ColDayMan, I'm not familiar with Indianapolis' Monument Circle. How many buses are routed through there? Whenever I'm on Cleveland's Public Square during rush hours, I'm always astonished at the number of buses that converge there.

 

I would think that closing off traffic through the middle of the square would make it easier to transfer among the multitude of bus routes. And I don't think vehicular traffic is all that heavy around Public Square. As others have said, there are other roads that go around Public Square about a block from it (the exception being between Euclid and Superior -- a holdover from when downtown was designed for pedestrians). Ironically, Bob Stark proposes to close off Public Square to traffic in his plans because, in his words, it's not as functional a public space as it could be if the quadrants were united and redesigned (excepting the Soldiers and Sailors Monument).

 

I agree having more development around it will make it more usable, but imagine if it that happened, plus it became a huge united public space and had all RTA buses routed around it with an RTA customer service center on the square (either in a storefront or in the middle of the square). I can see it being a vibrant place with lots of people making their way through it at all hours. It could truly become Cleveland's heart again.

 

Generally, I can't tell you, as IndyGo isn't exactly the greatest public transportation in the Midwest, but I can testify (AMEN!) that there were several buses (at the same time) going around the circle.  Again, I believe the brick street had a large part of it.  And as you said, Public Square doesn't get alot of traffic, so why not close the middle streets through the square and make it one large square?  Can't hurt it.

The square is largely unused now. Do yu think making the four quadrants one large square will make it more used? I don't know, if they do combine them I kind of see it as being one large traffic island instead of four? To remedy the vacant square I think Vulpster's ideas should be implemented (retail) if the square were combined so there would be more traffic that would justify blocking Superior and Ontario through the square.

i think an au bon pain would fit nicely

You would need to add some amenities.  I would like to see a sunken amphitheater.  You need places where events can go on and where people will feel good about their surroundings.  As is, each quadrant is surrounding by traffic on all four sides.  If they were combined, you wouldn't feel as isolated.  You need to be able to stretch out, play frisbee, watch a small concert. 

If I remember correctly (forgive me), the quadrants of Public Square each have knee walls around the perimeter, correct? 

Around a good portion of the perimeters, yes.  The inward looking quality of each of the squares is a major problem.  They all turn their backs on the surroundings, and try to create their own interior space seperate from all else.  This creates an isolated experience, with all that implies for a sense of safety.

 

If the squares could be opened up a little so that they don't all act as seperate little parks and the traffic could at least be tamed somewhat with raised brick paving, then that would work wonders for making the square more usuable.

 

It would be great if the buses that go through the square and use it as the main transfer point could go to some sort of structured transit center instead, similar to the East Side Transit Center discussed on another thread.  Maybe if the buses were routed under the square, the transit center could be built down there, with the square reconstructed on top.

Hey, look at how the traffic is handled at great spaces like Dupont Circle in DC. Except here, you've got two streets that could go under the square. Would an intersection under the square work? Imagine the whole thing under there being a giant transit center and pedestrian promenade, topped with a public park at the former street level.... It's fun dreaming!

Perhaps the buses could go below to a transit center, and the cars could be sent into narrower roads through the square that are made of raised pavement, slowing them to 25 mph.  Some of the roads above could also be closed- either the outside circular, or the cut-across roads.

Interesting you mention Dupont, KJP.  I was thinking of Dupont in my earlier post, because that is a fantastic public space.  Part of it, I think, has to do with what I'll call the "approachability" of the circle.  From across the circle, you can easily see grass, trees, the fountain, and benches--it invites you to come on over.  The walls around the quadrants of Public Square have a tendency to hide the public space from view, and discourage one from crossing the street. 

I can't speak to Dupont Circle (though I've heard much praise for it!), but I do like thinking about alternatives, both radical and simple for Public Square.  I doubt we'll see the sunken layers approach anytime soon, but I like the idea.  And as several of you have said, and I may have said on this thread some time ago, it's about the programming of the square, rather than the reconfiguration. 

 

We have an opportunity with four unique quadrants to make something special out of each one.  The only one that seems to be pretty set in stone (no pun intended) is the southeast quadrant, where the monument dominates and creates a landmark and beacon visible all the way down Euclid (pretty awesome, by me).  The other squares seem to be open to interpretation, but I haven't seen much of anything new or creative done with them anytime recently.  Though, I have been away for several years, so I hope to be proven wrong this spring and summer!  I know that Parkworks and others have been working with the Malls, Star Plaza and Market Square to give them more active uses.  These things are great and right on what we need to be working on in the short-term.

 

Of the ideas mentioned here that I especially like are the transit center (with staff!) and new retail uses.  I always think of NYC and Portland, which were my two most recent homes before moving back to Cleveland.  Both have premier public spaces with visitor centers and a high density of pedestrian and transit uses focused on them. 

 

I think of Bryant Park in NYC with its outdoor cafes, sanwich kiosks, outdoor reading area (courtesy of the Public Library), movable seating, movie screenings, and subway stations.  This was not a great place to go in the not-too-distant past, but a major effort by neighborhood businesses, residents and corporations pulled it all together and made it one of the best public spaces in the world.  (see the Project for Public Spaces site for more...) 

 

Portland's Pioneer Square is a transit hub for buses and light rail, has a Starbucks built within its boundaries, features a series of water features, chess tables, a wide open plaza for acitivities and a newly opened visitor center.  And it is notoriously well policed...try riding your bike across it and you'll surely be nabbed by an officer!

 

There are also simple things like the dog park in Thompkins Square (east village, nyc) or transitory things like the farmers market in Union Square (NYC) and other, smaller markets elsewhere throughout the city and country. 

 

I think the addition of the Downtown Alliance will make a noticeable difference to the cleanliness and the perception of how friendly our city is to visitors.  Also, having the visitors bureau located on the square will surely add a draw and demand better services and programming...

I really like a lot of the ideas you guys have thrown out there, especially the ones about the roads going under the square.  Seems like you just close off all the streets around the square (E 2nd, Euclid, and what looks like W 2nd and Frankfort, although I'm not sure what the last 2 are technically called there...) and just worry about Superior and Ontario.  Ohter places have subterranean intersections (see lower Wacker in Chicago), so it should be feasible.  Although I seem to remember hearing that there's stuff under the Soldiers and Sailors monument (anyone else ever heard this?)  Not sure if it would be out of the way or moveable.

 

I also agree with the comments about the square being 4 little mini-squares.  The whole place doesn't feel cohesive between all the roads criss-crossing and surrounding it and the inward focus of the quadrants.  To me, it just doesn't work as it is.  And while programming would help, it's an awkward space for that to happen with it carved up so much.  For instance, during the Cleveland Orchestra's 4th of July concerts, you really can't see the orchestra unless you're right in front of the Terminal Tower, b/c all of the low-rise trees in the quadrants block the view.

Also definitely need to fill up that parking lot on the western edge.

 

One other thought (utterly infeasible, I know) would be to move the monument to the center of the square (where Ontario & Superior intersect today).  It just feels a little awkward with it off in the corner.  I'm willing to bet that's not really an option, but it's nice to dream...

Shaker Square is set up pretty much the same as public square isn't it?  They get plenty of traffic through there, and it does pretty well.  The main differences seem to be that it is smaller, the streets are a bit narrower, traffic is a little slower, street parking is available (which we can debate might be more detrimental than beneficial), and the entire square is ringed with mixed-used retail, entertainment, dining and offices.  Also there is tons of residental adjacent all around the square.  Plus, for festivals and the farmer's market they regularly close off the streets that cross through the center of the square, turning it into one large space. 

 

So I don't know if closing down the streets would make the difference, but it would be nice if they could close them for special events.  On weekends, traffic should certainly be divertable.  I think Public Square would come back to life if people were living around it and there were good dining and shopping options ringing the square.

 

But as to the general concern of where traffic goes when streets are closed, I remember Jane Jacobs writing about this in Dark Age Ahead.  A road through a park near her home (I think) was closed after being hotly contested by those saying the traffic would divert to adjacent streets and clog them, but instead traffic throughout the neighborhood decreased and no one knew where it went.  I wish I had a quote to reference, but there's an interesting article here which discusses some of the current thinking in traffic engineering and how more streets beget more traffic.

Most of the time I would protest removing auto traffic from existing streets because even when there is not much pedestrian traffic, cars parallel parked on narrow streets (the former coolest street in Cleveland, East 4th before it was turned into a pedestrian mall that is not frequented as yet) provide a buffer to the street, as well as add density/clutter to the urban landscape.  Take away the street, parking meters, traffic lights and street signs, and the human scale is ruined in an attempt to create a false environment to attract tourists.

 

But, after all that, removing the streets through Public Square would help create a viable civic space.  What does the city do on 4th of July weekend when the orchestra plays on Public Square, or set the world record for a balloon launch (back in the mid-80's) to pack in 100,000 people?  They close down Ontario and Superior through the Square.

 

I say terra-form (SimCity 2000 term) the Square up 15 or 20 feet above current street level and get a contemporary architect/landscape architect to redesign the new level.  Think of the new vantage points available down the canyons of Euclid, Superior to the east, and hopefully soon to the west as well, with a series of changing topography.

Ah, but once you start moving earth, things get damn expensive real fast!  Take down the knee walls first....

How are you going to make that climb within the confines of such a small space?  You would essentially be turning it into "Public Mound".

I remember seeing in some book somewhere, perhaps heart of cleveland book?, that many times they have proposed to make the square as one but allways failed out. Specificaly in one of the renderings it showed it with a tunnel underneath it, and one of the routes through it blocked off. They didnt actualy lower the road underneath but rather built the square up and around the tunnel, without moving the exsiting segments. It was pretty bad looking, picture 80's era concrete blocks stacked on top of eachother in a haphazard pyramid like fashion.

 

^^ I remember the baloon launch in the 80's, I was actually there. On the trip back home to lakewood I saw all the baloons in the lake. Somehow one of the baloons actualy mannaged to get to my house and in my front yard on cook ave.

Some ended up at my old house as well at E260th and I-90.  Still have one of them.

"all of the low-rise trees"

 

Let me tell you, I was just walking by the northeastern quadrant today and whatever those species are - they gotta go. They just look like something out of Tim Burton's "Corpse Bride", and worse - they provide plenty of cover for the homeless to camp out once their leaves come back. They need something a little taller that still offers shade, but the trees that are there now aren't cutting it.

"all of the low-rise trees"

They need something a little taller that still offers shade, but the trees that are there now aren't cutting it.

 

Nice unitended pun. Someone should be cutting them.

I remember seeing in some book somewhere, perhaps heart of Cleveland book?, that many times they have proposed to make the square as one but allways failed out. Specifically in one of the renderings it showed it with a tunnel underneath it, and one of the routes through it blocked off. They didn't actually lower the road underneath but rather built the square up and around the tunnel, without moving the existing segments. It was pretty bad looking, picture 80's era concrete blocks stacked on top of eachother in a haphazard pyramid like fashion.

 

 

Yeah, I love looking at those dated schemes.  But actually I think the square was briefly unified in the mid-19th century.

 

I'm not sure why some you present increased retail around the square as an alternative to improving the square's environment; I'm pretty sure everyone here would love to see downtown retail rebound (not to mention that opening retail is not really something the city can itself do).  I guess the thought is that no-one would think the square was such an underachieving place if it was full of happy shoppers as you see in old photos...but I'm not sure how long we'd have to wait before the area is a shopping hub again and I would love to help push it along with with an improved physical environment.  And I don't think closing these stretches of street is at all analogous to pedestrianizing a commercial street.    And yeah, it will still be surrounded by roads, but 6 acres (a blind guess) surrounded by roads is pretty different from single acres surrounded by roads.  It's easy to get a sense how much of Public Square's original 9.5 or so acres is covered by roadway by looking at the google satellite photo.

 

Aside from the bus routing- which in my completely unstudied speculation could be addressed somehow- I would think that closing Ontario and Superior through the square would be a relatively inexpensive way to improve downtown for residents and those office workers who manage to step outside of their offices or parking garages and to add a place that could be a destination in of itself.  And of course throw an outdoor bar in there.  And the other good ideas above (I vote to reconstruct one of the old streetcar "pagodas" as the RTA info booth).

 

MayDay, if the trees you're knockin' are plane trees/sycamores (haven't walked through there in a while), I happen to love 'em, but if it gets your Public Square reconfiguration vote, I'll insist on honey locusts.

Yes, I've been to Campus Martius in Detroit.  I think that novelty is part of the reason people are attracted to it, but isn't that the reason people are attracted to any successful urban square?  I believe some Detroit's may be curious due to the newness, but only because there is a dearth of quality public spaces in that city.  Detroit has done a good job of defining this space at the historic center of town.  With all the parking lots downtown, definition of space was something that has been lacking for a while.  Interesting to note that prior to its completion, people in Detroit predicted traffic disasters around the roadway that encircles Campus Martius.  These have largely failed to come to fruition.  Could this be a lesson applicable to Public Square?

 

In my opinion, the most successful urban squares are those where programming isn't required to attract people there--the places where people flock naturally because of the quality of location and spatial arrangement.  In such a place, something as simple as sitting still, perhaps with a cup of coffee, is enjoyable.  That's my criteria for defining a successful square.  

 

While I agree Campus Martius isn't a DuPont Circle, I disagree that it's "newness" is what's sparking its popularity.  I think you have to look at what this new square has done for it's downtown.  Detroit's downtown is much less a pedestrian/people-oriented place than Cleveland's.  So that it's drawing people out of their beloved cars to outdoor concerts and an ordinarily mundane Au Bon Pain in a place like Detroit is noteworthy.  I think you have to look on it's habit changing aspects, and to that end, it's been significant for Detroit.  Mind you, I do think Public Square's lousy in many ways, it has the natural advantage over a Campus Martius b/c PS is the hub and major transfer point for rail and bus -- so it's automatically a ped-oriented public space.  Not so in Detroit which a) has no rail and is more car-oriented than us and, b) has a major bus terminal elsewhere downtown.

 

Also, while it may seem corny to some, I think it's well done, particularly the French-like gravel walk ways in addition to the public stage.

 

Sadly, we've bowed (as usual) to the mighty auto in our clinging to Public Square's archaic design.  We can't bear the thought of not letting thru traffic on either Superior or Ontario when, really, Superior (long ago) should have been buried in a DuPont Circle-like duck-under ramp and Ontario should be terminated on both sides and forced into a run about: thus creating the solid, grassy parkland we all believe the Square should revert to.  But we simply lack the will to change it for the better.

 

... Once again, the almighty ODOT rules all!!!!

clvlndr, squares don't "do" anything.  Reread what you and I both wrote.  We're saying the same thing.  Public Square suffers because it is too compartmentalized, with the compartments segregated by wide roads that are a bit intimidating to cross on foot.  Campus Martius succeeds because it is a well-defined public space in a city with a dearth of such spaces--an oasis if you will.

i, for one, agree with either closing off cross streets or at the very least narrowing them.

 

here's a recent proposed redesign as a result of a competition sponsored by the gund foundation.

thank our good mother earth for the gund foundation.  cleveland's urban gardens, ecovillage, wind power, and now public square; all ideas seeded by gund.  if only we had the gund institute!

 

http://gcbl.org  <<<< scroll down to public square link

Does anyone think that the newly renovated Fountain Square, in Cincy, would be good enough to make an updated version of this list.  I tend to think so, but then again I am a little biased in my opinion....What do the rest of you think?

  It is also sad to see that the homeless advocates choose this area to pass out free meals to the homeless.  Isn't there a better spot to do this?  As much good as they think they are doing, they don't realize this is the showcase area of the city(or should be). 

 

 

 

That's a pretty arrogant statement, don't you think?  Where should these people feed the homeless that would work better for you? 

 

How about in DC?

One thing I'd like to see in Public Square are some fixed tables with some fixed benches somewhere in the Square like the ones that exist in Oxford's uptown park, so I can more easily eat my lunch there. Today I grabbed some lunch from Sushi 86 and was trying to eat it while sitting in Public Square, but because there were no tables- I got soy sauce all over my pants.

^ParkWorks is looking into doing a master plan that would make some significant changes to Public Square. In the short term, the county is providing funding to re-landscape portions of the Square to improve sightlines, etc.

That is AWESOME news....I hope it does change for the better...that is Cleveland's(could be) MINI Central park

That is AWESOME news....I hope it does change for the better...that is Cleveland's(could be) MINI Central park

 

Why do we need to be like "central park".  the square is way to small to be anything like that.

 

I understand you want a better PS and you're not saying "emulate" Central Park, but CLEVELAND'S Public Square is OUR front door.  and it should have its on unique flavor and we should be developing the mall area with programing similar to what goes on at Bryant Park.

 

when the Mall had the Hanna Fountains, it was well used during the day by people who wanted to stroll, sit out and enjoy the fountains and take a break.  and at night the mall was used for a very different reason.  :-o

 

Today's open mall is stunning but should have more off peak programming to entice downtown residents to be out on it.

The day they decide to close off the roads running through our 'front door' ( I prefer the term, The Heart of the City), I will be there with shovel in hand to start the demo.

^ParkWorks is looking into doing a master plan that would make some significant changes to Public Square. In the short term, the county is providing funding to re-landscape portions of the Square to improve sightlines, etc.

 

That sounds nice, but if there is one area that Public Square fares pretty well in as is, I'd say its landscaping. The landscaping in the square is kept up very nicely and I think it looks great- especially since the Special Improvement District started.

 

I was escorting a journalist (who lives in New York) to the Rock Hall from Tower City. The first thing he mentioned to me when we exited Terminal Tower was how clean and well kept everything was, while making a wave motion to indicate Public Square.

 

Anyway, I like Public Square very much as is. I think it could use some kiosks, and tables for people to eat lunch or play chess on, but I'm pretty against permanently closing the streets and doing something drastic.

 

That is AWESOME news....I hope it does change for the better...that is Cleveland's(could be) MINI Central park

 

Squares are different than parks. They serve different purposes. I hear and read stuff all the time about how we need more parks and greenspace, but remember we do have Edgewater State Park, Rockefeller Park, and the Metroparks... not too bad I'd say. Rockefeller Park in particular is considerably similar to Central Park, but more Clevelanders have probably been to Central Park than to Rockefeller. It's quite sad really. 

The day they decide to close off the roads running through our 'front door' ( I prefer the term, The Heart of the City), I will be there with shovel in hand to start the demo.

 

I'll be right next to you.  I would love for city to close off Ontario & Superior in the interior of the square!

SHEESH people...I only stated "Central Park" because it is a familiar term....I KNOW it isn't the same...all I was saying is that something needs to be done to promote better public use.....hence Central Park, Bryant Park,____ Park, etc etc....

 

off the topic.....how do you make those little quotes boxes, I have no idea how that is done?

That sounds nice, but if there is one area that Public Square fares pretty well in as is, I'd say its landscaping. The landscaping in the square is kept up very nicely and I think it looks great

 

The landscaping is pretty nice. I saw city workers planting the next batch of plants in the median on Saturday morning before the Urban Ohio Meet-up. They always do a nice job.

 

Now if somebody would please do something with that giant piece of crap known as a Christmas holiday tree stand. I will never understand why that thing needs to be up all year. At least paint it some nice color.

 

 

off the topic.....how do you make those little quotes boxes, I have no idea how that is done?

 

^Like this? :-D

 

When you go to write your post and want to quote something from a previous post, just click where it says "quote" on the right hand side of the screen in the topic bar for each individual quote (it's on the same line as the time and date for each person's post.

 

The entire quote will appear where you type your text with brackets on either end of the quote

 

i.e."

" and "

"

 

Either use the entire quote or delete the parts of the quote you don't want, but be sure to keep these brackets at the beginning and end of the quote.

 

 

The day they decide to close off the roads running through our 'front door' ( I prefer the term, The Heart of the City), I will be there with shovel in hand to start the demo.

 

And I'll be there with the dynamite. PS is a large space-but half of it is streets. I would like to see the streets running thru PS closed. And the streets that run around PS should become one-way .  This would create a true square that can then be put to better use. I would hold a design competition and let the creative minds just go nuts and give us something truly unique. Right now PS is just one big giant bus stop-not a very inviting place.

Since Cleveland's beginnings, the square has been there - of course, it was originally for cows to graze.

I think in the late 70's - early 80's, there were plans to have Superior tunnel under the Square. I am not sure that would be the solution now.

There is no reason to have all of those buses there. There is just as much room on West Prospect for the buses to idle.

The day they decide to close off the roads running through our 'front door' ( I prefer the term, The Heart of the City), I will be there with shovel in hand to start the demo.

 

And I'll be there with the dynamite. PS is a large space-but half of it is streets. I would like to see the streets running thru PS closed. And the streets that run around PS should become one-way .  This would create a true square that can then be put to better use. I would hold a design competition and let the creative minds just go nuts and give us something truly unique. Right now PS is just one big giant bus stop-not a very inviting place.

 

I think it should be like shaker square.  Although Shaker blvd. runs thru shaker square, you ahve to navigate around the circle to get anywhere and I think the same approach can be applied to Public Square.

I think it should be like shaker square. 

and shaker square is prioritized for pedestrians.  with red light cameras, etc.  you can't even activiate a crosswalk downtown (either through sensor or button).

 

has anyone noticed the sensors on the back of the new crosswalk signs in shaker square?  they sense when somebody is there and activate the cross walk change. 

^ Yes...and a rail line would be nice as well.....but hey..PS gets the coveted BRT!  :(

 

Since Cleveland's beginnings, the square has been there - of course, it was originally for cows to graze.

I think in the late 70's - early 80's, there were plans to have Superior tunnel under the Square. I am not sure that would be the solution now.

There is no reason to have all of those buses there. There is just as much room on West Prospect for the buses to idle.

 

Having the buses go through Public Square is the reason why I like Public Square road configurations as is. The Terminal Tower quadrant is congested with cabs, buses, and other vehicles sitting idle to pick up people- and I like that situation. To close off Ontario or Superior and force all vehicles to use Public Square roadways would create too much congestion and buses would have to be routed somewhere else to pick up people- other than the front doors of Cleveland's transit hub, city center shopping mall, and landmark tower.

 

There is too much traffic and too much density in Public Square to create a Shaker Square configuration.

 

It is no problem to cross the streets in Public Square. Anyone who feels prohibited from getting somewhere because they have to cross a street to get somewhere has serious issues.

Since Cleveland's beginnings, the square has been there - of course, it was originally for cows to graze.

I think in the late 70's - early 80's, there were plans to have Superior tunnel under the Square. I am not sure that would be the solution now.

There is no reason to have all of those buses there. There is just as much room on West Prospect for the buses to idle.

 

Having the buses go through Public Square is the reason why I like Public Square road configurations as is. The Terminal Tower quadrant is congested with cabs, buses, and other vehicles sitting idle to pick up people- and I like that situation. To close off Ontario or Superior and force all vehicles to use Public Square roadways would create too much congestion and buses would have to be routed somewhere else to pick up people- other than the front doors of Cleveland's transit hub, city center shopping mall, and landmark tower.

 

There is too much traffic and too much density in Public Square to create a Shaker Square configuration.

 

It is no problem to cross the streets in Public Square. Anyone who feels prohibited from getting somewhere because they have to cross a street to get somewhere has serious issues.

 

I don't agree.  Cleveland, especially downtown should be for PEOPLE not BUSSES, CARS OR CABS.  There is plenty of room for buses to be idle or better yet cut back on the idol time.  Move cabs to Superior.

 

As someone else posted, we've had it too good for too long here in regards to housing prices and road congestion.  Change is sweeping the city - in  GOOD WAY and small things like this can correct and ADD to the value of living in the center of the city.

Having the buses go through Public Square is the reason why I like Public Square road configurations as is.

 

At the very least, the buses should go in the same direction as everyone else. Despite driving and walking through the square since the 80's, I have always been troubled by a bus coming straight toward me.

 

Also, I think the portion of the road in front of the BP building should be completely closed to vehicular traffic. The Atrium could be extended and opened up with some sort of, dare I say, retractable wall.

In an urban design class I took a while ago, the professor (an architect from KSU) stated that PS is the living room of the city. Mainly because of the tower that surround it - except for the northwest quad.

I would love to be able to sit out in front of the BP building, posting to Urban Ohio on my Mac (with free WiFi, of course) eating my bagged lunch. Then take the trolley back to work at CSU.

I can see it now.

Given how lightly used Prospect is behind Terminal Tower, why not divert traffic to that street? A similar situation exists, though not quite the same, on Rockwell. If you make the urban core more pedestrian friendly and high density, than the need for as much vehicular traffic that we have at present won't be needed any more. Geez, look at cities where pedestrians dominate the streets. Even a city like Tokyo has much more pedestrian traffic than vehicular traffic.

i think it also gets back to the basics:  replacing missing trees, properly trimming existing plantings, replacing failing pavement/brick areas, making sure existing lighting is functioning properly.

 

as long as the quandrants smell like urine, have broken sidewalks and brick areas and are missing plantings, i think this area is just viewed as a dumping ground and not a front door.  the nicest quadrant is the SS  monument, and it doesn't have very good "public" areas to recreate, imo.  the other 3 are in disarray. 

 

of course some big $$ improvements would be nice and should be considered in the "master plan", but these fixes are just about attention to detail and place and not a huge dollar outlay. 

I love this thread- it's like a loop that resets every couple of months.

 

Playing Scrabble in Madison Square (not the arena, the square) in NYC a couple months back reminded me what a crap-fest Public Square is.  I wanna be there with Musky and MTS and everyone else to start digging when the city realizes that closing off Superior and Ontario through the square probably offers the highest benefit per dollar of any single downtown project under consideration right now.  Maybe then it can really become the city's living room instead of its traffic island-it's actually quite a large space with huge potential.  Sure it would force a lot of traffic to the edges of the square, but it's not like those edges are delicate, thriving urban ecosystems at present anyhow.  Downtown is never going to be its best as long as the authorities keep making the daily 5pm automobile exodus of Strongsville commuters priority numero uno.

 

Seriously, whose cage do we have to rattle to get some big-picture changes on the boards?

 

Vulp, we'll wait until your out of town to start diggin' to make it easy on you.

here is a proposed design for our public square via http://gcbl.org/land/green-infrastructure/a-great-public-square-for-cleveland

 

this posting is for folks who like pictures. 

if you'd like to read more, have at the pdf via http://www.greencitybluelake.org/images/land/public-square-plan.pdf

 

 

enjoy.  comments/suggestions/criticisms are always appreciated.

 

 

 

Civic leaders envision revitalized Public Square

 

Plan includes shops, dining, amphitheater

 

Sunday, June 11, 2006

Tom Breckenridge

Plain Dealer Reporter

 

Public Square is a disappointing landmark, pulsing with traffic rather than the human-scale vibrancy its geography and history dictate.

Exciting stuff.

As critical as this project is, I think Coyne is on to something. There are so many ideas for improving downtown Cleveland right now, but absolutely no consensus as to what should be top priority. There's a sense of desperation and scattered-ness. We need everyone pushing for the towpath, or for public square, or for the new convention center, at the same time. Then we can move on to the next task.

Exciting stuff.

As critical as this project is, I think Coyne is on to something. There are so many ideas for improving downtown Cleveland right now, but absolutely no consensus as to what should be top priority. There's a sense of desperation and scattered-ness. We need everyone pushing for the towpath, or for public square, or for the new convention center, at the same time. Then we can move on to the next task.

 

Blinky...you know I love you like I love a good cup of kawfee, but I disagree.  Each of these projects is like a piece of the puzzle, one is NOT more important than the adjacent. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts. 

 

We have projects that are currently "a go", big projects in the pipeline, and now discussion of better retail, hotels and entertainment, so the time is NOW to discuss how to better connect the neighborhoods. 

 

The more good thing people HEAR will make the city core (and its surround areas) that much more desirable..so execution & communication is important..and planners must be in tune to the projects that are "on deck" and how they are going to fit in to the projects that are currently going up.  They also, must plan these projects so that the next wave of planning and development, raise the bar.

 

For those who have purchased homes, businesses who have recently located or individuals/business "thinking" of relocating downtown - planners/developers have got to partner and work together like Zaremba is doing with the Avenue District to keep the momentum going .

 

Fixing public square should be A top priority as it will "connect" The WHD (and to a degree the NEW East Bank), Tower City & Gateway.  The trickle effect will have an impact on TowerCity the most as they should now be looking at better retail options for the mall and developers should be looking at better free standing retail on the street in downtown.

 

The one SUPER IMPORTANT missing .... is transportation outside of the Euclid Corridor.  Both the LC and DS bridges should be discussed as rail transportation uses to also help connect downtown and the surrounding areas.