        2015      '10-'15        %          '14-'15          %

Cleveland 396,815 396,697      396,010 392,497 391,376 391,142 389,860 388,072 -8,625 -2.2% -1,788 -0.5%

 

From: http://www.countyplanning.us/resources/census-data/population-estimates/

2012-13 was a rough year but it looks as if there isn't really a slowdown but a consistent loss. 2.2% from 10-15 and 0.5% from 14-15. Multiply that 0.5% x 4 more years then you reach a loss of 2.0% by 2020 (going off a consistent loss). Math may be off and hopefully I'm wrong but that's what i take from those numbers.

 

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If I recall, there was some tension between the Soldiers and Sailors Monument folks and the people behind the Public Square redesign when this plan first started. S&S people were saying "You can't just change our monument without asking us" and PS folks were saying "Maybe we should move the monument..." Well, the S&S people have to be happy now because the new design integrates the monument so much better. You can't help but get close to it while walking around the square. I'm sure they're gonna start breaking attendance records.

I totally agree. Not surprised they are mum though...at the time I thought they sounded like big whiners.

^Yes. I've never been a huge S&S monument fan, architecturally (it's a bit overly Victorian, if you know what I mean), although I recognize the building's importance... In the old configuration is seemed like a menacing castle that dominated its quadrant.  Now it seems less for foreboding and accessible -- even people-friendly as a monument in a large plaza park... Just one of many aspects I like in the new PS.

When I checked out the Square on Saturday, the S&S was pretty crowded. It was hard to move around in there, and the attendant looked a little swamped answering questions. Not sure how it was before since this was actually my first time inside myself, but it seemed like more people were taking notice and checking it out!

^I actually went in to S&S for the 1st time a couple years ago, and loved it.  It's a wonderful monument and really beautiful inside.. and free!  The free-flowing nature of the new Public Square does encourage people to go inside; now PS has an accessible (psychologically) museum in addition to a restaurant, interactive fountains, an outdoor theatre, etc...

Today is the big dedication ceremony! I visited the square yesterday. Loved it....

 

 

 

 

 

 

BTW, at 2:15 p.m. yesterday, I rode a bus from East Superior to West Superior around the north perimeter of the square. I used my cell phone's stopwatch to time how long it took us, from turning off Superior until we returned to it.

 

It took three minutes and 20 seconds.

 

Great to see on the webcam a nice crowd still out there enjoying the square. I'm guessing it's some kind of performance art associated with the opening, but it looks like there are 5 construction barrels dancing around. Maybe just the low resolution on the cam, but it's kind of funny.

Are the fountains on today?

Are the fountains on today?

 

Yes

Are the fountains on today?

 

Scene magazine has shared via Twitter and Facebook (and possibly their website) video of the fountains in action.

Public Square redesign gets official sendoff

June 30, 2016 UPDATED 2 HOURS AGO

By JAY MILLER

 

As one speaker put it, the city of Cleveland, with the $50 million redevelopment of Public Square that was formally celebrated Thursday, June 30, in a ceremony, “has gotten a heart transplant.”

 

Those words from Dan Walsh, a member of the Group Plan Commission that oversaw the redevelopment project, summed up the feeling conveyed by a handful of civic leaders to the hundreds of people who came to rededicate the city center.

 

Mayor Frank Jackson said the reshaping of the 10-acre space that was first laid out in the "Original Plan of the Town and Village of Cleaveland" in 1796, “helps us define who we are as a city and what is important to us.”

 

MORE:

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20160630/NEWS/160639982/public-square-redesign-gets-official-sendoff#utm_medium=email&utm_source=ccl-dailynews&utm_campaign=ccl-dailynews-20160630