^ Nice view! Looks like they've already made some headway on the northwest quadrant.

Nice job!

Thanks for sharing.

I've been looking around online for a construction cam of some sorts, but no luck.

They should repoint the Falcon Cam (http://www.falconcam-cmnh.org/news.php)

 

 

EDITED: Link to Falcon Cam page

I've been taking a picture daily from the 36th floor of Terminal Tower. I'll eventually upload them. My computer is a POS so it's quite the daunting task :)

I've been taking a picture daily from the 36th floor of Terminal Tower. I'll eventually upload them. My computer is a POS so it's quite the daunting task :)

 

That will be amazing!  Thank you!!  :clap: :clap: :clap:

I've been taking a picture daily from the 36th floor of Terminal Tower. I'll eventually upload them. My computer is a POS so it's quite the daunting task :)

 

From a fixed camera?  That would make a sweet time lapse GIF.

 

Why would they repoint the falcon camera?  From what I understand that is a popular part of the CMNH site, especially with the kidlets.  Is the construction expected to scare them off?

Came across this on the internet today.  This was apparently the plan for Public Square in 1895, before the Burnham Plan placed City Hall on Lakeside (1916).

 

 

 

WOW... I have never seen that before. Amazing concept

You guys need to buy some Cleveland history books! :) BTW and FYI: books are those things made of paper and bound together at the left side, so you have to manually turn pages over from right to left.... For additional user reference, call your parents or grandparents.  :whip:

KJP, do you have any pics of Public Square- Traffic Circle?

Wow, that 1895 city hall is awesome.  What a shame it never came to be.

So the 1895 plan was kind of a Philly concept? 

Here's some more info on the 1895 city hall concept from way upthread:

 

Speaking of public square. If you are not familiar with the website cool history of cleveland, check it out. http://coolhistoryofcleveland.blog.com/4384224/ But below is another example of cleveland not working together and opportunities lost. I mean how cool would this have looked on ps.

 

(from the website)

But the most amazing City Hall was the one never built. In 1895 the voters of Cleveland approved a Beaux Arts designed building to be built on the northern quadrants of Public Square. The most eloquent component of its design was the enormous arch spanning over Ontario Avenue for street cars to pass through safely. It was a most amazing and jaw-dropping design. Unfortunately, after one week of the official ground-breaking the protests from numerous Clevelanders (after voting approval on the project), it was decided not to continue and Cleveland had to wait another twenty years before it received a new City Hall.

 

 

So the 1895 plan was kind of a Philly concept? 

 

That's an amazing 19th Century PD Sunday Supplement photo...

 

As for the Philly parallel: same general idea, but different important in key aspects... Philly's is much bigger than Cleveland's would have been.  Keep in mind, in 1895, the very large Soldier's & Sailor's Monument on the SE quadrant was already built (the year before, in 1894) so there would have been much less space for CH in Public Square.  Philly's CH is touted as the largest municipal building in the world which I see no reason to doubt: it contains, the mayor's office, city council --  all the courts and temporary holding cells used to all be in this one building.  Now about 1/3rd of the courts are still there with most now in the Criminal Justice Center tower, along with the city jail, catty corner from CH... And of course Philly's sits on a European-style traffic round about so trolleys never cut through as they would have in ours... Philly's does have 4 directional arches that lead to a central courtyard, but they pedestrian scale.

 

Of course Philly's Center Square, which was set aside by Billy Penn for municipal purposes in the center of town, is the transit hub for Philly much like our Public Square is for Greater Cleveland: the 2 main subway lines cross partially underneath CH, the subway-surface trolleys' terminal circles beneath CH and Suburban Station, the busiest commuter rail hub, is a block away...  Philly's City Hall, though much criticized by some locals (Philadelphians complain about everything) is a magnificent structure imho... unfortunately it has been poorly maintained and is even junky looking in many interior halls and corridors. They a large wire mesh fence which they close at night to keep people out of the courtyard... They recently have finally finished off a nice makeover of their western plaza with large, walk-through fountains, permanent vendors, a new entrance to the subway tunnels and even an ice skating rink in winter.  For all its flaws (in Philly's upkeep, not it's initial execution), CH is a magnificent, very impressive edifice imho...

 

As was noted above, Daniel Burnham's Group Plan for Cleveland removed our primary governmental facilities away from our central square (our CH, btw, while smaller and less comprehensive than Philly's, is very impressive in its own right, and it's interior is 10-times better maintained than Philly's) ... While the Group Plan is monumental, our governmental center seems a tad isolated from the main commercial area of downtown, unlike Philadelphia's.

Here's some more info on the 1895 city hall concept from way upthread:

 

Speaking of public square. If you are not familiar with the website cool history of cleveland, check it out. http://coolhistoryofcleveland.blog.com/4384224/ But below is another example of cleveland not working together and opportunities lost. I mean how cool would this have looked on ps.

 

(from the website)

But the most amazing City Hall was the one never built. In 1895 the voters of Cleveland approved a Beaux Arts designed building to be built on the northern quadrants of Public Square. The most eloquent component of its design was the enormous arch spanning over Ontario Avenue for street cars to pass through safely. It was a most amazing and jaw-dropping design. Unfortunately, after one week of the official ground-breaking the protests from numerous Clevelanders (after voting approval on the project), it was decided not to continue and Cleveland had to wait another twenty years before it received a new City Hall.

And the protesters names were:

Zacharius Reed

Jesidia Krumholz

Rodolfo Bartimole

And all the posters at the yeoldeclevelandpress.com...

It's a cool building and all, but really I'm kind of glad we have Public Square still, not a giant building covering half of it.

I agree, Public Square is much better off as an open-air plaza. This city hall concept would have looked better if it was built on the border of Public Square instead, with the arch spanning Superior or Ontario. Of course, it might have drastically affected the future Union Terminal if it was built on the western edge of the Square. On the other hand this would have made for an awesome gateway into downtown for commuters coming in from the west on Superior.

KJP, do you have any pics of Public Square- Traffic Circle?

 

I'm not familiar with Public Square as a traffic circle.

 

And the protesters names were:

Zacharius Reed

Jesidia Krumholz

Rodolfo Bartimole

And all the posters at the yeoldeclevelandpress.com...

 

Nice. One of the early incarnations of The Legion Of Doom.

 

It's a cool building and all, but really I'm kind of glad we have Public Square still, not a giant building covering half of it.

 

And yet I agree with X. Public Square should be an open space. I'm probably one of the few who thinks the Soldiers and Sailors Monument shouldn't be there. But since it is, no need to move it. Assuming that moving it was even possible.

Currently photos are just a single photo taken from my iPhone once a day. I'm looking into time-lapse... but it looks pretty expensive (especially a weatherproof one). If I can make that happen, hopefully we can seamlessly transition upon completion of Public Square to a time-lapse of nuCLEus construction :). To be continued...

Is public access to the Soldiers and Sailors Monument cut off too?

 

If so, great opportunity to give it a good going over as well.

 

Actually the Soldiers and Sailors Monument was extensively renovated between 2008 and 2010 at the cost of 2 million dollars. Though, recently it was slightly damaged by a bunch of high-fiving drunk bros who thought climbing the structure was a good idea.

 

They have been charged in the crime:

 

http://www.cleveland.com/court-justice/index.ssf/2015/03/three_men_charged_in_connectio.html

"Those kids out there are making quite a mess in my front yard!"

 

 

 

 

Wow - that was quick. When was it last renovated? Late 1980's?

How has traffic been?

How has traffic been?

 

During the morning rush, it can take an extra minute or two for my bus to get around the Square to Euclid, but it hasn't been unbearable. I haven't seen any significant traffic back ups on Ontario or Superior either.

Thanks!

Wow - that was quick. When was it last renovated? Late 1980's?

 

Something like that. But what makes this different is that it is a major redesign of the street layout involving the square. And that hasn't been done in a century or more. That would be an interesting research effort. When was the last time the streets in the square were widened, or had their intersection curbs changed for bigger vehicles/streetcars, or when were the streets added through the square? I seem to recall old paintings from the early 1800s that the square didn't have any streets running through them. If so, this is a once-in-a-200-year change.

Wow - that was quick. When was it last renovated? Late 1980's?

 

Something like that. But what makes this different is that it is a major redesign of the street layout involving the square. And that hasn't been done in a century or more. That would be an interesting research effort. When was the last time the streets in the square were widened, or had their intersection curbs changed for bigger vehicles/streetcars, or when were the streets added through the square? I seem to recall old paintings from the early 1800s that the square didn't have any streets running through them. If so, this is a once-in-a-200-year change.

 

I recall reading that the square always had Superior and Ontario running through it, but that it was fenced off for like 10-15 years in the mid-1800s. I'll try to look for a source on that.

How has traffic been?

 

During the morning rush, it can take an extra minute or two for my bus to get around the Square to Euclid, but it hasn't been unbearable. I haven't seen any significant traffic back ups on Ontario or Superior either.

 

I know this isn't a scientific study but it sure seems like they could easily close off the square to all traffic and be fine.  I think allowing buses through is a mistake.  Nobody in our lifetime is going to pay the money to tear up the new road they are building for the buses to go through on Superior.

 

 

 

 

From 200 Public Sq.

How has traffic been?

 

During the morning rush, it can take an extra minute or two for my bus to get around the Square to Euclid, but it hasn't been unbearable. I haven't seen any significant traffic back ups on Ontario or Superior either.

 

I know this isn't a scientific study but it sure seems like they could easily close off the square to all traffic and be fine.  I think allowing buses through is a mistake.  Nobody in our lifetime is going to pay the money to tear up the new road they are building for the buses to go through on Superior.

 

I had originally agreed with this, but after seeing the traffic flow over the last couple weeks, I've seen that there is a lot of truth to the "ring of steel" concern from the traffic study. There are so many buses running around the perimeter that it makes crossing S Roadway quite daunting. This morning for example, I was on the E-Line trolley which was parked at the stop in front of the Horseshoe. Next to us was a Cleveland State Line bus and then next to them was a HealthLine bus. I do think there is value to having the buses run through the Square on Superior.

Love that last photo, especially!

Wow - that was quick. When was it last renovated? Late 1980's?

 

Something like that. But what makes this different is that it is a major redesign of the street layout involving the square. And that hasn't been done in a century or more. That would be an interesting research effort. When was the last time the streets in the square were widened, or had their intersection curbs changed for bigger vehicles/streetcars, or when were the streets added through the square? I seem to recall old paintings from the early 1800s that the square didn't have any streets running through them. If so, this is a once-in-a-200-year change.

 

I recall reading that the square always had Superior and Ontario running through it, but that it was fenced off for like 10-15 years in the mid-1800s. I'll try to look for a source on that.

Just yesterday, I was looking at a friend's copy of the September/October 1993 issue of Timeline Magazine.  There was an actual photograph of Public Square from 1865!  I'm pretty sure it showed the square as an actual square, with no cross streets, and had a fountain in the middle.  I was going to take a picture of it but couldn't get it to turn out.

 

I can't find a picture of it online but I did find that you can buy the magazine for $5.00 to check it out!

 

http://www.ohiohistorystore.com/Timeline-Magazine-105-September-October-1993-P7299.aspx

 

I would bet that KJP has a copy of this magazine stored under his bed or something though.  So maybe he can dig it up lol

I would be interested to see a study showing the ultimate impact Public Square has now that it is one complete square without any traffic flow. Is it possible to make a call 6 months into the project that the square can remain without any traffic cut through? I wonder if LAND Studio can set up an earthcam to document the project. I know I appreciate Turner for providing one of the convention hotel construction.

Public Square financing plan gets first-round approval from Cuyahoga County Council

By Andrew J. Tobias, Northeast Ohio Media Group

on March 24, 2015 at 7:49 PM, updated March 24, 2015 at 8:50 PM

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A Cuyahoga County Council committee on Tuesday gave preliminary approval to a plan for the county to help finance a $32 million overhaul of Public Square in downtown Cleveland.

 

Council's Committee of the Whole, made up of all 11 council members, voted unanimously to send County Executive Armond Budish's plan to the full council for a final vote. The proposed legislation would authorize borrowing up to $13 million for the project, which would close the square to non-bus traffic to form a park-like area.

 

But Nate Kelly, deputy chief of staff of economic development for Budish, said the amount borrowed likely would be closer to $10 million. After factoring in borrowing costs, the amount for Public Square would be around $7.5 million.

 

MORE:

http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2015/03/public_square_financing_plan_gets_first-round_approval_from_cuyahoga_county_council.html

Transit making its way around a busy Public Square yesterday....

 

 

 

Wow - that was quick. When was it last renovated? Late 1980's?

 

Something like that. But what makes this different is that it is a major redesign of the street layout involving the square. And that hasn't been done in a century or more. That would be an interesting research effort. When was the last time the streets in the square were widened, or had their intersection curbs changed for bigger vehicles/streetcars, or when were the streets added through the square? I seem to recall old paintings from the early 1800s that the square didn't have any streets running through them. If so, this is a once-in-a-200-year change.

 

I recall reading that the square always had Superior and Ontario running through it, but that it was fenced off for like 10-15 years in the mid-1800s. I'll try to look for a source on that.

Just yesterday, I was looking at a friend's copy of the September/October 1993 issue of Timeline Magazine.  There was an actual photograph of Public Square from 1865!  I'm pretty sure it showed the square as an actual square, with no cross streets, and had a fountain in the middle.  I was going to take a picture of it but couldn't get it to turn out.

 

I can't find a picture of it online but I did find that you can buy the magazine for $5.00 to check it out!

 

http://www.ohiohistorystore.com/Timeline-Magazine-105-September-October-1993-P7299.aspx

 

I would bet that KJP has a copy of this magazine stored under his bed or something though.  So maybe he can dig it up lol

 

OK, so here is what I was talking about.

 

Public Square as a square in 1859!

 

 

Seneca Street. Cool name.

 

Also interesting to see the Ohio Canal.

c/o @TowerLightsCLE

 

Moses Cleaveland is on the move. Probably back to Connecticut, heh.

 

 

^Moses gets around.  This will be his 3rd move IIRC.

^ More like Moses LEAVELAND, am I right?

 

I'm here all the week.

Hahaha!!!!!

^Moses gets around.  This will be his 3rd move IIRC.

 

Trying to confuse the pigeons?

 

Trying to confuse the pigeons?

 

Birds of a feather flock together....

I am kind of baffled by the wall of steel argument against closing the square in both directions. Those are buses. Not trains. Buses. If there are too many of them arriving at the same, adjust the routes and schedules.

I contacted LAND-Studio to ask what the final design for the cafe will be. Their response is that it isn't completely designed yet.

Video: Demolition of Cleveland Public Square continues

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2015/04/video_demolition_of_cleveland.html#incart_river

They should revisit  the traffic studies now that Public Square is completely closed.  The video shows that traffic is flowing just fine now that everyone is used to it.  Anyway for the Group Plan to adjust the design to allow the united quadrants

They should revisit  the traffic studies now that Public Square is completely closed.  The video shows that traffic is flowing just fine now that everyone is used to it.  Anyway for the Group Plan to adjust the design to allow the united quadrants

 

People are amazingly adaptive to the loss of roadway capacity, be it a planned loss (like Public Square or a road diet) or an unplanned one (like the earthquaked-destroyed Embarcadero Freeway or the tanker fire in 2007 that destroyed part of the MacArthur Maze in Oakland). People adjusted by taking other routes, taking transit, telecommuting or just not making a non-essential errand run etc.

^ Right, but the issue here isn't so much private vehicles, but instead public transit buses.

^ Right, but the issue here isn't so much private vehicles, but instead public transit buses.

 

The issue with transit vehicles wasn't people getting used to where to board, etc. The issue was the cost to GCRTA of the additional service hours (at $135+ per service-hour) from so many buses taking a little extra distance that it added up to a significant expense to GCRTA over an entire year.