--more retail space available...one cafe is not going to cut it (long lines!) and competition and variety and more leasing is a good thing.

 

...

 

What do you guys think?

I don't think they need to have more dedicated retail/food within the square itself. It's a small enough space that you could line the square with more quality retail in the existing buildings that surround PS.

^How exactly could "you" line the square with quality retail?  Who pays the building owners to accept below market rents?  How do you ensure the individually owned buildings each participate?  What about buildings like the old federal building, Old Stone Church, old Society Bank Building, Key Tower, and 200 Public Square, which have no street-facing retail frontage?  Given that there will be a busy roadway separating the buildings from the square, how much life will that retail space add to the square itself?

 

Obviously adding more activity near the square is good for its vitality, but affordable restaurant/bar/cafe space on the square is a very practical step, in the city/county's control, that could create more off-hours and off-season traffic right from the get-go. And the two approaches aren't mutually exclusive.

 

--more retail space available...one cafe is not going to cut it (long lines!) and competition and variety and more leasing is a good thing.

 

...

 

What do you guys think?

I don't think they need to have more dedicated retail/food within the square itself. It's a small enough space that you could line the square with more quality retail in the existing buildings that surround PS.

 

Whatever new construction happens to close the gaping west section of the Square, we can all hope that it's the opposite of the vibrancy-killers that currently exist. And yes the existing buildings that can - should retrofit somehow if at all possible.

 

Best case (aka dream) scenario is a diverse and continuous shopping district that filters through and beyond both the river and PS side of Tower City.

 

 

--more retail space available...one cafe is not going to cut it (long lines!) and competition and variety and more leasing is a good thing.

 

...

 

What do you guys think?

I don't think they need to have more dedicated retail/food within the square itself. It's a small enough space that you could line the square with more quality retail in the existing buildings that surround PS.

 

Whatever new construction happens to close the gaping west section of the Square, we can all hope that it's the opposite of the vibrancy-killers that currently exist. And yes the existing buildings that can - should retrofit somehow if at all possible.

 

Best case (aka dream) scenario is a diverse and continuous shopping district that filters through and beyond both out and along the river and also PS side of Tower City that connects Euclid Ave, Warehouse, FEB, etc.

 

Why does Public Square need more retail? There is a casino and several stores along South Roadway/Euclid. And considerably more down Euclid toward East 4th. I'm all about better connectivity west of Public Square toward the Warehouse District, but it doesn't necessarily have to be on the square.

^How exactly could "you" line the square with quality retail?  Who pays the building owners to accept below market rents?  How do you ensure the individually owned buildings each participate?  What about buildings like the old federal building, Old Stone Church, old Society Bank Building, Key Tower, and 200 Public Square, which have no street-facing retail frontage?  Given that there will be a busy roadway separating the buildings from the square, how much life will that retail space add to the square itself?

 

Obviously adding more activity near the square is good for its vitality, but affordable restaurant/bar/cafe space on the square is a very practical step, in the city/county's control, that could create more off-hours and off-season traffic right from the get-go. And the two approaches aren't mutually exclusive.

 

I agree completely. And as unfortunate as it is, we have to work with what we have. We can look at pittsburgh for inspiration. Unfortunately Public Square will never be like Market Square, but it can be like Schenley Plaza!

 

 

Aerial before it was completed. The Porch restaurant filled the space to the right of the picture

 

 

Why does Public Square need more retail? There is a casino and several stores along South Roadway/Euclid. And considerably more down Euclid toward East 4th. I'm all about better connectivity west of Public Square toward the Warehouse District, but it doesn't necessarily have to be on the square.

 

Because retail = life. And retail owners = stakeholders in making sure the areas are clean, welcoming and overall attractive. Not only that, the leasing generates actual revenues for managing maintenance. It just makes so much sense.

 

I'd encourage you (and everyone) if you're unfamiliar to image search for Bryant Park in NYC to see such a great mix of retail livelihood and serene greenspace.

 

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/11/26/arts/27spare/articleLarge.jpg

I was about to mention Bryant Park. It's a little bit different in that it's a park and not a square, but it offers a great example of balancing tranquility and liveliness. It's one of my favorite parks. The number of food and drink stands mixed with retail/offices on the two smaller side streets and the Bryant Park Grill all combine to create an awesome space for people to utilize.

I was about to mention Bryant Park. It's a little bit different in that it's a park and not a square, but it offers a great example of balancing tranquility and liveliness. It's one of my favorite parks. The number of food and drink stands mixed with retail/offices on the two smaller side streets and the Bryant Park Grill all combine to create an awesome space for people to utilize.

 

Absolutely. And they've managed to create an enjoyable environment that serves all four seasons. 

 

http://missbinnyc.blogspot.com/2010/12/fire-pit.html

 

This could work so well for PS, especially considering the foot traffic going through there day after day.

Yeah I've been there in everything from the heat of summer to during the cold winter with snow everywhere and have always enjoyed the changes they make to accommodate different seasons. You feel sheltered from whatever seasonal element could potentially be making being outdoors uncomfortable which is why I think it always works so well.

Yeah I've been there in everything from the heat of summer to during the cold winter with snow everywhere and have always enjoyed the changes they make to accommodate different seasons. You feel sheltered from whatever seasonal element could potentially be making being outdoors uncomfortable which is why I think it always works so well.

 

Right. Which is one of the many reason's why we should have simply pointed our fingers at Bryant Park, and told the Powers That Be to just "do that."

 

Would've been so easy, and it could have saved the public how much in consulting fees lol.

Yeah I've been there in everything from the heat of summer to during the cold winter with snow everywhere and have always enjoyed the changes they make to accommodate different seasons. You feel sheltered from whatever seasonal element could potentially be making being outdoors uncomfortable which is why I think it always works so well.

 

Another good point you bring up; the design elements seem simple, yet comfortable and fully functional. The empty grass fields in the current plan that look nice in renderings could be meaningless, unutilized space for most of the year.

Yeah I've been there in everything from the heat of summer to during the cold winter with snow everywhere and have always enjoyed the changes they make to accommodate different seasons. You feel sheltered from whatever seasonal element could potentially be making being outdoors uncomfortable which is why I think it always works so well.

 

Another good point you bring up; the design elements seem simple, yet comfortable and fully functional. The empty grass fields in the current plan that look nice in renderings could be meaningless, unutilized space for most of the year.

Well put.  The proposed function of the square does not differ much from what it is now.  Just a renovated square rather than a relavent concept. 

Except that everything inside the perimeter roadways becomes a useful part of the square's programming.

Except that everything inside the perimeter roadways becomes a useful part of the square's programming.

What do you mean by the squares programming? 

 

There are "things" inside the square now.  I honestly do believe if the western side of the square was developed with a mixed use development prior to today, we would not even be having this discussion nor would the city be in the consideration phase of dumping millions into it.  Is the square the problem, or is it's surroundings what has caused it's demise?  I truely believe it's the latter.  BP office tower does not interact with it at all in my opinion, and Key is a life sucking office tower that is vacant on weekends. 

For special events, Superior will be closed through the square (in addition to permanently closing Ontario). If you're having a special event on the square, being on a street paved with brick or cobblestones through the square makes me feel like I'm in a park moreso than standing on asphalt striped for a roadway.

 

Even when Superior is open to traffic through the square, having it paved with brick or stone is an effective traffic-calming feature in the city's most pedestrian-active setting.

Even when Superior is open to traffic through the square, having it paved with brick or stone is an effective traffic-calming feature in the city's most pedestrian-active setting.

 

Main reason why they have to bring those pavers all the way through the Square, and not just in the middle.

Interesting thread everyone. Just to comment on a few prior points of view. Millennium is awesome, but a much bigger space than Public Square. And it has cost almost $500M. Yeah, a lot of money! Bryant park is very cool too. One of my favorite in New York and I do agree it would work really well in Cleveland.

For me the biggest miss on the new design (and I am a big James Corner fan) is the proposed structure for drinks/food. It's just way too small and doesn't cater for the fact that Cleveland is a really cold city a lot of the time. It really needs to be a bigger structure with indoor and outdoor space, and the capacity to open up completely when the weather is nice. And lots of outdoor heating so we can enjoy sitting outside as long as possible. And it would be great if someone like the people from Pour on Euclid could take it over and run the place. Just someone with passion and good taste would be a huge bonus!

San Francisco did a nice job with Union Square and added a really grear place to eat and drink, and I posted some pictures below. But what is especially interesting about Union Square is that it shows that you really can block off the entire area of Public Square and not cause traffic mayhem. If it can work in San Francisco (where they get a lot of downtown traffic) it can easily work in Cleveland. Mayor Jackson needs to trust his instincts on this one and just tell the RTA that he's blocking off Superior at Public Square. It would be so much better.

 

 

I was about to mention Bryant Park. It's a little bit different in that it's a park and not a square, but it offers a great example of balancing tranquility and liveliness. It's one of my favorite parks. The number of food and drink stands mixed with retail/offices on the two smaller side streets and the Bryant Park Grill all combine to create an awesome space for people to utilize.

 

Absolutely. And they've managed to create an enjoyable environment that serves all four seasons. 

 

http://missbinnyc.blogspot.com/2010/12/fire-pit.html

 

This could work so well for PS, especially considering the foot traffic going through there day after day.

 

On that subject it is interesting to note that much of the discussions here center around removing the buses and transit from Public Square.  Yet it's the buses and transit that provide much of the foot traffic that would be needed to make these Bryant Parkesque kiosks and coffee stands a success.    IMO there needs to be a design that is all encompassing.  Cleveland just doesn't have the foot traffic of NYC.  Public Square has always been our hub of commerce and transit.  We may very well have to keep it that way.

I agree wholeheartedly with that. There is one difference though that could be a tough hurdle in Cleveland. Transit in NYC is taken by about 60 percent of the population of the city. That's a huge, diverse group of people whereas in Cleveland we don't have that type of marketshare yet and there's still a stigma against transit. It isn't glamorous or romantic like it is in other cities. But integrating really well done transit into Public Square could be a win win situation in which there's foot traffic from transit while being a transit hub could do wonders towards making others consider using the buses/trains. A well done hub can do a lot towards changing one's perception of transit and Public Square seems like a logical place to start.

I was about to mention Bryant Park. It's a little bit different in that it's a park and not a square, but it offers a great example of balancing tranquility and liveliness. It's one of my favorite parks. The number of food and drink stands mixed with retail/offices on the two smaller side streets and the Bryant Park Grill all combine to create an awesome space for people to utilize.

 

Absolutely. And they've managed to create an enjoyable environment that serves all four seasons. 

 

http://missbinnyc.blogspot.com/2010/12/fire-pit.html

 

This could work so well for PS, especially considering the foot traffic going through there day after day.

 

On that subject it is interesting to note that much of the discussions here center around removing the buses and transit from Public Square.  Yet it's the buses and transit that provide much of the foot traffic that would be needed to make these Bryant Parkesque kiosks and coffee stands a success.    IMO there needs to be a design that is all encompassing.  Cleveland just doesn't have the foot traffic of NYC.  Public Square has always been our hub of commerce and transit.  We may very well have to keep it that way.

 

I could be wrong, but I think what many people  here are considering is removing transit from bisecting PS, not removing it entirely. 

Seeing how the PS side right across from the casino is just a gathering spot for rowdy patrons (not all of course but enough) I feel like bus stations should either be moved from the square, some busses should be moved elsewhere that usually stop there, or enforcement needs to clear out people just causing issues more often. Something needs to change because I find myself avoiding that part of the square and even catch the HL across from BP Tower. If I avoid that part of the square I'm sure other patrons do the same, maybe whenever the square is redone some ambassadors can be hired to regulate the area.

Seeing how the PS side right across from the casino is just a gathering spot for rowdy patrons (not all of course but enough) I feel like bus stations should either be moved from the square, some busses should be moved elsewhere that usually stop there, or enforcement needs to clear out people just causing issues more often. Something needs to change because I find myself avoiding that part of the square and even catch the HL across from BP Tower. If I avoid that part of the square I'm sure other patrons do the same, maybe whenever the square is redone some ambassadors can be hired to regulate the area.

 

There is some unfortunate truth to this statement.

Seeing how the PS side right across from the casino is just a gathering spot for rowdy patrons (not all of course but enough) I feel like bus stations should either be moved from the square, some busses should be moved elsewhere that usually stop there, or enforcement needs to clear out people just causing issues more often. Something needs to change because I find myself avoiding that part of the square and even catch the HL across from BP Tower. If I avoid that part of the square I'm sure other patrons do the same, maybe whenever the square is redone some ambassadors can be hired to regulate the area.

 

I hear you to a degree, but the larger part of me says: it's a big city, deal with it.  And don't forget the name of this area: Public Square; it's there for all people.  Now if they completely close off the square to all through traffic, ie. Superior and Ontario, which I prefer, the bus terminal is going to have to be moved.  But I don't advocate moving it simply because of some 'rowdy' people who are catching buses.  There are plenty of folks who are simply waiting for the bus and are perfectly legit.  And if we do create an attractive public place with benches and permanent wine/drink (among other) vendors as depicted in the above photos, it's up to the cops and Goodwill ambassador's to keep the peace and route the rowdies elsewhere... It was done on E. 4th -- a much different place than is being planned for PS, but the general idea is the same.

Something needs to change because I find myself avoiding that part of the square and even catch the HL across from BP Tower. If I avoid that part of the square I'm sure other patrons do the same

 

I have to agree. And most of us on here are guys, so it doesn't affect us as much, but I know several women who try to avoid Public Square since they can't walk through it without feeling uncomfortable, unsafe, and having guys yelling things out to them.

 

Office workers always tend to avoid that quadrant as well and typically stay on the northeast quadrant with the fountain if they go to Public Square at all. That happens to be the quadrant with space away from the sidewalk and with the least amount of bus stops.

 

Seeing how the PS side right across from the casino is just a gathering spot for rowdy patrons (not all of course but enough) I feel like bus stations should either be moved from the square, some busses should be moved elsewhere that usually stop there, or enforcement needs to clear out people just causing issues more often. Something needs to change because I find myself avoiding that part of the square and even catch the HL across from BP Tower. If I avoid that part of the square I'm sure other patrons do the same, maybe whenever the square is redone some ambassadors can be hired to regulate the area.

 

A touchy subject but true. I think if there were just some rules enforced, it would be ok. But it seems like the police etc. do nothing. At the very least get stricter on littering. Those areas of the square get absolutely covered in trash at the end of the day. I've asked this before but is the idea of an RTA transit center west of Public Square no longer being considered?

And don't forget the name of this area: Public Square; it's there for all people.  Now if they completely close off the square to all through traffic, ie. Superior and Ontario, which I prefer, the bus terminal is going to have to be moved.  But I don't advocate moving it simply because of some 'rowdy' people who are catching buses.  There are plenty of folks who are simply waiting for the bus and are perfectly legit.  And if we do create an attractive public place with benches and permanent wine/drink (among other) vendors as depicted in the above photos, it's up to the cops and Goodwill ambassador's to keep the peace and route the rowdies elsewhere... It was done on E. 4th -- a much different place than is being planned for PS, but the general idea is the same.

 

There is also truth to your statement but I want to point out that Public Square IS available to all people but it is NOT available to all people's behavior.  It is important to distinguish between the two concepts.

 

I walk by Public Square everyday and unfortunately it is not uncommon for me to see screaming matches between people (witnessed last Friday), fights between kids (witnessed last week and many times in the past), and general rowdiness.  To agree with DM4, I have also heard from women that it is not uncommon to be harassed when they walk through PS.  PS is certainly not a total disaster but it definitely has more bad behavior on display than most people are comfortable being around.

 

There is no doubt that the majority of people are just waiting for the bus and aren't harming anyone and I personally like the idea of the physical center of the city being a transit hub.  I think if we are going to make PS a transit hub AND an inviting city center, we are going to have to police much more strictly than we do now.

 

It would be great to have PS as selling piece for the City as it is a physical and psychological center.  Unfortunately, I try to avoid it if I am showing out-of-towners around the City or trying to convince my suburban friends to move downtown.  It would be shame to re-construct PS but be left with the same issues we currently have.

It would be great to have PS as selling piece for the City as it is a physical and psychological center.  Unfortunately, I try to avoid it if I am showing out-of-towners around the City or trying to convince my suburban friends to move downtown.  It would be shame to re-construct PS but be left with the same issues we currently have.

 

Reminding us that PS as it stands today is kinda awful.

Yeah, I love Cleveland, but Public Square is dreadful. A perfect example of "The Broken Window" theory. The idea being that if you let an area fall into disrepair that crime and anti-social behavior will soon follow. New York city dealt with this very issue in the 90's and completely turned around their city (in a great way) by operating a zero tolerance policy for petty crime (which included littering). Anybody who goes to New York city today will enjoy a safe and delightful place that is a joy to walk. Bryant Park in New York in the 80's was the haunt of drug dealers. Not revitalized until the early 90's. And now it is a public gem.

So I don't buy that this is a big city problem and people just need to deal with the litter and harassment that occurs every day on Public Square. We don't have to deal with it. We can, and should, change it. Public Square could be a wonderful place for everyone. It just needs a better design and for better policing of the area. 

 

I don't think clvlndr was saying we should JUST deal with people's behavior on that end of the square and move on.  He was reacting to the suggestion that having bus stops there is the cause of that behavior.  (correct me if I'm wrong, clvlndr.)  There's clearly some contributing factors there, but I stick with the camp that argues that transit is a necessary component to an active public space. 

 

Cincinnati has always had Government Square (transit center) right next to Fountain Square (public square) and it's always been a symbiotic relationship.  Are there problems with rowdy behavior?  At times, absolutely.  Has it prevented people from using Fountain Square?  Well, it did until they started putting regular enforcement in both places. 

 

Public Square absolutely has to be accessible by as many transit lines as possible to be the active city center it was intended to be.  Enforcement of rules by community ambassadors is just as necessary.

Mayor Jackson needs to trust his instincts on this one and just tell the RTA that he's blocking off Superior at Public Square. It would be so much better.

 

I'm pretty sure the complication from permanently closing off Superior through Public Square has more to do with the fact Superior is part of the federally designed roadway system. The Federal Highway Administration is a bigger barrier than GCRTA.

^ Its worth trying

Mayor Jackson needs to trust his instincts on this one and just tell the RTA that he's blocking off Superior at Public Square. It would be so much better.

 

I'm pretty sure the complication from permanently closing off Superior through Public Square has more to do with the fact Superior is part of the federally designed roadway system. The Federal Highway Administration is a bigger barrier than GCRTA.

 

I still don't completely buy that since Ontario was cut off and was also a US route (at least through the southern half).

Something needs to change because I find myself avoiding that part of the square and even catch the HL across from BP Tower. If I avoid that part of the square I'm sure other patrons do the same

 

I have to agree. And most of us on here are guys, so it doesn't affect us as much, but I know several women who try to avoid Public Square since they can't walk through it without feeling uncomfortable, unsafe, and having guys yelling things out to them.

 

Office workers always tend to avoid that quadrant as well and typically stay on the northeast quadrant with the fountain if they go to Public Square at all. That happens to be the quadrant with space away from the sidewalk and with the least amount of bus stops.

 

Bingeaux.  That's something that's easy to forget in a mostly male forum:  urban situations which may make a guy unconfortable are an order of magnitude moreso for women.  Especially since the types of people most likely to be causing the stupidity tend to be highly misogynistic.  Hell, what do you think made the skywalk so important?

 

What do you do about it?  Keep a couple cops on station.  Maybe run the horses through from time to time.  I'm a big believer of the value of horses where urban policing is concerned, regardless of the  modell piles.  I once commented down there that I'd rather deal with horse poop than human poop.

 

In many ways, downtown areas face the same issue a bar does.  Do you cater to the idiots, or make the women comfortable.

I still don't completely buy that since Ontario was cut off and was also a US route (at least through the southern half).

 

That's an important distinction to the feds, I think. We'll see.

I still don't completely buy that since Ontario was cut off and was also a US route (at least through the southern half).

 

That's an important distinction to the feds, I think. We'll see.

 

I will bring up the Fed-getting-in-our-way issue at the next Tea Party/Militia meeting. Right after the topic of paying 3-400.00 per scrawny dead tree is addressed. 

 

I will bring up the Fed-getting-in-our-way issue at the next Tea Party/Militia meeting. Right after the topic of paying 3-400.00 per scrawny dead tree is addressed. 

 

'Preciate it, pardner. Fergit yer commie school books. Gotta git yer gun to fight da Guvmint.

I don't think clvlndr was saying we should JUST deal with people's behavior on that end of the square and move on.  He was reacting to the suggestion that having bus stops there is the cause of that behavior.  (correct me if I'm wrong, clvlndr.)  There's clearly some contributing factors there, but I stick with the camp that argues that transit is a necessary component to an active public space. 

 

Cincinnati has always had Government Square (transit center) right next to Fountain Square (public square) and it's always been a symbiotic relationship.  Are there problems with rowdy behavior?  At times, absolutely.  Has it prevented people from using Fountain Square?  Well, it did until they started putting regular enforcement in both places. 

 

Public Square absolutely has to be accessible by as many transit lines as possible to be the active city center it was intended to be.  Enforcement of rules by community ambassadors is just as necessary.

 

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying...

 

... I'm also adding this caveat: I'm for relocating the bus stops for facilitating a large, unbroken (but Ontario & Superior) Public Square plaza.  Obviously, they couldn't exist in this kind of set up because simply moving them to the perimeter of this new square would create a traffic nightmare.  But I absolutely believe these bus terminals must be kept nearby and should not be shunted to some corner of downtown as some sort of: out of sight, out of mind maneuver to rid this nice "clean" square of the "rowdies." (and in some people's minds, that won't be the case, entirely, because what about the homeless attracted to all the seemingly prosperous types to the new leisure/retail driven square? ... but that's another story)...

 

Public Square has existed up as THE transit terminus for the region since before the Civil War. Remember all those interesting Public Square "pagoda" shelters for the seemingly zillions of streetcars in those old late 1800s/early 1900s B&W photos?  Building Union Station there as the RR/rapid transit terminal only heightened Public Square's transit-terminal status... The existing commuters and their buses must go somewhere... And keeping them nearby the rapid-rail hub under Tower City is imperative imho.  One solution is routing more buses along Prospect and Huron where entrances to Tower City exist -- yes, I can already hear some people groaning about shunting these folks to Tower City's backdoor as though they're somehow unworthy.  Hopefully that wouldn't be a big issue...

 

Of course converting the Health Line (down the road) to LRT and burying in a Huron Rd subway through TC then out the Det-Sup bridge could remove tons of buses from the center of town -- a la Boston's Green line as well as the unsuccessful (voted down) WWI Rapid Transit Commission proposal for Cleveland -- which would greatly facilitate a super walkable Public Square environment...

 

... but, oops, there I go stirring up trouble again...

I think a nicely designed and functional transit center adjacent to a renovated square would benefit both the square and the transit center.  Right now, it seems the square operates as a poorly designed transit center

 

 

I think a nicely designed and functional transit center adjacent to a renovated square would benefit both the square and the transit center.  Right now, it seems the square operates as a poorly designed transit center

 

 

 

Can't disagree. Wayfinding signs identifying landmark buildings (for reference) and bus locations by their route numbers and destinations would be a nice touch.

I think a nicely designed and functional transit center adjacent to a renovated square would benefit both the square and the transit center.  Right now, it seems the square operates as a poorly designed transit center

 

I think we probably all agree.  There's a nice parking lot on PS that would make for a great location for a transit center, retail, and high rise combination....  where are the billionaires when you need one?

 

I think we probably all agree.  There's a nice parking lot on PS that would make for a great location for a transit center, retail, and high rise combination....  where are the billionaires when you need one?

 

Well there's one billionaire nearby -- Dan Gilbert – whose Horseshoe Casino fronts PS.  The same Dan Gilbert who’s co-investing guzzillions to build an LRT line into a downtown Detroit that he is seemingly rebuilding singlehandedly… It would be nice if, here in Cleveland, he had more interest in (possibly investing in) transit as a tool to bring more gamblers into his casinos (hell, judging by RTA’s serious uptick in rail numbers, as well as the visible evidence of rail riders clutching their Total Rewards prizes on Rapid platforms heading home, it’s happening already.  But instead, Danny Boy is tearing town historic buildings and constructing skywalks at historic street corners to greater facilitate automobile drivers in the increasingly tight space of Gateway downtown – a space that will only get tighter once Public Square is rebuilt shunting thousands of cars away from it.

The Cincinnati Transit center is not REALLY next to Fountain Square.  There is a large 5/3rd building on that side of Fountain Square, and the buses and passengers really cannot be seen by anything going on in the Square.  People wanting to get to the Square are not bothered by the bus patrons.  Each road in the intersection of the Transit Center are one-way, away from Fountain Square, which means traffic is not bothered by the buses.  Something similar in Cleveland would be to move the transit center to the west side of PS and just off the square itself.  Have the buses go into this area instead of up and around Terminal Tower.

 

I think we probably all agree.  There's a nice parking lot on PS that would make for a great location for a transit center, retail, and high rise combination....  where are the billionaires when you need one?

 

Well there's one billionaire nearby -- Dan Gilbert – whose Horseshoe Casino fronts PS.  The same Dan Gilbert who’s co-investing guzzillions to build an LRT line into a downtown Detroit that he is seemingly rebuilding singlehandedly… It would be nice if, here in Cleveland, he had more interest in (possibly investing in) transit as a tool to bring more gamblers into his casinos (hell, judging by RTA’s serious uptick in rail numbers, as well as the visible evidence of rail riders clutching their Total Rewards prizes on Rapid platforms heading home, it’s happening already.  But instead, Danny Boy is tearing town historic buildings and constructing skywalks at historic street corners to greater facilitate automobile drivers in the increasingly tight space of Gateway downtown – a space that will only get tighter once Public Square is rebuilt shunting thousands of cars away from it.

 

*Watch this space.

*Watch this space.

 

Can you elaborate on this?

*Watch this space.

 

Can you elaborate on this?

 

No kidding! That's just plain ol' mean. :)

Let's just say that it sounds that the Group Plan Commission is right in being confident that they will have enough funding for the Public Square redesign, at least.  I wish I could elaborate more but this is based on comment from a friend -- who is a very reliable source on the topic -- letting something slip that he probably shouldn't have.  No clue on the timeline for any announcements, but it definitely bodes well for the redesign moving forward.

bus tunnel under the square

 

...*backs away slowly*

Joe Roman (I think it was he) mentioned at a City Club event within the last couple months that we could very well see a Public Square groundbreaking this fall, so does sound like the funding is falling into place. As of the date of that event, though, the status of Superior Ave was still subject to the city's traffic engineers.

Let's just say that it sounds that the Group Plan Commission is right in being confident that they will have enough funding for the Public Square redesign, at least.  I wish I could elaborate more but this is based on comment from a friend -- who is a very reliable source on the topic -- letting something slip that he probably shouldn't have.  No clue on the timeline for any announcements, but it definitely bodes well for the redesign moving forward.

 

Thanks, and that's good news. But I was hoping you were saying that Jacobs' Parking Lot On Public Square might soon see development! Oh well, I guess I'll have to take the Public Square redesign as the consolation prize. ;) Seriously, the Public Square redesign may in fact spur Jacobs or someone else to do something with that f-ing parking lot sooner rather than later.