Finally had a chance to ride up to PS this weekend.  Everything looks awesome!  My only complaint is that the bike racks are a poor design.  They are very wide and not many U-locks will be able to utilize them.  Fortunately, my U-lock is larger and it is meant to lock up two bikes.  However, it was just able to lock up one bike on those racks!

 

I was wandering through Public Square and have noticed that a number of the jets on the splash fountain are already misaligned.  I am concerned on the long term maintenance of this since it has only been in use for a couple of weeks.  I agree that the bike racks are not the most practical design. 

It might be a bit premature to worry about the long term effects of potentially poor maintenance two weeks after the facilities open.

 

The park isn't perfect, but it's a very nice addition to the city.  Let's just enjoy it for a minute

Story from Politico on Public Square. It spends quite a bit of time on the history of the square and the city in general, but you'll notice there are a number of minor factual errors.

 

 

The Hot New Park at the Center of the Republican Convention

By COLIN WOODARD July 12, 2016

 

CLEVELAND—Just in time to play a starring role in next week’s Republican National Convention, Cleveland’s most iconic civic space has undergone a $50-million face-lift.

Public Square, for the past century little more than an unpleasant traffic-clogged intersection at the center of the city, is again a park for people—six acres of swooping promenades lined with sinuous sculptural seating, lush gardens and a public lawn.

 

 

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/07/what-works-ohio-cleveland-public-square-urban-park-redesign-republican-national-convention-214035

^Very nice article; great history with facts I didn't even realize ... One slight correction, when Terminal Tower opened in 1930, it was the tallest building outside New York, period... It was only bested, height-wise by a non-NYC town in the late 60s: first, I believe by the Prudential building in Boston, and then various towers in Chicago, especially the (rather ugly imho) Sears/now Willis building, which then indeed made TT "... the tallest between New York and Chicago."  The Key Building, originally the Society Building, became the tallest between NYC and Chicago until Philly built its Comcast tower around 2009 (and now Comcast is building a mew. super tower a few blocks away that will be the tallest in the U.S.). <-- pretty sure all this is right, but if not, someone will correct me.

... Philly built its Comcast tower around 2009 (and now Comcast is building a mew. super tower a few blocks away that will be the tallest in the U.S.). <-- pretty sure all this is right, but if not, someone will correct me.

 

It won't be the tallest, but will be in the top 10 tallest in the US

At least it's not an artsy-cutesy bike rack that popped up all over Cincinnati's OTR. That's the problem with many of these art projects - they end up being useless and non-functional, especially for the cost for one unit. The most effective bike racks I've seen are the hybrid bike loop and parking meter that's used throughout Cincinnati's basin. It makes good use of space, is secure, and is adaptable to many types of bike locks.

 

The locks at Public Square look functional, but as it's already been pointed out, are almost useless. I tried locking my bike to it with my small U-Lock and I couldn't get it to work - so I locked it up to a nearby tree instead. There really isn't that many options otherwise. I've put in a note to the team down there to get that revised.

 

http://www.dero.com/product/meter-hitch/

^ I believe the design of these bike racks is to place your front tire in the slot and then lock your wheel; however, I am not 100% certain. If this is the design intent the bike can still be stolen without the wheel.  The sharp edges of the bike rack don't make sense if the purpose is otherwise as they will scratch your bike's paint. 

Like some of the outdated bike racks in Shaker Square? I mean, you can literally flip a lever on my bike tire and steal the bike in seconds. That's a huge issue if that's the case.

Nice segment tonight on the PBS Newshour about Public Square, including an interview with James Corner and his firm's on-the-ground designer: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/hot-cleveland-citys-new-cool-public-square/

^ that segment was lovely

This could go here, the RNC thread, or marketing the city.  I'll defer.

 

I was watching Morning Joe  before work and while the hosts were discussing the Republican convention there was an elevated shot of downtown Cleveland looking at the Square toward Terminal Tower.  I couldn't quit make out where the shot came from. The sky was perfectly blue and the square perfectly lit. The shot was stunning and mika brzezinski audibly gasped.  It was awesome.  Well done Cleveland!  :clap:

Looking at the webcam seems like the lights around the perimeter of the SSM have been replaced/repaired.  The column doesn't appear to be lit though.  Oh well, baby steps...

I was browsing IG and saw that they changed the art behind the Café.

 

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

 

 

Does anyone know anything about chickens on public square? Yes you read that right. A coworker of mine was riding her bike around this morning and saw chickens grazing through the shrubs in public square. Is this some kind of RNC thing?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

a

Edited July 15, 20204 yr by SixthCity

The new Public Square is getting mad love from the national media and RNC folks, alike.  Once again, I can't fathom RTA buses cutting through the middle.  People love this new city park area as it is.  The RTA bus plan needs to be rescinded immediately.

It is an amazing space and chickens would be great! I never knew they had them by the tracks under mall C. Also, I heard that Rebol has pretty good food.

It is an amazing space and chickens would be great! I never knew they had them by the tracks under mall C. Also, I heard that Rebol has pretty good food.

 

Rebol's food is pretty good and this is coming from a foodie. I was afraid it was going to be bar food. The square has revitalized the center of downtown. We live downtown and my six year old, instead of asking to play on the IPad, asks if she can go play in the "water park."

The new Public Square is getting mad love from the national media and RNC folks, alike.  Once again, I can't fathom RTA buses cutting through the middle.  People love this new city park area as it is.  The RTA bus plan needs to be rescinded immediately.

 

Apparently there are discussions happening among the higher ups at city hall about keeping the square closed to traffic, based upon all the feedback heard so far. I don't know any further details other than that it's being talked about.

Since Superior is part of U.S. Route 322, wouldn't this need to be approved by the Federal Government? I though that was one of, if not THE reason the plan was executed in the fashion we see now. The designers/city/etc did not want to wait for whatever process the Feds use to end the route.

 

 

I could be wrong though

Not sure if this matters but I think 322 ends at Public Square, as do 42 and 422.

Is it really possible that closing that block of Superior to general traffic and planned periodic closures to all traffic didn't trigger some required federal approval process, but the incremental step of keeping buses off it during weekdays will? Sounds unlikely.

Buses don't run through the middle of Crocker Park.  But they do in the transportation hub of our city.  I'd rather have the movement and action of a busy city, not a quiet park. 

 

Rebol's food is pretty good and this is coming from a foodie. I was afraid it was going to be bar food. The square has revitalized the center of downtown. We live downtown and my six year old, instead of asking to play on the IPad, asks if she can go play in the "water park."

 

That's fine as long as RTA is compensated for the added cost they incur. But I don't know how you compensate RTA riders for the 3-4 added minutes of going around the square.

 

Rebol's food is pretty good and this is coming from a foodie. I was afraid it was going to be bar food. The square has revitalized the center of downtown. We live downtown and my six year old, instead of asking to play on the IPad, asks if she can go play in the "water park."

 

That's fine as long as RTA is compensated for the added cost they incur. But I don't know how you compensate RTA riders for the 3-4 added minutes of going around the square.

I get the transit-centric angle, but how will Clevelanders  - and visitors  - be compensated for having buses destroy the new, serene, highly praised, cohesive Public Square? It can't be all about inconvenience too riders or cost to RTA. it simply can't (it's one component...). If added costs are a concern, cut each bus route 1/8 mile on each end (to equal the 1/4  whatever  the distance around the square is) = solved (layman's point of view... I know, but seriously, why not? That distance is minimal...).

 

I would happily pitch in $50 now to a GoFundMe, etc... if that existed (maybe it should) not because I will ever ride an ETA bus, but because I value a "whole" square.  #BusFreeCLESquare.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I get the transit-centric angle, but how will Clevelanders  - and visitors  - be compensated for having buses destroy the new, serene, highly praised, cohesive Public Square? It can't be all about inconvenience too riders or cost to RTA. it simply can't (it's one component...).

 

Visitors will get used to it. Besides what compensation do you feel they are entitled to? Ontario was closed completely and Superior is only open to buses. The new square is world's better than what was there before.

I think the quality and attrictivenes of Cleveland's living room trumps (now I despise this word) RTA's relatively minor added expenses.  And frankly, the extra potential costs to RTA for closing Public Square is small potatoes compared to their shortfall coming next year with the transit agency's loss of Medicaid taxing ability.  Local officials, including those at RTA, need to really get busy finding funds to cover the new losses rather than nickel and diming it viz Public Square and seriously damaging its outstanding pedestrian-friendly environment.

There are some very sharp minds on this forum - no doubt.  But I just don't understand the argument by some of them

that the importance, beauty, livability and social drawing power of a unified public square is just not needed

on the grounds that the RTA would have to be compensated for costs for the 3- 4 extra minutes that its buses

would need to go around it. 

 

Go visit central park (where I go frequently) and see how traffic needs are "balanced" against the greater good of an unbelievable park in the middle of the country's largest city.    By comparison, Public Square's space is small - we are not talking about an overwhelming imposition

on bus schedules or traffic in general.  I bet that the few minutes difference in the routes that would have to go around

a unified public square would immediately become "normal" and would put no burden on riders.  From what I've seen (and has been quote in this forum) projected costs for a change in the bus routes would be relatively minor, by today's standards.  The investment return would be a

truly great space, completely oriented to 21st century urban dwellers - uninterrupted by buses going through the middle of it on a regular schedule.  Public transportation is vital, I grant you that...  But I don't know one person who ever went to a destination city and came back saying - "Oh my God, you've got to visit there - they have such efficient bus routes!" 

 

 

This article has a cool slider composite picture where you can compare the old square to the new (well the rendering)

 

http://www.wired.com/2016/07/clevelands-new-park-will-define-resistance-rnc/

 

I get the transit-centric angle, but how will Clevelanders  - and visitors  - be compensated for having buses destroy the new, serene, highly praised, cohesive Public Square? It can't be all about inconvenience too riders or cost to RTA. it simply can't (it's one component...). If added costs are a concern, cut each bus route 1/8 mile on each end (to equal the 1/4  whatever  the distance around the square is) = solved (layman's point of view... I know, but seriously, why not? That distance is minimal...).

 

I would happily pitch in $50 now to a GoFundMe, etc... if that existed (maybe it should) not because I will ever ride an ETA bus, but because I value a "whole" square.  #BusFreeCLESquare.

 

 

What is a transit centric angle when it comes to urbanism? There is no urbanism without transit prioritization. If you make transit less convenient in an urban setting, you increase the odds of destroying the urban setting. If you make transit more convenient, you create conditions favorable for an urban setting. If you want to make Public Square truly enjoyable, ban the cars not the buses.

They should've just left the square the way it was, it was mass transit utopia and obviously did wonders for the urbanization of Cleveland throughout the decades.  And somebody needs to tells those fools in NYC they got it all wrong with Central Park, bus traffic should be crisscrossing the park for the sake of urbanization.

I take the bus every day to and from work. And KJP, as much as imagine i will love the convenience of buses running through public square, everyone has to admit that they are loud and most spew out smoke as they go by. That is not something that makes public square any more livable or vibrant or enjoyable.

 

What i will say, is the other day I waited for a bus while laying in the grass on public square and hopped up when i saw it coming. How cool is it to wait for a bus by laying in a public park?

A park needs to be enjoyed by its users: residents of downtown, and visitors to the city. I'm not sure the "three to four minutes" bit for buses circling the loop is valid; if that was the case, you'd have some serious complaints stack up since traffic has been rerouted since construction began with no consequences. I think the fear of rerouting buses is overblown. We've seen what a reimagined Public Square can do to its city - bringing families to downtown, engaging with the S&S monument, playing in the fountains, lounging on the grass, and dining on street tacos. These are all tasks that were practically not done on the old, decrepit square.

There were reports of a pee fight yesterday evening on PS between Westboro, the Klan, and BLM.  This was reported on a mainstream media twitter but I have not seen confirmation locally.

 

That would be wonderful, all that money spent on the Square and outsiders leave it smelling like it did in the 70s.

^Good one...

They should've just left the square the way it was, it was mass transit utopia and obviously did wonders for the urbanization of Cleveland throughout the decades.  And somebody needs to tells those fools in NYC they got it all wrong with Central Park, bus traffic should be crisscrossing the park for the sake of urbanization.

 

Don't be a confrontational jackass. What was Public Square like right after it was last renovated in 1986? What was is like right after the previous renovation? It repeats all the way back to the 1850s when the first horse-drawn streetcars and jitneys transferred passengers on Public Square. Transit to and through Public Square is nearly as old as the square itself.

 

What creates dense urban forms? Walking and transit. What subtracts from the urban form? Cars. When you make transit less attractive and convenient, you force people to resort to cars. Is that what we want for our downtown? And Central Park?? Did transit EVER run through Central Park? Nope. It was built under it -- long before there were tall building surrounding the park. The transit created the ability to build vertically to such an extent and increased the utility of the park. Would so many people use Central Park if transit wasn't there? The different physical forms of cities are shaped by the scale of different transportation modes present.

 

A park needs to be enjoyed by its users: residents of downtown, and visitors to the city. I'm not sure the "three to four minutes" bit for buses circling the loop is valid; if that was the case, you'd have some serious complaints stack up since traffic has been rerouted since construction began with no consequences. I think the fear of rerouting buses is overblown. We've seen what a reimagined Public Square can do to its city - bringing families to downtown, engaging with the S&S monument, playing in the fountains, lounging on the grass, and dining on street tacos. These are all tasks that were practically not done on the old, decrepit square.

 

Maybe you've come up with different timings than what I did? When I timed buses going from Superior East to Superior West, it regularly took in excess of three minutes. Meanwhile motorists scream bloody murder while we add 1 minute to their trips on the West Shoreway by reducing the speed to 35 mph. For 60 years we've re-engineered our cities to accommodate more/faster cars at the expense of pedestrianism and transit that we consider that 1 minute saved a constitutional right. But complain about adding 3+ minutes to a bus ride. No problem. They're poor people. They don't matter. I see transit being swept up in the same disdain for cars as we narrow streets for bike lanes that few people use. Sorry, but you can't have a walkable downtown the scale of Cleveland's or greater without multiple, high-frequency transit routes criss-crossing it. If that transit system is weakened, it's won't be possible to sustain the downtown Cleveland we have now. Instead, we're killing it with a thousand small cuts. $3.5 million worth of service cuts last year + $3.5 million worth of fare increases over the next two years. Another $18 million in service cuts coming in 2017 barring a miraculous save. $300,000 cost added to RTA for running around the square. RTA can afford it, right? Nope, they can't.

And it is where the closing of a couple of streets allowed the square’s quadrants to be reunited and very recently transformed into an even more inviting public space — as if the city of Cleveland were inviting the country and saying, simply: Discuss.

 

In Cleveland’s Public Square, Rights Are Exercised. Loudly.

A few blocks from the arena hosting the Republican convention, in a 10-acre

downtown commons, a full-throated national conversation is taking place.

July 20, 2016

By DAN BARRY

 

CLEVELAND — The woman holding a handbag lets loose. Leaning in to the microphone, she decries police brutality, economic inequity, racial strife, domestic violence — just about every pressing issue of these American days.

 

“This is not the will of God!” shouts the woman, a local activist and pastor named Pamela Pinkney-Butts. “This is not the Constitution!”

 

Her words shoot like verbal fireworks above the trees of dogwood and elm, then float down to blend with all the other words, so many words, that are pooling in a sacrosanct space dedicated to polemic and communion: Cleveland’s Public Square.

 

MORE:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/20/us/clevelands-public-square-republican-convention.html

They should've just left the square the way it was, it was mass transit utopia and obviously did wonders for the urbanization of Cleveland throughout the decades.  And somebody needs to tells those fools in NYC they got it all wrong with Central Park, bus traffic should be crisscrossing the park for the sake of urbanization.

 

Don't be a confrontational jackass. What was Public Square like right after it was last renovated in 1986? What was is like right after the previous renovation? It repeats all the way back to the 1850s when the first horse-drawn streetcars and jitneys transferred passengers on Public Square. Transit to and through Public Square is nearly as old as the square itself.

 

What creates dense urban forms? Walking and transit. What subtracts from the urban form? Cars. When you make transit less attractive and convenient, you force people to resort to cars. Is that what we want for our downtown? And Central Park?? Did transit EVER run through Central Park? Nope. It was built under it -- long before there were tall building surrounding the park. The transit created the ability to build vertically to such an extent and increased the utility of the park. Would so many people use Central Park if transit wasn't there? The different physical forms of cities are shaped by the scale of different transportation modes present.

 

A park needs to be enjoyed by its users: residents of downtown, and visitors to the city. I'm not sure the "three to four minutes" bit for buses circling the loop is valid; if that was the case, you'd have some serious complaints stack up since traffic has been rerouted since construction began with no consequences. I think the fear of rerouting buses is overblown. We've seen what a reimagined Public Square can do to its city - bringing families to downtown, engaging with the S&S monument, playing in the fountains, lounging on the grass, and dining on street tacos. These are all tasks that were practically not done on the old, decrepit square.

 

Maybe you've come up with different timings than what I did? When I timed buses going from Superior East to Superior West, it regularly took in excess of three minutes. Meanwhile motorists scream bloody murder while we add 1 minute to their trips on the West Shoreway by reducing the speed to 35 mph. For 60 years we've re-engineered our cities to accommodate more/faster cars at the expense of pedestrianism and transit that we consider that 1 minute saved a constitutional right. But complain about adding 3+ minutes to a bus ride. No problem. They're poor people. They don't matter. I see transit being swept up in the same disdain for cars as we narrow streets for bike lanes that few people use. Sorry, but you can't have a walkable downtown the scale of Cleveland's or greater without multiple, high-frequency transit routes criss-crossing it. If that transit system is weakened, it's won't be possible to sustain the downtown Cleveland we have now. Instead, we're killing it with a thousand small cuts. $3.5 million worth of service cuts last year + $3.5 million worth of fare increases over the next two years. Another $18 million in service cuts coming in 2017 barring a miraculous save. $300,000 cost added to RTA for running around the square. RTA can afford it, right? Nope, they can't.

What "most" creates dense urban forms? Walking.. If less busses means more "walking" throughout the middle of square, then the answer is easy especially when no busses in the middle of the square results in a net gain of visitors to the square that would otherwise not go to the square should busses be running through the middle of it.

 

NYC has underground transit but it could also add more above-ground transit through Central Park like busses to create more "urban density".  The example still applies.

 

 

Walking sustains smaller buildings in compact settings. Skyscrapers simply aren't possible without mass transit, unless we're content to sacrifice 40 percent of downtown land to parking (an average for car-centric downtowns) and have lots of car traffic -- which detracts from walking.

Walking sustains smaller buildings in compact settings. Skyscrapers simply aren't possible without mass transit, unless we're content to sacrifice 40 percent of downtown land to parking (an average for car-centric downtowns) and have lots of car traffic -- which detracts from walking.

Not necessarily true.  The Progressive Insurance tower was to include an integral parking garage.  Granted this increases car traffic and can lead to a fortress mentality (likely the intent at Progressive).  But it does add to building height, and like it or not newer taller buildings are seen as an outward sign of a downtown's vibrancy.

As a transit advocate and (heavy) user, I certainly don't dismiss RTA's added costs of sending all buses around Public Square's perimeter out of hand -- those costs are important especially for a starved transit system making extensive cutbacks.  But given the absolute love the public has so far shown the redone Square and its newfound ability to attract people, including families from all walks of life, just to be there, I believe these factors outweigh the extra monies RTA is spending for the added fuel of the current all perimeter service... And, as another article I posted today in the transit thread about funding major transit projects, RTA and the City really need to start thinking out of the box and getting creative in terms of finding funding sources... If keeping the buses out of the Square is important enough -- and I think it is -- and RTA is losing money because of it, then let's find funding sources to offset these costs.

 

And as I noted yesterday, RTA's crisis is going to be squared (maybe even cubed) next year with the loss of Medicaid taxiing authority.  A parking tax sounds like a good idea to pursue.  Additional pressure on state and local pols, like Kasich (who is strategically bypassing Trump's sinking ship in Cleveland with White House eyes for 2020) and our local representatives, for increased subsidy is always another approach.

What "most" creates dense urban forms? Walking.. If less busses means more "walking" throughout the middle of square, then the answer is easy especially when no busses in the middle of the square results in a net gain of visitors to the square that would otherwise not go to the square should busses be running through the middle of it.

 

NYC has underground transit but it could also add more above-ground transit through Central Park like busses to create more "urban density".  The example still applies.

 

What does walking through the middle of a square accomplish?  Sounds like one of those nebulous Boulevard Vibrant Greenspace benefits.  The value of walking in cities is tied to the destination of the walker, the purpose of the walk-- not the landscaping underfoot.

 

And comparisons between this and NYC Central Park don't hold any water at all.  Aside from the obvious scale issue, Central Park isn't in the middle of downtown where transit converges.  Manhattan is thoroughly dense and otherwise lacks greenspace, while Cleveland's situation is the opposite.  Besides, if a big open expanse is what you want, free from messy urban activity, we already have that and it's a block away from the square.

 

Closing Superior has clearly been a boon for the RNC and will remain a special event option in the future.

The new Public Square is getting mad love from the national media and RNC folks, alike.  Once again, I can't fathom RTA buses cutting through the middle.  People love this new city park area as it is.  The RTA bus plan needs to be rescinded immediately.

 

I agree. I think we need an indoor bus terminal.

The new Public Square is getting mad love from the national media and RNC folks, alike.  Once again, I can't fathom RTA buses cutting through the middle.  People love this new city park area as it is.  The RTA bus plan needs to be rescinded immediately.

 

I agree. I think we need an indoor bus terminal.

 

Cincinnati & Detroit both do it right, they have transit centers a block away from Fountain Square & Campus Martius.

There needs to be an indoor bus terminal where the parking lot directly west of Playhouse Square is. Ideally it would have office space above it, but that would be the perfect location with Public Square and Terminal Tower right there. Then once the Warehouse District plan gets built it would be a great hub for the activity going on there.

There needs to be an indoor bus terminal where the parking lot directly west of Playhouse Square is. Ideally it would have office space above it, but that would be the perfect location with Public Square and Terminal Tower right there. Then once the Warehouse District plan gets built it would be a great hub for the activity going on there.

Those would be viable options, anything but dissecting a now beautiful PS in the name of cutting people's walk time down by a few minutes, most of who could use the exercise anyway.

There needs to be an indoor bus terminal where the parking lot directly west of Playhouse Square is. Ideally it would have office space above it, but that would be the perfect location with Public Square and Terminal Tower right there. Then once the Warehouse District plan gets built it would be a great hub for the activity going on there.

 

Not to open old wounds, but the idea you mention sounds very much like the CTS subway proposal of the 1950s, which was approved by the voters: separate bus terminals to at the edges of downtown whereby bus riders could transfer to subway trains to complete their journey to PS or other locations around downtown ... or simply walk to those places.  The goal was the same: remove the high concentration and congestion of buses from Public Square.

 

Boston Commons is an example of a successful bus-train distribution (originally streetcar-train) plan that's been working for over a century.  If you observe Boston Commons during rush hour, you hardly even see a T bus at all... In fact, I did so for 15-20 minutes one time and saw none.  The only buses I saw was a tour bus here and there.  Unfortunately Albert S. Porter killed such plans here in Cleveland and, as we're discussing today, his actions still haunt downtown nearly 60 years later.

^btw, this ties into the Health Line LRT conversion discussed before which I raised yesterday in the RTA thread.  It is STILL a viable idea especially with downtown's amazing growth (let's not talk about how congested it's going to get when both nuCLEus and Weston come online) as well as the amazing instant popularity of our new Public Square.

^^btw for those not familiar with Boston, Boston Commons is a central, grassy, serene public park not unlike our Public Square... The Commons is somewhat larger than Public Square.